Sears and Kmart - Defense Free Zones

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We-the-People wrote:

eye95 wrote:

Suggestion: someone should start a thread containing corporate policy letters and emails and get it pinned.

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I think that would be a GREAT idea to have for the main forum for any and all of the major chains that operate nationwide and/or over large regions (like I know people on the West Coast have never heard of a Piggly Wiggly). Then each state could sticky any major chains that operate just in their state.

Let's not forget to include such chains as banks, sporting goods stores (BassPro, Sportsmans warehouse, etc), Real Estate agencies (ReMax, Century 21, etc) and all the other possibilities.

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There is already something like this started in the MI sub forum

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/40385.html

I think a national database would be great! (most of the stores in the MI thread are nationwide)

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I was in a KMart store on Saturday 19 June 2010 carrying my Glock 22 fully loaded and safely holstered on my hip as I always do, everywhere I go. I was approached by a man who identified himself as the manager. He asked if I was a police officer, and I kindly responded, "no." He then asked me to remove my weapon and exit the store. I informed him that I was not going to un-holster a loaded weapon in a crowded store as it was inherently unsafe, but that I would leave in accordance with the law. He told me I couldn't carry in a Kmart. I told him that legally I could, but his store policy just wouldn't let me (as his store sold no alcohol). He followed me out.

This is just another example of a company that is dead-set to disarm their customers and force them to shop at the mercy of any whack-job that decides to shoot the place up. They cannot protect you as you shop, but they insist that you cannot protect yourself.

I will no longer shop at KMart or Sears if at all possible. I refuse to give money to an anti-American corporation that forces its customers to be victims-in-waiting.

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You need to e-mail Sears Holding Corp with the details. Who, what, where, when. NAMES, the store number or location, etc.

I wrote an e-mail to their BlueRibbon Customer service myself (Sunday AM) and I got a reply in my e-mail this morning. It was very similar (only the contact person was different) and specifically states that openly carrying is permitted if allowed by law. My letter was asking abotu BOTH Sears and Kmart as they are both under Sears Holding Corp.

Put the manager in their proper place!!!



CUT AND PASTE OF MY E-MAIL TO THEM:

From: B_____________.com]
Sent: Sun 6/20/2010 1:28 AM
To: Blueribbonservice2
Subject: Confirmation of firearms policy


I recently read of some troubling circumstances which occurred in a Sears store that were apparently resolved/clarified with your assistance. As the issue is important to me, I am writing you to obtain independent verification that what I read (on an internet forum site) is factual and can, therefore, be relied upon for my own use.

Specifically, the issue at hand is the corporate policy of Sears Holdings Corporation as regards customers who lawfully carry firearms in Sears and K-Mart stores. According to the internet "source" the official policy is to allow the "open carrying" (in plain sight) of firearms, by customers, when state law allows it.

Your anticipated assistance in this matter is greatly appreciated.

Bruce _______
________, Oregon



CUT AND PASTE OF THEIR REPLYRECEIVED THE NEXT BUSINESS DAY:

Mr. C_____,
My name is Robert Plyler and I represent the executive office inside of Sears Holdings Corp. I have received your E mail and I have built you a case in reference to the E mail. Your case number is ###### and my telephone number is 888-266-4043 ext 38 with office hours of 9:00 Am to 6:00 Pm central standard time Monday thru Friday. I can discuss the matter with you firther if you would like, but I would need a telehpne number to contact you. Here is the corprate policy of carrying a fire arm inside of Sears store
Our corporate policy regarding customers who openly carry firearms on our store premises is that as long as the law of the state in which our store is located legally permits the open carrying of firearms (i.e. carrying a firearm on one's person in plain sight), customers will be permitted to openly carry firearms within our stores.


If there are any further questions please contact me and I will be more than happy to assist you in any way possible. I am closing your case out but feel free to contact me with any question. I do thank you and we all appreciate your business inside of Sears Holdings Corporation.

Robert Plyler
Blue Ribbon case Manager
888-266-4043 ext 38

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elevenpastsix wrote:

I was in a KMart store on Saturday 19 June 2010 carrying my Glock 22 fully loaded and safely holstered on my hip as I always do, everywhere I go. I was approached by a man who identified himself as the manager. He asked if I was a police officer, and I kindly responded, "no." He then asked me to remove my weapon and exit the store. I informed him that I was not going to un-holster a loaded weapon in a crowded store as it was inherently unsafe, but that I would leave in accordance with the law. He told me I couldn't carry in a Kmart. I told him that legally I could, but his store policy just wouldn't let me (as his store sold no alcohol). He followed me out.

This is just another example of a company that is dead-set to disarm their customers and force them to shop at the mercy of any whack-job that decides to shoot the place up. They cannot protect you as you shop, but they insist that you cannot protect yourself.

I will no longer shop at KMart or Sears if at all possible. I refuse to give money to an anti-American corporation that forces its customers to be victims-in-waiting.

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Please take a look at the post on page 2 where an email from Sear Senior Councel was posted, stating that OC is now accepted by the corporation if it is legal in the state the store is located in. Sears Holdings Corporation owns Kmart, so you can print out that email next time you go.

Right now, this is no longer a policy issue, but an education issue. The word just hasnt filtered down to the lower managers.

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"Paintsnow" and "We The People" are both correct. This will continue to happen until the managers and staff of all the Sears and Kmart stores are educated on the new Policy. It may take some time but it will happen.

The same kinds of things still happen on occasion at Walmart, Home Depot and Lowes. Yet those three companies changed their policy quite a while ago. It is all about getting the staff educated on the actual store policy!

I have a print out that has the policies of a bunch of stores on it, when I know I am going to go to those stores I throw that piece of paper in my pocket in case I get hassled for OCing there. If they stop me or give me a hard time I speak to a manager and show them their own company policy and ask that they educate their staff (or sometimes themselves). Then, when I get home, I do what "We The People" said and I write a note to the corp. office with their name, store, store number, position and anything else I can to make sure the corp office contacts them and sets them straight.

There is an old phrase that says.... If it's worth doing it isn't going to be "easy".... Well to me educating the uneducated on gun laws and policies is worth doing! so I will do what it takes to do it!

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I would add that in instances where corporate policy isn't known to the OC community, go up the "chain of command" only so far as necessary to get the "correct" answer.

If you go straight to the top and they say "no" you have no further options. If you go up just far enough to get a "yes" then you can go about your business and at such time as you have to go higher you can present the "history of safely allowing Open Carry" IN THEIR FACILITIES.

That's just my opinion. Certainly however, if corporate policy is known and established to be OC friendly, by all means go straight to them.

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I can't tell you how many people I talked to at Sears that said things like... "NO you can't carry a gun in our stores... Well I would assume that's the policy... No I don't actually know that is the policy but anybody knows that not just anyone can carry a gun... I am located in (this varied) California, Chicago, New York City..."

So the problem I had was in "going up the chain" I hit all the people that wanted to give me their opinion on whether or not it was OK to carry in their stores. I would politely stop them and say "I am looking for the actual corporate policy, people in different states have different opinions on this as the laws are different. So I need to find out the Sears corp policy" in 6 call to the corporate office I was transferred 22 times, because the person would give me their opinion then say, "I don't know the actual policy"

The reason I went to the top (even after getting a few opinions that were PRO Open carry) is because I knew going back to a store you get kicked out of with an opinion does nothing... Going back with a solid answer from the top of the pile will carry weight!

Another reason was because if I had found out Sears did NOT allow OC (and had documented proof from a top tier exect.) then I would have kept the push going to Boycott Sears all together. Frankly I don't care what mid level people say, if it's not the actual policy it means nothing... I don't care if a certain store within a corp will let me shop there (maybe they have a pro carry manager, or the don't have signs posted) but still have a Corp policy against it... I am NOT SHOPPING THERE because as a corporation they are anti gun (does that make sense?)

It is like in a war if you take a city, don't stop fighting the country you are in because you have control of the city... Keep pushing on until the war is over!

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I'll take a look at it! Thanks to everyone who has replied.

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TFred wrote:

I didn't know anyone still did go to Sears or K-Mart...

TFred

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I didn't know there was still a K mart or Sears!

To whom it may concern,

I am a Nevada resident, a state in which the open carry of firearms is protected by the United States and Nevada constitution. While I am aware and fully appreciate your right to exclude me from your premises on the basis that I am exercising my right to be armed, I hope you will fully support my right to spend my money else ware. This is a difficult economic time, and Every customer is important. No business can afford to lose even a single customer especially if that customer has done nothing wrong. If anything, Sears and K-Mart stores should be welcoming armed law abiding citizens as we tend to have a greater disposable income than many other customers. We also represent a valuable deterrent against crime. Who in their right mind would target a store for criminal activity when it is common knowledge that armed law abiding citizens frequent that establishment?

You have an obligation to your shareholders to facilitate as many customers to lawfully do business in your retail stores as possible. You exclusion of law abiding customers is counter to every business principal I know of. Until I receive a response stating that you have completely reversed your decision to exclude armed law abiding citizens from your stores, I will take my money to your competition and vocally encourage as many others to do so as well. I have also reported your company to a number of consumer advocate groups who will pass on my sentiments to like minded consumers who will likely also take their business to your competitors.

I look forward to news of your companies reversal of this policy or the announcement of its bankruptcy filing.

Very respectfully,

[me]

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I sent my letter

Nevada carrier said:

I sent my letter

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Ummmmmm, did you bother to read the entire thread before firing off a letter about a non-existant matter?

Quote:
Hello,

Its Emerald, your case manager, and this is the Sears cooperate policy regarding fire arms. Please call or email me to confirm you have gotten this information. Your case number is xxxxxxx.


Subject: RE: Request for fire arm/weapon policy


Here is the response from Sears Senior Counsel:


Our corporate policy regarding customers who openly carry firearms on our store premises is that as long as the law of the state in which our store is located legally permits the open carrying of firearms (i.e. carrying a firearm on one's person in plain sight), customers will be permitted to openly carry firearms within our stores.


Emerald Sloan
Blue Ribbon Service Case Manager
Sears Holdings Corporation
Toll Free: 1-888-266-4043 extension 75
Email: BlueRibbonService2@searshc.com

Schedule: Monday - Saturday 8:00 AM - 5:00 PM (CST) off Wednesday and Sunday
I have removed my case number (as it is attached at SEARS to my email, home address and phone number through my old SEARS account)

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Just wondering.

tnhawk said:

TFred wrote:
I didn't know there was still a K mart or Sears!

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Sears bought K-mart out, kinda like the government and GM mess. They where bankrupt and sears bought them for cheap, just not with out tax dollars.

We-the-People said:

eye95 wrote:

I think that would be a GREAT idea to have for the main forum for any and all of the major chains that operate nationwide and/or over large regions (like I know people on the West Coast have never heard of a Piggly Wiggly). Then each state could sticky any major chains that operate just in their state.

Let's not forget to include such chains as banks, sporting goods stores (BassPro, Sportsmans warehouse, etc), Real Estate agencies (ReMax, Century 21, etc) and all the other possibilities.

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Off-topic, but FYI there used to be (many years ago) Piggly Wiggly stores on the West Coast.

Ummmmmm, did you bother to read the entire thread before firing off a letter about a non-existant matter?

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I did read the entire thread and after the response you quoted, I also read that there were still incidents of people being asked to leave because they were armed. Obviously they need the point driven home a little more.

ecocks said:

As for K-Mart, LOL, are they even still in business? Take your money to Walmart and put the blue light boobs outta' business.

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Yes, but struggling, as is Target. I do spread things around, though, both to help maintain the competition (which helps keep prices down) as well as to shop each chain's strengths. For example, Target has an extensive line of kitchenware. Wal-Mart's, by comparison, sucks. K-Mart is probably best in terms of really cheap clothing, such as playground wear for kids.

Toad said:

I stopped buying tools from Sears a long time ago...(is there any other reason to go there) I noticed that over time their tools would break more and more with less and less force. I don't care if it is a unconditional guarantee I want tools that don't break easily...running back and forth to get them replaced is a pain.
Now that I know their policy I have no intentions of ever going back.

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Craftsman are made in China now. The forges where they were made (LaForge) have all been shut down.

jhco50 said:

Craftsman are made in China now. The forges were they were made (LaForge) have all been shut down.

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The Chairman of Sears Holding--the guy who was at the helm when the Sears/K-Mart merger was effected, and the guy who was behind off-shoring almost EVERYTHING that Sears sells (including Craftsman Tools) is Edward S. "Eddie" Lampert. He graduated from Yale in 1984, was a member of Skull and Bones, interned at Goldman Sachs, and in 2006 was the richest man in Connecticut, with an estimated personal net worth of $3.8 Billion.

He is also the CEO of ESL Investments, a private hedge fund, and they are the largest shareholder of Sear Holding. ESL also has investment ties to Citicorp, Geffen, Dell, Ziff-Davis, and Loews.

I don't mean nothin', I'm just sayin'...


I hope he can't sleep at night, knowing he has personally contributed to the massive deindustrialization of the US, the destruction of millions of jobs, lives, and families, and the decapitation of the working middle class.

I pray that Mr. Lampert's hard work will someday be rewarded with everything he truly deserves...

Dreamer said:

The Chairman of Sears Holding--the guy who was at the helm when the Sears/K-Mart merger was effected, and the guy who was behind off-shoring almost EVERYTHING that Sears sells (including Craftsman Tools) is Edward S. "Eddie" Lampert. He graduated from Yale in 1984, was a member of Skull and Bones, interned at Goldman Sachs, and in 2006 was the richest man in Connecticut, with an estimated personal net worth of $3.8 Billion.

He is also the CEO of ESL Investments, a private hedge fund, and they are the largest shareholder of Sear Holding. ESL also has investment ties to Citicorp, Geffen, Dell, Ziff-Davis, and Loews.

I don't mean nothin', I'm just sayin'...


I hope he can't sleep at night, knowing he has personally contributed to the massive deindustrialization of the US, the destruction of millions of jobs, lives, and families, and the decapitation of the working middle class.

I pray that Mr. Lampert's hard work will someday be rewarded with everything he truly deserves...

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The title of this thread is a bit misleading. If you are thinking that K-Mart and Sears are gun-unfriendly, read the whole thread.

SCJeffro said:

skidmark wrote:
According to what the "Director of customer service" told me on the phone (after calling them regarding the email) I was told that Sears (and Kmart being part of Sears Holdings Corp.) have a very strict NO smoking, NO Alcohol and NO Firearms policy. That is, they "DO NOT allow any of the three on their property whether it be Employees or Customers." Obviously this was a statement and not a written policy but it did come from someone at Sears claiming to be the end all person in the customer service management chain.

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Did they have an E-mail @sears.com or something =p ? If not your "Director" was probably some shift team leader lol.