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Your thoughts on the Washington Arms Collectors
- Thread starter SaintJacque
- Start date
SpyderTattoo
Regular Member
No one gets a free membership. The fee is $35.00 for a year ( Jan 1 through Dec. 31 ).
Justman1020
Regular Member
FMCDH
Regular Member
I see nothing on their site in the membership section, in the bylaws or club rules, OR anything on the membership application to distinguish military vs civilian applicants.
I would suggest the "free membership for active duty" idea is either a myth, or a rumor possibly created from a promotion they ran at one time or another.
You could always call the guy in charge of membership, his number is on the site.
Dave_pro2a
Regular Member
Let's assume the fairgrounds had something in their rental agreement... it simply could/would not cover allowing LEO to bring automatic weapons to the show (for entertainment/display/propaganda), but not 'regular' civilians. Many WA residents (non LEO) legally own machine guns (grandfathered). So why are they discriminated against by WAC?
And the fairground lease would not make a distinction between someone who is 18, or 21 in regards to firearm possession -- only in regards to alcohol. That's clearly a WAC choice..
So your excuses for WAC's actions are just that, excuses... and not good ones at that.
BTW, they could find an alternate venue that isn't anti-gun... assuming your excuse has even a drop of water. That would be better than giving an anti-gun venue all that revenue imho.
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slapmonkay
Campaign Veteran
The [strike]terrorists[/strike]bullies win if you do that.
I'm genuinely curious, and I promise I won't flame you
Feel free to read here.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...-Free-tables&p=1632085&viewfull=1#post1632085
Dave_pro2a
Regular Member
I agree completely that forcing people to un-holster guns, and un-chamber rounds, is more dangerous than simply allowing loaded and holstered guns into the show.
A gun left in a holster really can't go off.
Draw a gun and diddle with it, and it can go off.
Therefore it is safer to not to draw and diddle your gun
That's just logic 101. It's impossible to argue against that.
Attendees at the Washington Arms Committee shows are less safe, because people are forced to draw and un-chamber rounds at the entrance of the facility.
How much less safe? No idea.
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SpyderTattoo
Regular Member
That logic fails when you consider thousands of people in the show that, if they had loaded weapons in holsters, "might just find that holster they've been looking for..." and pull out their loaded gun to "just check to see if that holster fits."
We really don't have to keep going over this every couple weeks, do we? The club is a private organization. By entering the premesis, member or not, a person is subject to the rules of the club. The club has been around since 1952. The rules are not arbitrary, they are there for good reason. I agree that it is safer to leave your weapon holstered, but I work there and see the "gun handling skills" of LOTS of people. Most people I encounter are safe with their weapons, but there are many that are not. I hate to say it, but, it's kind of like, "lowest common denominator". There are liability issues the club faces too.
No one is forced to unload their gun at the bullet trap, they have the choice to leave the ammunition in their vehicle. Many do.
You might think that finding another venue is easy... It's not. The club has a balancing act. Show too far north, the people down south complain. Too far south, people up north complain. And if I remember right, King County is out of the question, (though I'm not sure why). The club has been looking for alternate places to hold shows and has come up empty.
If you're a member, remember, the rules are set by an elected board of directors. Don't like something? Run for office and try to change it, or do so by your vote. If you're not a member, suck it up and quit complaining. It is what it is. Respect private property rights. If you don't want to come, don't. No big deal. But for goodness-sake, can we just stop beating this dead horse? It really just sounds like whining now.
We really don't have to keep going over this every couple weeks, do we? The club is a private organization. By entering the premesis, member or not, a person is subject to the rules of the club. The club has been around since 1952. The rules are not arbitrary, they are there for good reason. I agree that it is safer to leave your weapon holstered, but I work there and see the "gun handling skills" of LOTS of people. Most people I encounter are safe with their weapons, but there are many that are not. I hate to say it, but, it's kind of like, "lowest common denominator". There are liability issues the club faces too.
No one is forced to unload their gun at the bullet trap, they have the choice to leave the ammunition in their vehicle. Many do.
You might think that finding another venue is easy... It's not. The club has a balancing act. Show too far north, the people down south complain. Too far south, people up north complain. And if I remember right, King County is out of the question, (though I'm not sure why). The club has been looking for alternate places to hold shows and has come up empty.
If you're a member, remember, the rules are set by an elected board of directors. Don't like something? Run for office and try to change it, or do so by your vote. If you're not a member, suck it up and quit complaining. It is what it is. Respect private property rights. If you don't want to come, don't. No big deal. But for goodness-sake, can we just stop beating this dead horse? It really just sounds like whining now.
Metalhead47
Regular Member
You see?? You see?? You see what happens when you don't drop a zombie thread the minute it rears its ugly head??
Now it's spreading disease & rot all over the place! Even the dead horses aren't safe!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Now it's spreading disease & rot all over the place! Even the dead horses aren't safe!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
oneeyeross
Regular Member
How come why for does everyone always beat the poor dead horse? Let him rot in peace. He worked hard pulling the plow for years, now let him be...
Dave_pro2a
Regular Member
Your logic fails because well, WAC simply CANNOT prevent people from carrying loaded pistols into their event. Once in, they can do exactly as you describe anyways -- if they are fracking morons.
So once again, anti-gun rules only effects those who follow the rules.
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SpyderTattoo
Regular Member
That's not a failure of logic on my part, that's a failure to follow/respect private property rules on their part. I find that the majority of pro-gun people are honest people that aren't going about trying to break rules. Most people understand why no loaded weapons are allowed.
You're right, it is not exactly enforcable to keep all loaded guns out of the show. The reason is because it's cost prohibitive. I suppose the club could double the annual membership dues and purchase metal detectors and security gates... But if someone did have one and they were discovered, well, that's why there are police there to help enforce the rules and escort them out.
You're right, it is not exactly enforcable to keep all loaded guns out of the show. The reason is because it's cost prohibitive. I suppose the club could double the annual membership dues and purchase metal detectors and security gates... But if someone did have one and they were discovered, well, that's why there are police there to help enforce the rules and escort them out.
golddigger14s
Activist Member
Nope
Justman1020
Regular Member
I called today. They do not allow military in for free/free membership, so since that's the case and since ocdo won't have a table I'm not going.
badkarma
Regular Member
WAC is great for $750 Glocks. I have found a few minor items over the past 10 years there but I will never join their group just to buy a gun there. Once in a while ammo, small parts or the occasional military surplus items is about all I would buy from that place. I always carry in there and just walk by the security. I have never been frisked nor answered their question if I had a firearm. I have found guns I wanted on either a local gun board (SGN, WAGUNS, NWF) or actual gun shop for significantly cheaper and better customer service. This gun show is more of a novelty than actually providing a service in my opinion. Fun to look but nothing really worth it. Almost like going to a state fair on some occasions.
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sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
Yet some members on this site admit to breaking the rules.....
Not that I have a problem with that.
That's funny right there.
My thoughts on WAC, they are a private entity entitled to do what ever they want. I do get a little irritated at "pro gun" entities, (individuals or corporations, organizations etc) that then don't trust other gun folks.
I will choose simply not to attend, and hold no ill will for others who support them or enjoy going. After all it is a "collectors" group, and I really am not a "collector". Plus the few gun shows I have been too really have nothing much to offer me.
gogodawgs
Campaign Veteran
Successfully attended the WAC show today buying a shotgun, .357 Sig barrel, and 3 1911 mags. Saw TriggerDr, Dave Workman and others. After leaving the gate I loaded up my magazine racked the slide and was armed for my walk back to the car.
Great prices on all the items I bought. Great camaraderie with Deros and everyone else at the show.
Great prices on all the items I bought. Great camaraderie with Deros and everyone else at the show.
Gray Peterson
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
I cannot, for the life of me, understand why WAC gets continually attacked for being anti-Second Amendment, a Brady, or anti-gun.
I decided on a whim, to check the rules at other shows nationwide.
SunCoast Gun Show, Tampa, FL
Eastman Gun Shows, Georgia, the site of a 13 year old being killed by a loaded gun RIP Steven Bray King
The Nation's Gun Show, Dulles Expo Center, Virginia
Where you see this:
DUE TO PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUES AND INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS, THERE WILL BE NO LOADED GUNS, OR MAGAZINES, ALLOWED ON THE SHOW FLOOR. THIS APPLIES TO VENDORS AS WELL AS THE GENERAL PUBLIC. SORRY, BUT WITHOUT MEETING THE INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS THE SHOW CANNOT GO ON, AND AS MUCH AS WE MIGHT AGREE ( or disagree ) WITH YOUR OBJECTIONS, WE MUCH PREFER TO CONTINUE THE SHOW IN SPITE OF THIS SMALL INCONVENIENCE. THIS MATTER IS NOT OUR POLICY OR DECISION, BUT WE CANNOT AND WILL NOT CHANGE IT OR MAKE EXCEPTIONS.
It's also the same with the Wes Knodel/Rose City Show in Portland, and the Collector's West Gun Shows in Oregon and SW Washington, and the Crossroads of the West Gun Shows in places like Arizona, Utah, and Nevada.
No gun show, of any size whatsoever, allows ANY loaded firearms except for their own security detail, PERIOD. Whether they're a membership based organization or not, whether they allow the general public to buy guns, it doesn't matter at all. NONE OF THEM ALLOW IT, PERIOD. Some do not even allow you to have your personal guns at all, like the Eastman one (where a personally owned gun killed that 13 year old), WAC isn't that strict thankfully.
They are not going to drop their policy, as they aren't going to be able to, Any venue owned someone they find which would allow "loaded guns" will have a discussion with their insurance company and basically be told "under no circumstances is this to be allowed". There is no venue to go to that would allow this, PERIOD.
These are facts, folks. WAC doesn't have these rules to be anti-gun, they have it to protect their membership and not lose all insurance coverage in case of an injury of any kind (not just gun related, slip & falls apply too). This is reality, not a fantasy.
I'm sorry Dave_pro2A and SVG, but both of you are barking up the wrong tree for the wrong reasons, and blaming the wrong people. Welcome to the reality of running a business.
I decided on a whim, to check the rules at other shows nationwide.
SunCoast Gun Show, Tampa, FL
Eastman Gun Shows, Georgia, the site of a 13 year old being killed by a loaded gun RIP Steven Bray King
The Nation's Gun Show, Dulles Expo Center, Virginia
Where you see this:
DUE TO PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUES AND INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS, THERE WILL BE NO LOADED GUNS, OR MAGAZINES, ALLOWED ON THE SHOW FLOOR. THIS APPLIES TO VENDORS AS WELL AS THE GENERAL PUBLIC. SORRY, BUT WITHOUT MEETING THE INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS THE SHOW CANNOT GO ON, AND AS MUCH AS WE MIGHT AGREE ( or disagree ) WITH YOUR OBJECTIONS, WE MUCH PREFER TO CONTINUE THE SHOW IN SPITE OF THIS SMALL INCONVENIENCE. THIS MATTER IS NOT OUR POLICY OR DECISION, BUT WE CANNOT AND WILL NOT CHANGE IT OR MAKE EXCEPTIONS.
It's also the same with the Wes Knodel/Rose City Show in Portland, and the Collector's West Gun Shows in Oregon and SW Washington, and the Crossroads of the West Gun Shows in places like Arizona, Utah, and Nevada.
No gun show, of any size whatsoever, allows ANY loaded firearms except for their own security detail, PERIOD. Whether they're a membership based organization or not, whether they allow the general public to buy guns, it doesn't matter at all. NONE OF THEM ALLOW IT, PERIOD. Some do not even allow you to have your personal guns at all, like the Eastman one (where a personally owned gun killed that 13 year old), WAC isn't that strict thankfully.
They are not going to drop their policy, as they aren't going to be able to, Any venue owned someone they find which would allow "loaded guns" will have a discussion with their insurance company and basically be told "under no circumstances is this to be allowed". There is no venue to go to that would allow this, PERIOD.
These are facts, folks. WAC doesn't have these rules to be anti-gun, they have it to protect their membership and not lose all insurance coverage in case of an injury of any kind (not just gun related, slip & falls apply too). This is reality, not a fantasy.
I'm sorry Dave_pro2A and SVG, but both of you are barking up the wrong tree for the wrong reasons, and blaming the wrong people. Welcome to the reality of running a business.
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tombrewster421
Regular Member
Very well stated. Like everybody says "if you don't like the rules, don't go".
BigDave
Opt-Out Members
I have attended WAC Guns shows in Puyallup and Sports Connection Gun Shows in Yakima and TriCities and found that at the WAC Gun Shows unless you are a member from what I understand you cannot buy a gun there and the Sports Connection Gun Shows there is not a restriction to my knowledge.
It is more of an issue for me that the Gun Shows have been most people selling at them are out pricing themselves and I have found better prices at local stores.
I was looking at a used Springfield XD in a Yakima show and it was priced at new gun prices! and the same was true about ammo and reloading supplies as well.
The Sports Connection Gun Shows requires all guns to be zipped tied and there is no unloading of magazines. There was no restriction as to membership to purchase a gun.
I agree with the concept if you do not like the way someone does business, go to a business you like.
It is more of an issue for me that the Gun Shows have been most people selling at them are out pricing themselves and I have found better prices at local stores.
I was looking at a used Springfield XD in a Yakima show and it was priced at new gun prices! and the same was true about ammo and reloading supplies as well.
The Sports Connection Gun Shows requires all guns to be zipped tied and there is no unloading of magazines. There was no restriction as to membership to purchase a gun.
I agree with the concept if you do not like the way someone does business, go to a business you like.