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Thread: hello folks new guy with a question

  1. #1
    Regular Member CharleyMarbles's Avatar
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    I'm asking around everywhere and thought this is a good place to ask?



    What are the members thought's on firearms rights for NON-VIOLENT felons???
    America Home of the Free BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE ! ! ! !

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    CharleyMarbles wrote:
    What are the members thought's on firearms rights for NON-VIOLENT felons???
    I think this:

    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    "Every person has a right to bear arms for the defense of himself and the state."

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    CharleyMarbles wrote:
    What are the members thought's on firearms rights for NON-VIOLENT felons???
    I think this:

    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    "Every person has a right to bear arms for the defense of himself and the state."
    +1

  4. #4
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    CharleyMarbles wrote:
    What are the members thought's on firearms rights for NON-VIOLENT felons???
    I think this:

    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    "Every person has a right to bear arms for the defense of himself and the state."
    Very well put Zig - per normal.
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  5. #5
    Regular Member MarineSgt's Avatar
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    If someone is too "dangerous" to posses a weapon, they shouldn't be out on the street.

    I feel that once someone's "debt to society" is paid (which it never is unfortunately), meaning their jail/prison time is served, all of the rights they were deprived of when incarcerated should be returned.

    Unfortunately our justice system creates second class citizens. A good friend of mine is a felon. He had an unloaded .22 pistol in plain view in his van when he was pulled over (He was unaware that this meant it was concealed in Michigan). After threatening him with years of prison time he pled guilty to a CCW. Felon for life. Land of the free indeed.
    Someone who can't be trusted to walk free in public with a firearm shouldn't be walking around free.

  6. #6
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    MarineSgt wrote:
    If someone is too "dangerous" to posses a weapon, they shouldn't be out on the street.

    I feel that once someone's "debt to society" is paid (which it never is unfortunately), meaning their jail/prison time is served, all of the rights they were deprived of when incarcerated should be returned.

    Unfortunately our justice system creates second class citizens. A good friend of mine is a felon. He had an unloaded .22 pistol in plain view in his van when he was pulled over (He was unaware that this meant it was concealed in Michigan). After threatening him with years of prison time he pled guilty to a CCW. Felon for life. Land of the free indeed.

    Agreed.

    Any criminal penalty, whether imprisonment, probation, fines, or other loss of rights should be a part of the criminal sentence and should be a definite and appropriately limited. Once the money is paid or the time is done then all rights should be restored.

    I think also need to think about reforming our prison system so that it is no longer a criminal university when offenders learn to be better criminals. I haven't thought this out too much but maybe a system where they earn their way out by reaching certain benchmarks. The word rehabilitation is thrown around but seldom actually reached.

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    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    Savage.Detroit wrote:
    MarineSgt wrote:
    If someone is too "dangerous" to posses a weapon, they shouldn't be out on the street.

    I feel that once someone's "debt to society" is paid (which it never is unfortunately), meaning their jail/prison time is served, all of the rights they were deprived of when incarcerated should be returned.

    Unfortunately our justice system creates second class citizens. A good friend of mine is a felon. He had an unloaded .22 pistol in plain view in his van when he was pulled over (He was unaware that this meant it was concealed in Michigan). After threatening him with years of prison time he pled guilty to a CCW. Felon for life. Land of the free indeed.

    Agreed.

    Any criminal penalty, whether imprisonment, probation, fines, or other loss of rights should be a part of the criminal sentence and should be a definite and appropriately limited. Once the money is paid or the time is done then all rights should be restored.

    I think also need to think about reforming our prison system so that it is no longer a criminal university when offenders learn to be better criminals. I haven't thought this out too much but maybe a system where they earn their way out by reaching certain benchmarks. The word rehabilitation is thrown around but seldom actually reached.
    +1.

    Jail should be a scary place. Somewhere people don't want to go. Right now, they have 3 hots and a cot, cable TV, plenty of chance to work out, can pretty much drink and do drugs at will, etc. It's a better life for many people, which is why they commit crime to begin with. If jail was a dungeon cell where you had intense rehab and therapy, and weren't let out until you proved you were truly ready to go, things would probably be different.

    The way they are now, rehab means nothing. It reminds me of the last quote of "A Clockwork Orange".


    "I was cured, all right..."

    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    +1

    " I got a bit of pain in me fuzzy nubbles ".

    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  9. #9
    Regular Member kryptonian's Avatar
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    i remember reading where a felon (tax evasion) appealed the law to michigan supreme court but didn't hear the outcome. saw another one where a guy was having sex with a 16 year old girl (legal in michigan) but took naked pics of her and charged with child pornography.

  10. #10
    Regular Member CharleyMarbles's Avatar
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    I am glad to hear I am not the only one who feels this way.

    I guess I being a convicted Non-violent felon am a bit biased but I also feel eminatly qualified to address the situation. I made a very bad disision some 15 yrs. ago, in that I was working for a man who failed to pay me after a few weeks I went to the office and asked for my pay. He stated he didn't have the money to pay me so I in a moment of poor disision makeing picked up his laser level and a gas detector and told him he could have it back when he paid me. THIS WAS WRONG I realized that after I got home and the police showed up and aressted me for grand theft. I never tryed to lie and I was compleatly honest as to what had happned and the story checked out almost word for word with the victoms account of the incident (he didn't mention to them that he owed me pay for work I had performed for his company).

    One would think the police could have handled it right there but they fallowed the letter of the law and I was prosicuted for grand theft. Being as I was wrong I admited it and thought shurly the Judge would understand and lessen the charge and just fine me.Nope he did however give me the minimum sentance and allow work release. 180 days confinement and fines and restitution equaling almost TWICE the value of the property. So long story short it cost me nearly $7000.00 and my 2A rights to be honest and admit I was wrong!!!

    I will NEVER again speak to a LEO without a lawyer present to speak for me. Even if I did make a bad disision and am guilty.

    OK now that you know the whole story my problem is I now have a Wife and 2 daughters to support and defend but I am not ALLOWED to have the tools to defend my family if heaven forbid some violent criminal were to attack us either out side of or inside our home. Further I am religated to DEPENDING on the police to do the job of defending me and my family. I how ever have no recorse against them if they are late to the call and one of my family is seriously hurt or killed as they have NO OBLIGATION to protect us at ALL times. Now I submit that if I am not allowed to secure my family and am FORCED to DEPEND on the police to do the job shouldn't they be culpable if they fail in their job?

    Please understand I am NOT anti-police as a matter of fact I HIGHLY respect them for what they do.Ihave had this conversation with many of them (some agree some do not)

    I'm also a Veteran of the U.S. ARMY with service in the first Gulf War. I was a weapons trainer qualiferForPonds Security Forces Europe and am fully versed in the safe use of firearms.

    Even thought I have been prohibited the use of firearms for the past 15 yrs. I continue to keep abreast of the latest in hardwear via magizines and the laws Via the internet.

    So I ask am I a danger to socitey?? Do I and my Family not deserve the right to selfdefence?? Or am I now just a SUB CITIZEN ?????

    America Home of the Free BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE ! ! ! !

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Have you pursued expungement?

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

  12. #12
    Regular Member CharleyMarbles's Avatar
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    Bronson wrote:
    Have you pursued expungement?

    Bronson
    I don't qualify for EXpungment under the law in MI

    I am pursuing a Pardon from the Governor
    America Home of the Free BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE ! ! ! !

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    Regular Member kyleplusitunes's Avatar
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    What happens next time you decide to extort someone, instead of grand theft, will you hold them at gun point if your firearms rights are restored?

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    kyleplusitunes wrote:
    What happens next time you decide to extort someone, instead of grand theft, will you hold them at gun point if your firearms rights are restored
    Really? You had to go there?

    If he was a criminal he wouldn't care. I can't even count how many times we've gone over this! If he cares enough to come ask us about the law, he obviously cares enough to abide by it.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  15. #15
    Regular Member CharleyMarbles's Avatar
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    kyleplusitunes wrote:
    What happens next time you decide to extort someone, instead of grand theft, will you hold them at gun point if your firearms rights are restored?
    For the record I was carrying at the time a real nice CZ 75 Check. Service with lanyard loop that I had striped and blued in Germany. I realy loved that Gun and it is the one I am refering to when I say "some I won't beable to replace" I think I also explained I was FULLY versed in the use of deadly force???

    Kyle I hope this makes things clear for you?

    EM87 thank you for your common sence and support it is MUCH appreciated.
    America Home of the Free BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE ! ! ! !

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    I don't fault you for what you did Charley. Maybe for getting caught. :P

  17. #17
    Regular Member CharleyMarbles's Avatar
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    Savage.Detroit wrote:
    I don't fault you for what you did Charley. Maybe for getting caught. :P
    LOL thanx savage for the support but I was wrong I stole the mans property. From now on I will just be beating the hell out of who ever does this kind of thing as that would only get me a misdemener LOL.
    America Home of the Free BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE ! ! ! !

  18. #18
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    CharleyMarbles wrote:
    SNIP

    EM87 thank you for your common sence and support it is MUCH appreciated.
    You're welcome.


    CharleyMarbles wrote:
    Savage.Detroit wrote:
    I don't fault you for what you did Charley. Maybe for getting caught. :P
    LOL thanx savage for the support but I was wrong I stole the mans property.

    EDITED for the OP.
    In reference to the "EDITED for the OP" statement, I know you're only joking, but some people may take that the wrong way. Best not to joke about these things here.

    Sorry to be a downer, but I just want to make sure that you don't receive any more unneeded criticism.

    (I didn't quote your statement in case you decide to remove it from your post too, so it wouldn't be left over in mine.)
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  19. #19
    Regular Member CharleyMarbles's Avatar
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    EM87 wrote:
    CharleyMarbles wrote:
    SNIP

    EM87 thank you for your common sence and support it is MUCH appreciated.
    You're welcome.


    CharleyMarbles wrote:
    Savage.Detroit wrote:
    I don't fault you for what you did Charley. Maybe for getting caught. :P
    LOL thanx savage for the support but I was wrong I stole the mans property.

    EDITED for the OP.
    In reference to the "EDITED for the OP" statement, I know you're only joking, but some people may take that the wrong way. Best not to joke about these things here.

    Sorry to be a downer, but I just want to make sure that you don't receive any more unneeded criticism.

    (I didn't quote your statement in case you decide to remove it from your post too, so it wouldn't be left over in mine.)
    Thanx for the consideration but I was kinda makeing the statement to remind folks that I am NOT a violent person but that in this case the actual act of violence would have had a far better outcome for me? Kinda of ironic IMHO.

    I appreciate you careful and well intentioned thoughts but with this statement I think I have now made abundantly clear what I was intending to express thanx for helping me get that out in the open and clarifyed
    America Home of the Free BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE ! ! ! !

  20. #20
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    No prob. Good luck getting your rights restored!
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  21. #21
    Regular Member kryptonian's Avatar
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    as long as we are admitting past stupid stuff i left a get together at my brother's house in farmington hills. yes i had been drinking. going thru a GREEN traffic light a car making the right turn in front of me cut me off - had to swerve into oncoming lane to avoid the hit but cars headed my way so had to cut back into my lane. fat bitch sped up to block me and i clipped her buick with my pickup. pulled over to exchange info and didn't know she called police. needless to say when officer arrived i had my sister's bersa .380. had CPL but also had .11 BAC. got charged for both. by the time i got to station BAC was .07 but still charged and convicted.

    thru the legal process the gun violation got dropped. had to go thru the hellish aftermath. when i asked for gun back i was told they are keeping it until all my court dates are done. when that time came i went there and said they are not giving it back until they feel like it. that was patrol lieutenant. patrol sarge told me he was going to call lansing and get my CPL removed. it was expiring in a couple months at that time. called city attorney and told him about the sarge calling lansing as a violation of the plea arrangement. sarge emailed the next day saying he will take no action. i went one more time to get it back and same lieutenant said i'm probably never getting it back.
    i emailed the chief, MSP and Mike Cox's office all in the same day. was pissed. said i looked thru michigan weapon laws and they are in violation and someone needs to be criminally charged. don't know who called first but emailed the next day that gun was released. when i picked it up it was in a box with those plastic zip ties locking it down in the box like a kid's toy. across the gun was yellow evidence tape and the magazine as well. ammo was gone too. was big fat pain in the ass to get it all off. waited 3 years and reapplied for CPL and got it back.

  22. #22
    Regular Member CharleyMarbles's Avatar
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    Yeah Krypto thats kinda what I was talking about we ALL make bad diesisions from time to time

    I gotta say I have never even drove Drunk but everyone has his demmons I just have allways driven very large trucks and the thought of my almost 6000 pound truck hitting a compact and killing all inside scared the living... well you know LOL

    I am guilty of calling my brother at 2:30 in the morrning and stammering " Mark? I'm drunk can you come get me?" He ALLWAYS did
    America Home of the Free BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE ! ! ! !

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