Forests, Parks, Wildlife Refuges, and Cemeteries

peter nap · Jul 9, 2010

virginiatuck said:
You're all welcome. I won't deny that it's been a lot of work, however; I'm an avid fisherman, occasional hunter, and occasional trail rider so this is as much for myself as it is for anyone else. It's not much more effort, beyond the research itself, to summarize and consolidate it into one place for easy reference. It's one way I can give back to OCDO for all the knowledge, support, and insight I've gained from the site and its founders and members.

In a PM reply from Mike, he sort of suggested that I include GMU and VCU regulations. I told him that's a bit outside of the theme. I'd have to expand the theme to be "Administrative Laws" generally, and that theme would include not only GMU and VCU, but Dept. of Health, Dept. of Social Services, etc., and maybe go so far as to include the various Federal agency laws in the CFR. Now THAT would be a lot of work for me. :shocker:

Or, I could just include GMU and VCU in the list and forgo the other agency laws...

Another thing I'm still considering is putting this information in a separate document file and simply attaching it to the site.

What do y'all think?

P.S. If anyone wants to go ahead and do the research, summarization, and citation for any other area or agency, please do; and I'll include it in the original post with credit where credit is due.

I think what you have is fine.
While GMU and VCU are of concern to some people here, it is a separate subject and really has nothing to do with the outdoors. We seem to ignore the fact sometimes that many of us will never set foot there and spend most of our time away from the cities.

Trying to cram every regulation in existence in one database just makes it bloated and difficult to use.

Mt Vernon .40 · Jul 10, 2010

Thanks

Very nice job, thank you.

I first got a "taste" of this about a year ago when attempting -- with what I consider only limited success -- to sort-out the various National Forest restrictions.

You've performed a wonderful service for all; clearly illustrating how numerous and overlapping fields of "Adminstrative UXO" exist even in a "2A-friendly" state like ours.

t33j · Jul 10, 2010

Mt Vernon .40 said:
Very nice job, thank you.

+1

+1 also for sticking with the outdoor theme

virginiatuck · Aug 10, 2010

Public Inland Waters

nova posted 4VAC15-270-40 to another thread today where some discussion was taking place about carrying on the Occoquan and Potomac rivers. The relevant portion of the law is:

"It shall be unlawful to carry a loaded rifle or pistol on a boat or other floating device on the public inland waters for the purpose of hunting wild birds and wild animals; provided, however, that unloaded rifles or pistols may be transported by boat from one point to another."

Should it be added to the original post of this thread for reference? It does clearly state "[...] for the purpose of hunting wild birds and wild animals[.]" I think it's clearly a hunting regulation and does not have any affect on the subject at hand. Can anyone convince me that this law affects the carrying of a handgun for self-defense while in the great outdoors of Virginia?

TFred · Oct 2, 2010

This thread should be a "sticky" until such a time that we can get a preemption-type law in place to standardize the gun carry rules across all state-owned land.

TFred

ocholsteroc · Oct 2, 2010

NVM this was cleared up by Tfred, THANK YOU!

virginiatuck · Jul 7, 2011

Updated again...

I've updated the original post to include the new State Forest carry status.

Is there anything else that's changed that I'm missing in here?

Marco · Jul 8, 2011

Excellent post.

From my experince OC is Okay in the NPs in VA, I've personally tested Shenandoah, Prince William, Manassas Battlefield or a few others.

When renewing our annual pass and on a recent camping trip I OC'ed items we are prohibted from speaking about on this site as well as my G20.

Thundar · Jul 8, 2011

peter nap said:
virginiatuck wrote:

For the most part, hunting season is hunting season. You don't have to be hunting unless there is a case and unload clause when not hunting.

Off season if you are not one of the special class, you should never carry..:lol:. I have heard of some people who accidentally had their gun fall in their pack while gathering their stuff and no one knew.

I thought sure there would be some special gun detector built into the trees.

Quick Scan of DGIF Website:

Hunting season is most of the year. Did not quote all hunting seasons, just the ones that show the limits to the off season.

Crow:
01 Jan-17 March

Late Antlerless Deer:
9 Jan-31 Mar

Spring Turkey:
14 Apr-5May
and
7May-19 May

Spring Squirrel:
2-16 June

Crow:
20 Aug-31 Dec

No Hunting Season (Off Season):

1-13 April

6 May

20 May-1 Jun

17 Jun-19 Aug

= 90 days

Note: not all hunting seasons are open in all counties of the Commonwealth. I don't know if hunting season is in general, or just for the land you are standing on.

I did not look at bow or muzzleloading seasons, only modern firearms seasons.

virginiatuck · Jul 8, 2011

Your quote was attributed to me, but those were Peter Nap's words. Anyway, it's the complexity of hunting seasons and hunting locations that led me to just link to those tables at the government web sites -- right in the prose -- whenever I referred to hunting seasons or hunting areas. For example, http://www.dcr.virginia.gov/state_parks/documents/huntdates.pdf and http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/wmas/ get you to where you need to be in order to check the up-to-date regulations for *that* area and any special regulations for hunting of certain animals. Also, certain DGIF regulations specify which hunting seasons apply to the exceptions to the prohibitions. For example, they might just say "during deer, bear, pheasant, grouse, etc."

Before anyone thinks they may be legal during their weekend-long trip as long as it's during some hunting season, remember that there is no Sunday hunting in Virginia at this time. Species that may be hunted at night may only be hunted until 02:00AM Sunday. I'm not saying the Sunday hunting prohibition would certainly spoil your weekend, but I'm not saying that it wouldn't either.

Thundar said:
Quick Scan of DGIF Website:

Hunting season is most of the year. Did not quote all hunting seasons, just the ones that show the limits to the off season.

Crow:
01 Jan-17 March

Late Antlerless Deer:
9 Jan-31 Mar

Spring Turkey:
14 Apr-5May
and
7May-19 May

Spring Squirrel:
2-16 June

Crow:
20 Aug-31 Dec

No Hunting Season (Off Season):

1-13 April

6 May

20 May-1 Jun

17 Jun-19 Aug

= 90 days

Note: not all hunting seasons are open in all counties of the Commonwealth. I don't know if hunting season is in general, or just for the land you are standing on.

I did not look at bow or muzzleloading seasons, only modern firearms seasons.

virginiatuck · Jul 8, 2011

I just realized something about State Forests. Maybe someone could tell me I'm wrong... :uhoh:

While Dept. of Forestry regulations have been amended to no longer prohibit the lawful carrying of firearms and ammunition, hunting on State Forest land is controlled by the Dept. of Game and Inland Fisheries regulations for the county or counties in which the State Forest resides. See DoF State Forest Hunting page for:
"State Forest hunting regulations and seasons follow those of the county in which the State Forest is located. Check the Virginia Department Of Game and Inland Fisheries (DGIF) Hunting & Trapping Regulations and Information brochure or their website for special restrictions on State Forest lands, such as Either-Sex Deer Hunting Days."

During hunting seasons and in areas designated for hunting within State Forests, would all DGIF regulations continue to have force? And therefore OC in some or all of State Forests is only allowed during lawful hunting seasons when not in a vehicle?

peter nap · Jul 8, 2011

virginiatuck said:
During hunting seasons and in areas designated for hunting within State Forests, would all DGIF regulations continue to have force? And therefore OC in some or all of State Forests is only allowed during lawful hunting seasons when not in a vehicle?

Good question and the answer is no. The hunting regs only apply when hunting.
If you look at the state statute on Sunday hunting, it has a footnote that says something like "mere possession of a gun on Sunday is not enough to establish hunting" I can't look it up right now, the storms have me hanging on line by a thread.

I'm certain that now that Game Wardens are Conservation Cops...one will try to push the issue. During ML and Bow season, don't carry unless you have a CHP. You'll be fine.

Jonesy · Jul 8, 2011

Are the VAC cited sections regulations? Is there a penalty for violation of the provisions? I also see the statutory authority is given to

"promulgate regulations pertaining to the hunting, taking, capture, killing, possession, sale, purchase, and transportation of any wild bird, wild animal, or inland water fish, and the feeding of any game, game animals, or fur-bearing animals as defined in § 29.1-100, or the feeding of any wildlife that results in property damage, endangers any person or wildlife, or creates a public health concern." § 29.1-501A

Could it be argued that the regs do not apply to a weapon carried for self defense, but only apply to hunting as peter nap hints at above? I am more concerned about National Forests.

virginiatuck · Jul 28, 2011

Recursion at its finest...

Jonesy said:
Are the VAC cited sections regulations? Is there a penalty for violation of the provisions? I also see the statutory authority is given to

"promulgate regulations pertaining to the hunting, taking, capture, killing, possession, sale, purchase, and transportation of any wild bird, wild animal, or inland water fish, and the feeding of any game, game animals, or fur-bearing animals as defined in § 29.1-100, or the feeding of any wildlife that results in property damage, endangers any person or wildlife, or creates a public health concern." § 29.1-501A

Could it be argued that the regs do not apply to a weapon carried for self defense, but only apply to hunting as peter nap hints at above? I am more concerned about National Forests.

With respect to the penalty for violation of the DGIF administrative code, 4VAC15-20-70 states "[a]ny violation of any regulation or part of that of the board is made a misdemeanor by §§ 29.1-505 and 29.1-746 of the Code of Virginia and persons convicted of such violation will be punished as provided in said sections or other applicable provisions of the Code of Virginia." And § 29.1-505. Penalty for violation of regulations states that "t shall be a misdemeanor to violate any regulation promulgated pursuant to this title. Any person violating such a regulation shall be guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor unless another penalty is specified." And § 29.1-746. Penalties states that "nless specified otherwise, any person who violates any provision of this chapter or any regulation adopted under this chapter shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor for each such violation."

29.1-746 is part of Chapter 7 and refers only to the chapter, Boating Laws, so that doesn't apply to these "hunting" regulations. 29.1-505, however, refers to the Title, which is Title 29.1 Game, Inland Fisheries, and Boating. Therefore, it appears as though violation of 4VAC15-40-60, which does not specify a penalty, would be a Class 3 Misdemeanor, which is defined in § 18.2-11. Punishment for conviction of misdemeanor. A class 3 misdemeanor is a fine of not more than $500 without any confinement to jail.

nuc65 · Jul 29, 2011

State Park OC

Peter Nap provided the letter that ceases the enforcement of no OC in State Parks in another thread per the order of the governor.

In other words while the administrative rules may state no OC it may not be enforced at this time, therefore one may carry with impunity openly in a state park.

Cmdr_Haggis · Sep 22, 2011

nuc65 said:
Peter Nap provided the letter that ceases the enforcement of no OC in State Parks in another thread per the order of the governor.

In other words while the administrative rules may state no OC it may not be enforced at this time, therefore one may carry with impunity openly in a state park.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if the administrative rules still state that one may not open carry, then that rule goes back into effect when the current governor is no longer governor? Or does the current order carry over? If it carries over, then the next governor could reinstate the rule.

If this is the case, then we should definitely push for the rule to be removed from the books.

(I'm real new at this whole thing, so maybe I'm just completely confused. I still get dizzy trying to figure out if I can open carry in some places when the rules get convoluted and lost in legal mumbo jumbo. "only if A and not B, but C is okay if D is valid. A and B are never permitted on Sunday, unless church has let out, but only when E is agreed upon and D is currently not in effect. Otherwise B is fine, on Tuesday.")

Grapeshot · Sep 22, 2011

Cmdr_Haggis said:
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if the administrative rules still state that one may not open carry, then that rule goes back into effect when the current governor is no longer governor? Or does the current order carry over? If it carries over, then the next governor could reinstate the rule.

If this is the case, then we should definitely push for the rule to be removed from the books.

(I'm real new at this whole thing, so maybe I'm just completely confused. I still get dizzy trying to figure out if I can open carry in some places when the rules get convoluted and lost in legal mumbo jumbo. "only if A and not B, but C is okay if D is valid. A and B are never permitted on Sunday, unless church has let out, but only when E is agreed upon and D is currently not in effect. Otherwise B is fine, on Tuesday.")

Then there are AG opinions and DIFG regulations - it doesn't get any easier does it? But consider the alternative of not taking the time to study and learn the laws, regulations et al.

t33j · Sep 22, 2011

Cmdr_Haggis said:
I still get dizzy trying to figure out if I can open carry in some places when the rules get convoluted and lost in legal mumbo jumbo. "only if A and not B, but C is okay if D is valid. A and B are never permitted on Sunday, unless church has let out, but only when E is agreed upon and D is currently not in effect. Otherwise B is fine, on Tuesday.")

Haha yeah pretty much. Things seem to be slowly getting simpler as time goes by.

Jonesy · Sep 22, 2011

Yah, the national forest prohibitions are really hard to understand, it seems I can oc during hunting season, but only for certain animals, which does not include crow, which seems to really shorten the hunting seasons. Further, it is unclear to me if I am not in violation during non-hunting season if I am not hunting, but am instead hiking. Anyone wanna take a crack at answers?

There are some beautiful spots in GWNF for hiking and camping, I would love some help here.

t33j · Sep 23, 2011

Jonesy said:
Yah, the national forest prohibitions are really hard to understand, it seems I can oc during hunting season, but only for certain animals, which does not include crow, which seems to really shorten the hunting seasons. Further, it is unclear to me if I am not in violation during non-hunting season if I am not hunting, but am instead hiking. Anyone wanna take a crack at answers?

There are some beautiful spots in GWNF for hiking and camping, I would love some help here.

The key bit is, "nor shall it prohibit possession and transport of loaded concealed handguns where the individual possesses a concealed handgun permit as defined in § 18.2-308 of the Code of Virginia."

I.E. If you don't want to worry about hunting seasons and you have a CHP, you may carry but your firearm must be concealed. Carrying a concealed handgun in the woods while hiking over mountains sucks. Doubly so in even slightly humid weather. I've done quite a bit of it in a variety of configurations.

The national parks like SNP do not require CC but the forests are nicer IMO.

Heading out soon? I've been itching to go for the last couple of weeks.

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