• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

hello folks new guy with a question

CharleyMarbles

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
151
Location
Clio, Michigan, USA
imported post

I'm asking around everywhere and thought this is a good place to ask?



What are the members thought's on firearms rights for NON-VIOLENT felons???
 

zigziggityzoo

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,543
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
imported post

CharleyMarbles wrote:
What are the members thought's on firearms rights for NON-VIOLENT felons???

I think this:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

"Every person has a right to bear arms for the defense of himself and the state."
 

cabman1

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
985
Location
Jackson , Michigan, USA
imported post

zigziggityzoo wrote:
CharleyMarbles wrote:
What are the members thought's on firearms rights for NON-VIOLENT felons???

I think this:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

"Every person has a right to bear arms for the defense of himself and the state."

+1
 

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
imported post

zigziggityzoo wrote:
CharleyMarbles wrote:
What are the members thought's on firearms rights for NON-VIOLENT felons???
I think this:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

"Every person has a right to bear arms for the defense of himself and the state."
Very well put Zig - per normal.
 

MarineSgt

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
195
Location
Allendale, Michigan, USA
imported post

If someone is too "dangerous" to posses a weapon, they shouldn't be out on the street.

I feel that once someone's "debt to society" is paid (which it never is unfortunately), meaning their jail/prison time is served, all of the rights they were deprived of when incarcerated should be returned.

Unfortunately our justice system creates second class citizens. A good friend of mine is a felon. He had an unloaded .22 pistol in plain view in his van when he was pulled over (He was unaware that this meant it was concealed in Michigan). After threatening him with years of prison time he pled guilty to a CCW. Felon for life. Land of the free indeed.
 

Savage.Detroit

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Messages
151
Location
Southwest Detroit, Michigan, USA
imported post

MarineSgt wrote:
If someone is too "dangerous" to posses a weapon, they shouldn't be out on the street.

I feel that once someone's "debt to society" is paid (which it never is unfortunately), meaning their jail/prison time is served, all of the rights they were deprived of when incarcerated should be returned.

Unfortunately our justice system creates second class citizens. A good friend of mine is a felon. He had an unloaded .22 pistol in plain view in his van when he was pulled over (He was unaware that this meant it was concealed in Michigan). After threatening him with years of prison time he pled guilty to a CCW. Felon for life. Land of the free indeed.


Agreed.

Any criminal penalty, whether imprisonment, probation, fines, or other loss of rights should be a part of the criminal sentence and should be a definite and appropriately limited. Once the money is paid or the time is done then all rights should be restored.

I think also need to think about reforming our prison system so that it is no longer a criminal university when offenders learn to be better criminals. I haven't thought this out too much but maybe a system where they earn their way out by reaching certain benchmarks. The word rehabilitation is thrown around but seldom actually reached.
 

malignity

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
1,101
Location
Warren, Michigan, USA
imported post

Savage.Detroit wrote:
MarineSgt wrote:
If someone is too "dangerous" to posses a weapon, they shouldn't be out on the street.

I feel that once someone's "debt to society" is paid (which it never is unfortunately), meaning their jail/prison time is served, all of the rights they were deprived of when incarcerated should be returned.

Unfortunately our justice system creates second class citizens. A good friend of mine is a felon. He had an unloaded .22 pistol in plain view in his van when he was pulled over (He was unaware that this meant it was concealed in Michigan). After threatening him with years of prison time he pled guilty to a CCW. Felon for life. Land of the free indeed.


Agreed.

Any criminal penalty, whether imprisonment, probation, fines, or other loss of rights should be a part of the criminal sentence and should be a definite and appropriately limited. Once the money is paid or the time is done then all rights should be restored.

I think also need to think about reforming our prison system so that it is no longer a criminal university when offenders learn to be better criminals. I haven't thought this out too much but maybe a system where they earn their way out by reaching certain benchmarks. The word rehabilitation is thrown around but seldom actually reached.

+1.

Jail should be a scary place. Somewhere people don't want to go. Right now, they have 3 hots and a cot, cable TV, plenty of chance to work out, can pretty much drink and do drugs at will, etc. It's a better life for many people, which is why they commit crime to begin with. If jail was a dungeon cell where you had intense rehab and therapy, and weren't let out until you proved you were truly ready to go, things would probably be different.

The way they are now, rehab means nothing. It reminds me of the last quote of "A Clockwork Orange".


[align=center]"I was cured, all right..."
2s6ttft.jpg

[/align]
 

kryptonian

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
245
Location
, ,
imported post

i remember reading where a felon (tax evasion) appealed the law to michigan supreme court but didn't hear the outcome. saw another one where a guy was having sex with a 16 year old girl (legal in michigan) but took naked pics of her and charged with child pornography.
 

CharleyMarbles

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
151
Location
Clio, Michigan, USA
imported post

I am glad to hear I am not the only one who feels this way.

I guess I being a convicted Non-violent felon am a bit biased but I also feel eminatly qualified to address the situation. I made a very bad disision some 15 yrs. ago, in that I was working for a man who failed to pay me after a few weeks I went to the office and asked for my pay. He stated he didn't have the money to pay me so I in a moment of poor disision makeing picked up his laser level and a gas detector and told him he could have it back when he paid me. THIS WAS WRONG I realized that after I got home and the police showed up and aressted me for grand theft. I never tryed to lie and I was compleatly honest as to what had happned and the story checked out almost word for word with the victoms account of the incident (he didn't mention to them that he owed me pay for work I had performed for his company).

One would think the police could have handled it right there but they fallowed the letter of the law and I was prosicuted for grand theft. Being as I was wrong I admited it and thought shurly the Judge would understand and lessen the charge and just fine me.Nope he did however give me the minimum sentance and allow work release. 180 days confinement and fines and restitution equaling almost TWICE the value of the property. So long story short it cost me nearly $7000.00 and my 2A rights to be honest and admit I was wrong!!!

I will NEVER again speak to a LEO without a lawyer present to speak for me. Even if I did make a bad disision and am guilty.

OK now that you know the whole story my problem is I now have a Wife and 2 daughters to support and defend but I am not ALLOWED to have the tools to defend my family if heaven forbid some violent criminal were to attack us either out side of or inside our home. Further I am religated to DEPENDING on the police to do the job of defending me and my family. I how ever have no recorse against them if they are late to the call and one of my family is seriously hurt or killed as they have NO OBLIGATION to protect us at ALL times. Now I submit that if I am not allowed to secure my family and am FORCED to DEPEND on the police to do the job shouldn't they be culpable if they fail in their job?

Please understand I am NOT anti-police as a matter of fact I HIGHLY respect them for what they do.Ihave had this conversation with many of them (some agree some do not)

I'm also a Veteran of the U.S. ARMY with service in the first Gulf War. I was a weapons trainer qualiferForPonds Security Forces Europe and am fully versed in the safe use of firearms.

Even thought I have been prohibited the use of firearms for the past 15 yrs. I continue to keep abreast of the latest in hardwear via magizines and the laws Via the internet.

So I ask am I a danger to socitey?? Do I and my Family not deserve the right to selfdefence?? Or am I now just a SUB CITIZEN ?????
 

kyleplusitunes

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2009
Messages
532
Location
Lennon Michigan, ,
imported post

What happens next time you decide to extort someone, instead of grand theft, will you hold them at gun point if your firearms rights are restored?
 

EM87

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
986
Location
Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
imported post

kyleplusitunes wrote:
What happens next time you decide to extort someone, instead of grand theft, will you hold them at gun point if your firearms rights are restored

Really? You had to go there?

If he was a criminal he wouldn't care. I can't even count how many times we've gone over this! If he cares enough to come ask us about the law, he obviously cares enough to abide by it.
 

CharleyMarbles

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
151
Location
Clio, Michigan, USA
imported post

kyleplusitunes wrote:
What happens next time you decide to extort someone, instead of grand theft, will you hold them at gun point if your firearms rights are restored?

For the record I was carrying at the time a real nice CZ 75 Check. Service with lanyard loop that I had striped and blued in Germany. I realy loved that Gun and it is the one I am refering to when I say "some I won't beable to replace" I think I also explained I was FULLY versed in the use of deadly force???

Kyle I hope this makes things clear for you?

EM87 thank you for your common sence and support :) it is MUCH appreciated.
 

CharleyMarbles

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
151
Location
Clio, Michigan, USA
imported post

Savage.Detroit wrote:
I don't fault you for what you did Charley. Maybe for getting caught. :p
LOL thanx savage for the support but I was wrong I stole the mans property. From now on I will just be beating the hell out of who ever does this kind of thing as that would only get me a misdemener LOL.
 

EM87

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
986
Location
Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
imported post

CharleyMarbles wrote:
SNIP

EM87 thank you for your common sence and support :) it is MUCH appreciated.

You're welcome. :D


CharleyMarbles wrote:
Savage.Detroit wrote:
I don't fault you for what you did Charley. Maybe for getting caught. :p
LOL thanx savage for the support but I was wrong I stole the mans property.

EDITED for the OP.

In reference to the "EDITED for the OP" statement, I know you're only joking, but some people may take that the wrong way. Best not to joke about these things here.

Sorry to be a downer, but I just want to make sure that you don't receive any more unneeded criticism.

(I didn't quote your statement in case you decide to remove it from your post too, so it wouldn't be left over in mine.)
 

CharleyMarbles

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
151
Location
Clio, Michigan, USA
imported post

EM87 wrote:
CharleyMarbles wrote:
SNIP

EM87 thank you for your common sence and support :) it is MUCH appreciated.

You're welcome. :D


CharleyMarbles wrote:
Savage.Detroit wrote:
I don't fault you for what you did Charley. Maybe for getting caught. :p
LOL thanx savage for the support but I was wrong I stole the mans property.

EDITED for the OP.

In reference to the "EDITED for the OP" statement, I know you're only joking, but some people may take that the wrong way. Best not to joke about these things here.

Sorry to be a downer, but I just want to make sure that you don't receive any more unneeded criticism.

(I didn't quote your statement in case you decide to remove it from your post too, so it wouldn't be left over in mine.)

Thanx for the consideration but I was kinda makeing the statement to remind folks that I am NOT a violent person but that in this case the actual act of violence would have had a far better outcome for me? Kinda of ironic IMHO.

I appreciate you careful and well intentioned thoughts but with this statement I think I have now made abundantly clear what I was intending to express thanx for helping me get that out in the open and clarifyed :)
 
Top