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Thread: Can you legally posess a copy of your CT carry permit?

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    In a defensive use of a firearm the weapon will be taken as evidence. Recent news stories reported that the individual involved in the New Haven Wooster Square "incident" had his permit taken by New Haven Police.

    On face value alone this does not sound like revocation of the permit, only the fact that the police took possession of the permit. Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Connecticut law requires the permit be carried if you are carrying your weapon? So by default without physically possessing a permit one can no longer carry.

    My thoughts are; if legal it would be an excellent idea to have an additional permit in a safe place for a "rainy day". That way one could legally carry if they so desired.

    Thoughts?

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    Wouldn't it just be better to educate the police departments that it is illegal for them to confiscate your permit to begin with?
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    JohnO wrote:
    My thoughts are; if legal it would be an excellent idea to have an additional permit in a safe place for a "rainy day". That way one could legally carry if they so desired.
    What is an "additional permit"? Do you mean that you would make a photocopy of your permit and keep that to use in the situation that your permit is seized? This would not work. When you go to buy a pistol, you are required to present your permit, not a piece of paper showing a copy of your permit.

    No vendor could, would, or shoudl accept anything other than the permit itself. After all, who is to say that you have a photocopy because your permit was revoked, for cause, in accordance with the law? A vendor who sells to someonw without a permit violates the law.

    As Rich said, the police are not empowered under CT law to confiscate permits and should be educated about this fact. I would refuse to hand over my permit to an officer until they handcuffed me and then sort it out before a judge with an emergency motion for replevin.

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    Just hope your hearing isn't before Judge Norko as you probably won't get the gun back either.

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    GunTotingLawyer wrote:
    JohnO wrote:
    My thoughts are; if legal it would be an excellent idea to have an additional permit in a safe place for a "rainy day". That way one could legally carry if they so desired.
    What is an "additional permit"? Do you mean that you would make a photocopy of your permit and keep that to use in the situation that your permit is seized? This would not work. When you go to buy a pistol, you are required to present your permit, not a piece of paper showing a copy of your permit.

    No vendor could, would, or shoudl accept anything other than the permit itself. After all, who is to say that you have a photocopy because your permit was revoked, for cause, in accordance with the law? A vendor who sells to someonw without a permit violates the law.

    As Rich said, the police are not empowered under CT law to confiscate permits and should be educated about this fact. I would refuse to hand over my permit to an officer until they handcuffed me and then sort it out before a judge with an emergency motion for replevin.
    I should have been more clear. I mean going to DPS in Middletown and paying for an additional permit.

    Yes it would be better to educate the police, but I am talking real world where the police do as they please.

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    JohnO wrote:
    I should have been more clear. I mean going to DPS in Middletown and paying for an additional permit.
    The law does not provide for DPS issuing a second permit and I doubt that they would. If you plan on trying this, please report back with the results of your inquiry/attempt.

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    JohnO wrote:
    Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Connecticut law requires the permit be carried if you are carrying your weapon? So by default without physically possessing a permit one can no longer carry.
    True, the law does state that. However, failure to possess your permit on your person while carrying is only a $35 fine. Hardly an amount that would break the bank for most people who have had their permits illegally confiscated and are awaiting it's return by DPS.

    It's a better idea to get an Eligibility Certificate so you can go to the nearest gun store and replace the firearm that is now in police custody.

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    Rich B wrote:
    Wouldn't it just be better to educate the police departments that it is illegal for them to confiscate your permit to begin with?
    Yes.

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    gluegun wrote:
    True, the law does state that. However, failure to possess your permit on your person while carrying is only a $35 fine. Hardly an amount that would break the bank for most people who have had their permits illegally confiscated and are awaiting it's return by DPS.

    It's a better idea to get an Eligibility Certificate so you can go to the nearest gun store and replace the firearm that is now in police custody.
    Good catch gluegun. I would still caution against it though. Carrying after your permit has been taken -- even illegally -- would probably be seen as adding fuel to the fire when/if DPS considers rescinding your permit. I completely agree with your suggestion that people get an EC.

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    gluegun wrote:
    However, failure to possess your permit on your person while carrying is only a $35 fine.
    Somewhat off topic, but I mentioned this to the Lt in Wallingford I talked to yesterday and he insisted this is in fact $90. Has it changed or is he misinformed?
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    Rich B wrote:
    Somewhat off topic, but I mentioned this to the Lt in Wallingford I talked to yesterday and he insisted this is in fact $90. Has it changed or is he misinformed?
    Conn. Gen. Stat. § 29-35:

    (b) The holder of a permit issued pursuant to section 29-28 shall carry such permit upon one's person while carrying such pistol or revolver.

    Conn. Gen. Stat. § 29-37:

    (c) Any person violating any provision of subsection (b) of section 29-35 shall have committed an infraction and shall be fined thirty-five dollars.

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    GunTotingLawyer wrote:
    JohnO wrote:
    My thoughts are; if legal it would be an excellent idea to have an additional permit in a safe place for a "rainy day". That way one could legally carry if they so desired.
    What is an "additional permit"? Do you mean that you would make a photocopy of your permit and keep that to use in the situation that your permit is seized? This would not work. When you go to buy a pistol, you are required to present your permit, not a piece of paper showing a copy of your permit.

    No vendor could, would, or shoudl accept anything other than the permit itself. After all, who is to say that you have a photocopy because your permit was revoked, for cause, in accordance with the law? A vendor who sells to someonw without a permit violates the law.

    As Rich said, the police are not empowered under CT law to confiscate permits and should be educated about this fact. I would refuse to hand over my permit to an officer until they handcuffed me and then sort it out before a judge with an emergency motion for replevin.

    So may one CARRY with a photocopy? For example, in PA we are allowed to make a photocopy of our license and carry that.

    That way, if you lose your wallet etc. you don't lost your actual license.

    or in the case of the OP, when a PD illegal takes the permit they would only be taking the copy.
    States dont have rights. People do.

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    mrjam2jab wrote:
    So may one CARRY with a photocopy?* For example, in PA we are allowed to make a photocopy of our license and carry that.

    *That way, if you lose your wallet etc. you don't lost your actual license.*

    or in the case of the OP, when a PD illegal takes the permit they would only be taking the copy.
    Regardless of whether the law would be OK with that, with how misinformed our local LEOs are, they would likely levy the 35 dollar fine against you.

    But that might a good part of the argument anyway. If police want to illegally confiscate permits, would it make sense to not carry your permit (and perhaps just a copy) and just take the 35 dollar fine? I would gladly pay 35 dollars to keep my permit, plus you could likely fight the fine off easily as well.

    Of course it is just better to make the police stop doing illegal things in the first place...
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    Possible scenario: One makes a trip to DPS in Middletown and requests duplicate copy of their carry permit because they have lost or misplaced their permit.

    Upon returning home (or shortly thereafter) the lost permit is miraculously found and then squirreled away for safe keeping.

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    GunTotingLawyer wrote:
    Rich B wrote:
    Somewhat off topic, but I mentioned this to the Lt in Wallingford I talked to yesterday and he insisted this is in fact $90. Has it changed or is he misinformed?
    Conn. Gen. Stat. § 29-35:

    (b) The holder of a permit issued pursuant to section 29-28 shall carry such permit upon one's person while carrying such pistol or revolver.

    Conn. Gen. Stat. § 29-37:

    (c) Any person violating any provision of subsection (b) of section 29-35 shall have committed an infraction and shall be fined thirty-five dollars.

    I thought that I read somewhere on the CGS site that it was $70.00. I know that it used to be $35.00, and then I looked it up in that last few months that thought I saw $70.00 for carrying while not having your permit on you. I thought it just doubled along with everything else last October 1. But, I just looked it up here and it says $35.00: http://www.cga.ct.gov/2005/pub/Chap529.htm#Sec29-37.htm

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    You are reading an outdated statute. The fees were doubled for permits.

    Fines for not having you permit while carrying remained the same.

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    Edward Peruta wrote:
    Fines for not having you permit while carrying remained the same.
    I was informed in an off topic discussion with a Lt in Wallingford that the fine had doubled to 70 bucks in Oct. 2009. I still cannot find any reference to this, but he says he has it.

    Then again, I have yet to find anyone there that understands any basic CT law, so I am not sure why I take any value in what he is telling me.
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    Rich B wrote:
    Edward Peruta wrote:
    Fines for not having you permit while carrying remained the same.
    I was informed in an off topic discussion with a Lt in Wallingford that the fine had doubled to 70 bucks in Oct. 2009. I still cannot find any reference to this, but he says he has it.

    Then again, I have yet to find anyone there that understands any basic CT law, so I am not sure why I take any value in what he is telling me.
    Here is a link to all laws that changed in Title 29 that changed between Jan 1, 2009 and Jan 1, 2010: http://www.cga.ct.gov/2010/sup/chap529.htm

    You'll notice that 29-37 Penalties, isn't included. It was not changed when the budget was passed. The fine is still $35.

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    mrjam2jab wrote:
    GunTotingLawyer wrote:
    JohnO wrote:
    My thoughts are; if legal it would be an excellent idea to have an additional permit in a safe place for a "rainy day". That way one could legally carry if they so desired.
    What is an "additional permit"? Do you mean that you would make a photocopy of your permit and keep that to use in the situation that your permit is seized? This would not work. When you go to buy a pistol, you are required to present your permit, not a piece of paper showing a copy of your permit.

    No vendor could, would, or shoudl accept anything other than the permit itself. After all, who is to say that you have a photocopy because your permit was revoked, for cause, in accordance with the law? A vendor who sells to someonw without a permit violates the law.

    As Rich said, the police are not empowered under CT law to confiscate permits and should be educated about this fact. I would refuse to hand over my permit to an officer until they handcuffed me and then sort it out before a judge with an emergency motion for replevin.

    So may one CARRY with a photocopy? For example, in PA we are allowed to make a photocopy of our license and carry that.

    That way, if you lose your wallet etc. you don't lost your actual license.

    or in the case of the OP, when a PD illegal takes the permit they would only be taking the copy.
    The law says you must have your permit on you, not a photocopy of it. There's no law saying it's illegal to make/have a photocopy of your permit, but the copy in no way is a substitute for your permit.

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    Rich B wrote:
    I was informed in an off topic discussion with a Lt in Wallingford that the fine had doubled to 70 bucks in Oct. 2009. I still cannot find any reference to this, but he says he has it.
    The law I cited above tells the entire story. The is $35 and there is not even a bill in the legislature proposing to raise it. I bet that Ed is correct here - the LEO is confused between the penalty and the cost of obtaining a permit.

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    GunTotingLawyer wrote:
    The law I cited above tells the entire story.* The is $35 and there is not even a bill in the legislature proposing to raise it.* I bet that Ed is correct here - the LEO is confused between the penalty and the cost of obtaining a permit.
    Yeah, I cannot find anything about it. This is the same guy who told me that if I am open carrying, he can just say he is investigating me as a suspicious person and arrest me for interfering if I don't comply with his request for my permit.

    So I am not real impressed with his knowledge of the law...
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    Rich B wrote:
    This is the same guy who told me that if I am open carrying, he can just say he is investigating me as a suspicious person and arrest me for interfering if I don't comply with his request for my permit.
    Actually, this is the ambiguity I was talking about with regard to "stop and ID" power of the police. I am reading through mountains of case law to determine whether there is truth in that statement. At first blush it feels wrong, but after doing some research, I can tell you that it is not a clear answer. I will keep you posted on my research.

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    GunTotingLawyer wrote:
    Actually, this is the ambiguity I was talking about with regard to "stop and ID" power of the police.* I am reading through mountains of case law to determine whether there is truth in that statement.* At first blush it feels wrong, but after doing some research, I can tell you that it is not a clear answer.* I will keep you posted on my research.
    I am certainly interested in that, but just the fact that police knowingly accept that they will have to skirt the law to deny law abiding citizens their rights is the issue. As I discussed with this LEO, seeing my permit means absolutely nothing. They are just harassing people, pure and simple.
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