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Thread: Portland Officer asked to leave cafe

  1. #1
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    http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local...-yLknbXWQ.cspx

    I wonder how they would respond to an OC in their little hippie den?



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    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over.

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    What is really worriesome is that 82% of the people polled think it was not OK for the owner to ask the Officer to leave. Unless the LEO was there with a warrent or had a call to investigate a crime in the restaurantthe owner has the right to ask the LEO or anyone else for that matter to leave.

    I did this 2 times when I lived in Kalifornia and it stuns the LEO, they both left with out incident or repercussions.
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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    I just read the whole story here and to me it didn't sound like they asked him to leave just because he was carrying a gun, it was because he was a Portland Police Officer. It seems like almost every month we hear about another unjustified (IMHO) shooting by the Police in the Portland Metro area. Some of the storys that stand out in my mind are: The drunk kid threatening to kill himself who was shot in the back 8 times on his porch steps in front of his parents. The officer who shot and killed a fellow off duty officer who was chasing a bad guy. The officer who walked into a bar, killed his wife, friends and then himself. The illegal search, seizure and "evaluation" of the guy in Salem (I know this isn't metro but its still the west side of the state).
    If I owned a cafe it would be called Molon Labe Cafe and I would require all of my employees to open carry. If a police officer from Oregon came in I would promptly serve him or her and ask them to leave just like Langly did. It's not that I dislike cops, it's that they don't have good public relations around here for good reason and unfortunately they don't seem to be doing anything about it.

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    Had I been eating there, the owner would have ended up wearing my meal and watching me walk out the door behind the officer. The fact that he took the officer's money and THEN told him to leave shows me that he's nothing more than a common thief.

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    Private property. If the owner thinks you are creating a disturbance or are otherwise affecting his business he can ask you to leave. We all agree that it shouldn't be done, but it's legal so long as you aren't discriminating against a protected class.

    Store owner doesn't like people with "I voted for Obama" t-shirts? He has a right to discriminate.
    Club owner doesn't think you look flashy enough for his club? Sorry, you don't get in even if you can afford the cover charge.
    Cafe owner thinks you're making his patrons feel uncomfortable? There's the door; come back when we can trust you.


    It doesn't mean I would do it, but I do agree that the owner of the cafe has the right and the authority to manage his property to his satisfaction.

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    Seigneur had struck up a conversation with Portland Police officer James Crooker who had just picked up coffee to go
    I think you should work on your reading comprehension before you go around calling people thieves.

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    Orphan wrote:
    I did this 2 times when I lived in Kalifornia

    Why?

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    1FASTC4 wrote:
    Orphan wrote:
    I did this 2 times when I lived in Kalifornia

    Why?
    Both timesLE came intothe business I managed without asking, just walked intothe shopand started grillingan employee. I asked politly if they could question the employee after work and I got a smart remark back from the Officer to the effect that he could do as he pleased (short version). That was the 1st timewhen I asked them to leave. The second time I asked them to leave was as soon as I realized they were there and what they wanted.If it had been an emergency I would have never said or thought a thing about it. The smart mouthcombined with talking downto me = no respect given and resulted in no respect given back.They werewasting my company's money by disrupting my whole shop.Both times it was about thefts that were committed earlier and not by the empolyee they were questioning, all of that could have waited a few hours. It was Ventura PD if you are wondering or care.
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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    as a business owner he has the right to refuse service to anyone, he does not have to explain his reasons to anyone. if he does choose to explain them, THEN he must not be discriminating against a protected group.

    he obviously has more patrons that fall into the "oppressed ****** bags" catergory than the "law abiding citizen" catergory..... in this case it would make perfect business sense to cater to your patrons.... word will get around and more people like that will frequent his cafe and he will make more money.... meanwhile the police will talk and stay away from his cafe because they are not welcome there.....

    subsequently, when one of his prefered customers decides to pump two into the cafe owner while robbing the now full till, the police will be across town, in a cafe that welcomes them.... one that isnt being robbed by the "oppressed ****** bags".

    and the community will say...."there is never a cop around when you need one"

    :?
    *Disclaimer~ I am not an attorney, i do not give legal advice. Any opinion stated here is in no way meant to insinuate, imply, compel or encourage that you should do anything that is illegal either knowingly or otherwise. My answers however valid may not be complete or applicable to your individual situation. I strongly recommend that you do your own research, make your own decisions and hire an attorney for legal advice ~

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    Heartless_Conservative wrote:
    Seigneur had struck up a conversation with Portland Police officer James Crooker who had just picked up coffee to go
    I think you should work on your reading comprehension before you go around calling people thieves.
    That fact wasn't in the version that I read. That merely means that he was just common scum, and not a thief.

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    Teddybearfrmhell wrote:

    he obviously has more patrons that fall into the "oppressed ****** bags" catergory than the "law abiding citizen" catergory..... "

    :?
    You, like most police officers naturally assume I take it that anyone who wants to have as little interaction with the police as possible must be a "d-bag"?

    Exercise your rights = "d-bag"? Not wanting to talk to the police must = "d-bag"? Refusing to answer questions not specifically required by law makes you a "d-bag"? That is the way many of them feel--is that how you see it as well?




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    suntzu wrote:
    Teddybearfrmhell wrote:

    he obviously has more patrons that fall into the "oppressed ****** bags" catergory than the "law abiding citizen" catergory..... "

    :?
    You, like most police officers naturally assume I take it that anyone who wants to have as little interaction with the police as possible must be a "d-bag"?

    Exercise your rights = "d-bag"? Not wanting to talk to the police must = "d-bag"? Refusing to answer questions not specifically required by law makes you a "d-bag"? That is the way many of them feel--is that how you see it as well?
    not at all, but then again, i have nothing to fear from the police until the day they come to take away my guns...... but lets behonest, the majority of society has no reason to fear the police and they dont..... the majority of police are good and need not be feared..... the majority of the "oppressed ****** bags" are already known to the police in the form of "priors" which makes them fear the further scrutinization because they are "habitual offenders" ..... so i excercise my right to bear arms, i excercise my right to freedom of speech by calling an "oppressed ****** bag an oppressed ****** bag" and you excercise yours by questioning me.... so i ask you, if i do not fear the majority of the police, if i am in the majority of society, am i oppressing you? are you one of the "oppressed ****** bags" here to bait people? i think yes..... enjoy your life and have a great day

    *Disclaimer~ I am not an attorney, i do not give legal advice. Any opinion stated here is in no way meant to insinuate, imply, compel or encourage that you should do anything that is illegal either knowingly or otherwise. My answers however valid may not be complete or applicable to your individual situation. I strongly recommend that you do your own research, make your own decisions and hire an attorney for legal advice ~

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    suntzu wrote:
    Teddybearfrmhell wrote:

    he obviously has more patrons that fall into the "oppressed ****** bags" catergory than the "law abiding citizen" catergory..... "

    :?
    You, like most police officers naturally assume I take it that anyone who wants to have as little interaction with the police as possible must be a "d-bag"?

    Exercise your rights = "d-bag"? Not wanting to talk to the police must = "d-bag"? Refusing to answer questions not specifically required by law makes you a "d-bag"? That is the way many of them feel--is that how you see it as well?
    btw, the police officer, if you recall had not been questioning anyone, no one was answering questions, the police officer was getting a coffee to go..... must have been an intimidating blend huh? :shock:

    *Disclaimer~ I am not an attorney, i do not give legal advice. Any opinion stated here is in no way meant to insinuate, imply, compel or encourage that you should do anything that is illegal either knowingly or otherwise. My answers however valid may not be complete or applicable to your individual situation. I strongly recommend that you do your own research, make your own decisions and hire an attorney for legal advice ~

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    Teddybearfrmhell wrote:
    suntzu wrote:
    Teddybearfrmhell wrote:

    he obviously has more patrons that fall into the "oppressed ****** bags" catergory than the "law abiding citizen" catergory..... "

    :?
    You, like most police officers naturally assume I take it that anyone who wants to have as little interaction with the police as possible must be a "d-bag"?

    Exercise your rights = "d-bag"? Not wanting to talk to the police must = "d-bag"? Refusing to answer questions not specifically required by law makes you a "d-bag"? That is the way many of them feel--is that how you see it as well?
    btw, the police officer, if you recall had not been questioning anyone, no one was answering questions, the police officer was getting a coffee to go..... must have been an intimidating blend huh? :shock:
    Again, it comes down to property owner rights--you do respect those yes? You do want your property rights respected yes? If a property owner asks you to leave--do you leave or do you stay? Do you simply take your money (which they need more than you need their product) and do you take your money down the street to another shop that is more welcoming?

    The owner of the property had every right to ask the officer to leave--the same way they have the right to ask you to leave. Remember--they need your money more than you need their product--me--I'm more than happy to travel somewhere else and give my money....But hey, that is just me.

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    Teddybearfrmhell wrote:
    suntzu wrote:
    Teddybearfrmhell wrote:

    he obviously has more patrons that fall into the "oppressed ****** bags" catergory than the "law abiding citizen" catergory..... "

    :?
    You, like most police officers naturally assume I take it that anyone who wants to have as little interaction with the police as possible must be a "d-bag"?

    Exercise your rights = "d-bag"? Not wanting to talk to the police must = "d-bag"? Refusing to answer questions not specifically required by law makes you a "d-bag"? That is the way many of them feel--is that how you see it as well?
    not at all, but then again, i have nothing to fear from the police until the day they come to take away my guns...... but lets behonest, the majority of society has no reason to fear the police and they dont..... the majority of police are good and need not be feared..... the majority of the "oppressed ****** bags" are already known to the police in the form of "priors" which makes them fear the further scrutinization because they are "habitual offenders" ..... so i excercise my right to bear arms, i excercise my right to freedom of speech by calling an "oppressed ****** bag an oppressed ****** bag" and you excercise yours by questioning me.... so i ask you, if i do not fear the majority of the police, if i am in the majority of society, am i oppressing you? are you one of the "oppressed ****** bags" here to bait people? i think yes..... enjoy your life and have a great day

    So you think I'm a d-bag because I believe the property owner had the right to ask the officer to leave? That is your right--the same way it was the right of the property owners to ask the officer to leave.

    You think the majority of the police need not be feared? Again--you put more faith in them than I do. Too many instances lately of abusive conduct by law enforcement--such as the "pre-crimes" thread not long ago.

    As for the "oppressed d-bags" as you put them--you are merely jumping to a conclusion based on absolutely no evidence--you assume they have priors with the police, and that must therefore be why they are automatically "d-bags"--MAYBE they just like to be left alone, maybe they want as little interaction with the police as is humanly possible, maybe they believe that the police simply cannot be trusted, maybe they just believe in the Constitution a little more than you do? . Here is a heads up for you---many officers consider OC'ers to be nothing more than "tools" looking for a big payday--while they naturally absolve themselves of any responsibility whatsoever for the day to day interactions with OC'ers. It is always "the OC'ers fault, because if it wasn't for them--the officers wouldn't have reacted the way they did..."

    Me a "d-bag"? No..not hardly--but think as you will, it is entirely your right.

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    suntzu wrote:
    Teddybearfrmhell wrote:
    suntzu wrote:
    Teddybearfrmhell wrote:

    he obviously has more patrons that fall into the "oppressed ****** bags" catergory than the "law abiding citizen" catergory..... "

    :?
    You, like most police officers naturally assume I take it that anyone who wants to have as little interaction with the police as possible must be a "d-bag"?

    Exercise your rights = "d-bag"? Not wanting to talk to the police must = "d-bag"? Refusing to answer questions not specifically required by law makes you a "d-bag"? That is the way many of them feel--is that how you see it as well?
    not at all, but then again, i have nothing to fear from the police until the day they come to take away my guns...... but lets behonest, the majority of society has no reason to fear the police and they dont..... the majority of police are good and need not be feared..... the majority of the "oppressed ****** bags" are already known to the police in the form of "priors" which makes them fear the further scrutinization because they are "habitual offenders" ..... so i excercise my right to bear arms, i excercise my right to freedom of speech by calling an "oppressed ****** bag an oppressed ****** bag" and you excercise yours by questioning me.... so i ask you, if i do not fear the majority of the police, if i am in the majority of society, am i oppressing you? are you one of the "oppressed ****** bags" here to bait people? i think yes..... enjoy your life and have a great day

    So you think I'm a d-bag because I believe the property owner had the right to ask the officer to leave? That is your right--the same way it was the right of the property owners to ask the officer to leave.

    You think the majority of the police need not be feared? Again--you put more faith in them than I do. Too many instances lately of abusive conduct by law enforcement--such as the "pre-crimes" thread not long ago.

    As for the "oppressed d-bags" as you put them--you are merely jumping to a conclusion based on absolutely no evidence--you assume they have priors with the police, and that must therefore be why they are automatically "d-bags"--MAYBE they just like to be left alone, maybe they want as little interaction with the police as is humanly possible, maybe they believe that the police simply cannot be trusted, maybe they just believe in the Constitution a little more than you do? . Here is a heads up for you---many officers consider OC'ers to be nothing more than "tools" looking for a big payday--while they naturally absolve themselves of any responsibility whatsoever for the day to day interactions with OC'ers. It is always "the OC'ers fault, because if it wasn't for them--the officers wouldn't have reacted the way they did..."

    Me a "d-bag"? No..not hardly--but think as you will, it is entirely your right.
    of course he as a property owner has the right to ask the officer to leave as stated in the first 2 sentances of my post..... it is his right and i never argued that....

    i was however making an observation about his prefered customers based on his interview in the article..... so i stand by my post, prefered "oppressed ****** bag" customers over a police officer getting coffee to go, deserves the caliber of patron ..... and i again say you are here to stir up the pot, so you are either a total poser, an anti-government conspiracy theorist, a red neck white sepratist or one of the "oppressed ****** bags" ..... and it is ok to actually spell out ****** bag..... its not even a bad word


    *Disclaimer~ I am not an attorney, i do not give legal advice. Any opinion stated here is in no way meant to insinuate, imply, compel or encourage that you should do anything that is illegal either knowingly or otherwise. My answers however valid may not be complete or applicable to your individual situation. I strongly recommend that you do your own research, make your own decisions and hire an attorney for legal advice ~

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    Get 'im, SunTzu.

    Don't forget to pull out your facts, for example:

    • no-knock raids verifiably killing 40 innocent people (See Overkill by Radley Balko)
    • the militarization of police
    • the 200+ DNA exonerations by the Innocence Project
    • the midwest governor who shut down death row because 25% of its inmates were shown to be innocent
    • civil asset forfeiture creating "policing for profit" with 40% of chief's surveyed saying asset forfeiture was an important source of funding for police budgets...
    • the recent searches,arrests, andharassment of people who recorded on-duty police through the deliberate misapplication of wire-tap laws
    • the New Jersey judge who wrote that policeoften lied in his court
    • the former cop, Dale Carson, who writes to the effect that police lying in court is so common the police made up a word for it: testilying.
    • The video commentary by former cop Barry Cooper about how cops intimidate and cheat during traffic stops, and how drug dogs are made to falsely alert.
    • comparatively recent examples of police misbehavior recorded and uploaded to YouTube.
    • the open acknowledgement of police abuse in Terry v Ohio.
    No sense pretending sheepdogs aren't turning on the sheep.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  19. #19
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    Citizen wrote:
    Get 'im, SunTzu.

    Don't forget to pull out your facts, for example:

    • no-knock raids verifiably killing 40 innocent people (See Overkill by Radley Balko)
    • the militarization of police
    • the 200+ DNA exonerations by the Innocence Project
    • the midwest governor who shut down death row because 25% of its inmates were shown to be innocent
    • civil asset forfeiture creating "policing for profit" with 40% of chief's surveyed saying asset forfeiture was an important source of funding for police budgets...
    • the recent searches,arrests, andharassment of people who recorded on-duty police through the deliberate misapplication of wire-tap laws
    • the New Jersey judge who wrote that policeoften lied in his court
    • the former cop, Dale Carson, who writes to the effect that police lying in court is so common the police made up a word for it: testilying.
    • The video commentary by former cop Barry Cooper about how cops intimidate and cheat during traffic stops, and how drug dogs are made to falsely alert.
    • comparatively recent examples of police misbehavior recorded and uploaded to YouTube.
    • the open acknowledgement of police abuse in Terry v Ohio.
    No sense pretending sheepdogs aren't turning on the sheep.
    all of this from ONE cop buying a cup of coffee to go? :shock:

    if you can condem an oregon cop buying coffee for the actions of a new jersey cop lying to a judge...if you find NO wrong in that....we as a group are predestined to lose our individual rights.... we will be held up as examples of extremists each time someone with a gun goes on a rampage.... its the same thing... wrong of them to do to us, wrong of us to do to the cops.....

    i joined this group to support and excercise open carry, not to bash individual cops .... i totally support invesigating the police who initiated the "david pyle raid".... but for all cops everywhere to me help accountable for bad cops anywhere..... i am out, have your group, as a founding member, i say shame on you
    *Disclaimer~ I am not an attorney, i do not give legal advice. Any opinion stated here is in no way meant to insinuate, imply, compel or encourage that you should do anything that is illegal either knowingly or otherwise. My answers however valid may not be complete or applicable to your individual situation. I strongly recommend that you do your own research, make your own decisions and hire an attorney for legal advice ~

  20. #20
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    Teddybearfrmhell wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Get 'im, SunTzu.

    Don't forget to pull out your facts, for example:
    • no-knock raids verifiably killing 40 innocent people (See Overkill by Radley Balko)
    • the militarization of police
    • the 200+ DNA exonerations by the Innocence Project
    • the midwest governor who shut down death row because 25% of its inmates were shown to be innocent
    • civil asset forfeiture creating "policing for profit" with 40% of chief's surveyed saying asset forfeiture was an important source of funding for police budgets...
    • the recent searches,arrests, andharassment of people who recorded on-duty police through the deliberate misapplication of wire-tap laws
    • the New Jersey judge who wrote that policeoften lied in his court
    • the former cop, Dale Carson, who writes to the effect that police lying in court is so common the police made up a word for it: testilying.
    • The video commentary by former cop Barry Cooper about how cops intimidate and cheat during traffic stops, and how drug dogs are made to falsely alert.
    • comparatively recent examples of police misbehavior recorded and uploaded to YouTube.
    • the open acknowledgement of police abuse in Terry v Ohio.
    No sense pretending sheepdogs aren't turning on the sheep.
    all of this from ONE cop buying a cup of coffee to go? :shock:
    No, from the 40,000 OCDO users reading post after post by cop sycophant apologists and chamberlain-water carriers.

  21. #21
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Teddybearfrmhell wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Get 'im, SunTzu.

    Don't forget to pull out your facts, for example:
    • no-knock raids verifiably killing 40 innocent people (See Overkill by Radley Balko)
    • the militarization of police
    • the 200+ DNA exonerations by the Innocence Project
    • the midwest governor who shut down death row because 25% of its inmates were shown to be innocent
    • civil asset forfeiture creating "policing for profit" with 40% of chief's surveyed saying asset forfeiture was an important source of funding for police budgets...
    • the recent searches,arrests, andharassment of people who recorded on-duty police through the deliberate misapplication of wire-tap laws
    • the New Jersey judge who wrote that policeoften lied in his court
    • the former cop, Dale Carson, who writes to the effect that police lying in court is so common the police made up a word for it: testilying.
    • The video commentary by former cop Barry Cooper about how cops intimidate and cheat during traffic stops, and how drug dogs are made to falsely alert.
    • comparatively recent examples of police misbehavior recorded and uploaded to YouTube.
    • the open acknowledgement of police abuse in Terry v Ohio.
    No sense pretending sheepdogs aren't turning on the sheep.
    all of this from ONE cop buying a cup of coffee to go? :shock:
    No, from the 40,000 OCDO users reading post after post by cop sycophant apologists and chamberlain-water carriers.
    i am certainly not an apologist, people need to be held responsible for their own actions, and i am no water carrying chamberlain.... i would certainly sell a cup of coffee to a cop and as for water, a thisty cop would drink for free, as would you sir.... it is the right thing to do
    *Disclaimer~ I am not an attorney, i do not give legal advice. Any opinion stated here is in no way meant to insinuate, imply, compel or encourage that you should do anything that is illegal either knowingly or otherwise. My answers however valid may not be complete or applicable to your individual situation. I strongly recommend that you do your own research, make your own decisions and hire an attorney for legal advice ~

  22. #22
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    Teddybearfrmhell wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Get 'im, SunTzu.

    Don't forget to pull out your facts, for example:

    • no-knock raids verifiably killing 40 innocent people (See Overkill by Radley Balko)
    • the militarization of police
    • the 200+ DNA exonerations by the Innocence Project
    • the midwest governor who shut down death row because 25% of its inmates were shown to be innocent
    • civil asset forfeiture creating "policing for profit" with 40% of chief's surveyed saying asset forfeiture was an important source of funding for police budgets...
    • the recent searches,arrests, andharassment of people who recorded on-duty police through the deliberate misapplication of wire-tap laws
    • the New Jersey judge who wrote that policeoften lied in his court
    • the former cop, Dale Carson, who writes to the effect that police lying in court is so common the police made up a word for it: testilying.
    • The video commentary by former cop Barry Cooper about how cops intimidate and cheat during traffic stops, and how drug dogs are made to falsely alert.
    • comparatively recent examples of police misbehavior recorded and uploaded to YouTube.
    • the open acknowledgement of police abuse in Terry v Ohio.
    No sense pretending sheepdogs aren't turning on the sheep.
    all of this from ONE cop buying a cup of coffee to go? :shock:

    if you can condem an oregon cop buying coffee for the actions of a new jersey cop lying to a judge...if you find NO wrong in that....we as a group are predestined to lose our individual rights.... we will be held up as examples of extremists each time someone with a gun goes on a rampage.... its the same thing... wrong of them to do to us, wrong of us to do to the cops.....

    i joined this group to support and excercise open carry, not to bash individual cops .... i totally support invesigating the police who initiated the "david pyle raid".... but for all cops everywhere to me help accountable for bad cops anywhere..... i am out, have your group, as a founding member, i say shame on you
    "All this" from one Founding Member laying out facts about police abuse? And, what? Six other members--out of 20K--arguing for the coffee shop owner?

    Oh, my. I don't think we're the one's generalizing. (chuckle, laugh)

    Anyway. We knew you were a biased police supporter earlier. I knew it with certainty, even though I wasn't following the thread in detail, from two comments you made that I will quote and address in my next post.

    Leave if you must; but we would rather you stay. Maybe we can learn something from each other.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    348

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    again, if your read my post, i agree the coffee shop owner has every right to ask anyone to leave his shop.... not a question in my mind, his right....

    if you think i am a "police supporter" please feel free to read any of my posts regarding david pyle here in medford....

    what i do not support is contempt for the whole based on the actions of a few ..... this cop bought coffee to go, nothing else, coffee to go...

    now show me the harm, the intimidation, the lies, the false imprisionment in the purchase of coffee, to go..... show me ONE incedent that this cop of 3 years was involved in..... anything you can say about this cop during this incedent? he bought coffee..... yep, he sure did.... he was asked to leave... he left....

    so condem him for what?

    please enlighten me, this one cop, what has he done???? show me his misdeed and i will support you 100%

    till then, you spew hatred...... its not right





    *Disclaimer~ I am not an attorney, i do not give legal advice. Any opinion stated here is in no way meant to insinuate, imply, compel or encourage that you should do anything that is illegal either knowingly or otherwise. My answers however valid may not be complete or applicable to your individual situation. I strongly recommend that you do your own research, make your own decisions and hire an attorney for legal advice ~

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

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    Teddybearfrmhell wrote:
    SNIP...i have nothing to fear from the police until the day they come to take away my guns...... but lets behonest, the majority of society has no reason to fear the police.... the majority of police are good and need not be feared.....
    So, police can enforce progressively more and more repressive laws, and as long as they don't come take guns there is no reason to be concerned?

    Do guns existfor their own sake? Or, do they exist, among other reasons, to fight back againsteconomic tyranny?

    Yes, let's be honest. Lets do a little research on what police have been up to. Lets start, say, with the so-called War on Drugs, and come forward from there. Let's be particularly honest about the Blue Wall of Silence and the fact that so-called good cops cover up for other so-called good cops who make mistakes, and bad cops. These so-called good cops can't be all that interested in protecting the public and securing the rights of the public if they tolerate and cover up for other cops, can they? Sounds like misplaced loyalty to me.

    I have been seized by police four times since 2007. Two were illegal on their face. Two, while technically legal at inception, immediately turned into fishing expeditions. Only one seizure occurred because of my OCd gun, leaving three times the government stuck its face in mine with the implied threat of force, economic sanction (fines, legal fees), and loss of freedom that had nothing whatsoever to do with OC.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Cottage Grove, Oregon, USA
    Posts
    348

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    Citizen wrote:
    Teddybearfrmhell wrote:
    SNIP...i have nothing to fear from the police until the day they come to take away my guns...... but lets behonest, the majority of society has no reason to fear the police.... the majority of police are good and need not be feared.....
    So, police can enforce progressively more and more repressive laws, and as long as they don't come take guns there is no reason to be concerned?

    Do guns existfor their own sake? Or, do they exist, among other reasons, to fight back againsteconomic tyranny?

    Yes, let's be honest. Lets do a little research on what police have been up to. Lets start, say, with the so-called War on Drugs, and come forward from there. Let's be particularly honest about the Blue Wall of Silence and the fact that so-called good cops cover up for other so-called good cops who make mistakes, and bad cops. These so-called good cops can't be all that interested in protecting the public and securing the rights of the public if they tolerate and cover up for other cops, can they? Sounds like misplaced loyalty to me.

    I have been seized by police four times since 2007. Two were illegal on their face. Two, while technically legal at inception, immediately turned into fishing expeditions. Only one seizure occurred because of my OCd gun, leaving three times the government stuck its face in mine with the implied threat of force, economic sanction (fines, legal fees), and loss of freedom that had nothing whatsoever to do with OC.
    and this has what to do with the officer buying coffee in oregon? he was involved how?

    now, to address your specific point, looks like a minority of cops wronged a minority of citizens..... my statement stands.... "the majority of society has no reason to fear the police.... the majority of police are good and need not be feared"

    cops in oregon did not come to your house , they did not sieze nor threaten you in anyway... so how can a cop, buying coffee merit this complete and utter contempt you load upon him?

    you want to make this into a institutional thing and it is an individual thing..... reverse it, see how it feels coming back at you... wrong is wrong every time, not just when you have it done to you.
    *Disclaimer~ I am not an attorney, i do not give legal advice. Any opinion stated here is in no way meant to insinuate, imply, compel or encourage that you should do anything that is illegal either knowingly or otherwise. My answers however valid may not be complete or applicable to your individual situation. I strongly recommend that you do your own research, make your own decisions and hire an attorney for legal advice ~

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