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Thread: It was bound to happen sooner or later first bad open carry exp.

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    Regular Member Jay's Avatar
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    Well I guess it was bound to happen sooner or later. Several weeks ago I opened a new bank account at Lake Sunapee Bank on Heater Rd in Lebanon. I have gone in there several times since then open carrying a firearm. Well yesterday as I was standing at the counter conducting my banking business. The bank manager walked over to the window, and said Jay can you please not bring and pointed to the side of her hip. She could see I was not happy by the look on my face, but I said okay and left. Not that I did not want to talk to her about it but if I stayed to talked to her I would have been late for an appointment I was on my way to. So last night I sent her an email which I have attached for you all to review... Any comments or suggestions appreciated... As of this post I have not had a response back from her but as soon as I do I will update.

    Dear Mindy,


    I wanted to speak to you in regards to me and your request to not carry a firearm at your branch while I am doing my banking. I actually wanted to discuss this with you at the time, but had a meeting that I needed to attend and was pressed for time. I am not sending this email to upset you or make you upset however I have a few questions and a couple of statements.

    I was curious if my constitutional protected right to carry a firearm except when doing business at Lake Sunapee Bank was your policy or corporate policy?

    If it is not your policy and it is a corporate policy may I please have the email address of whom I may contact to express my dissatisfaction of this policy?

    With that out of the way I would like to educate you on some facts and personal beliefs I am an advocate for the right to bear arms. I think by my somber way of doing my banking you would have realized I carry in the open, and nothing more. I do not act in an alarming way, I do not play with my firearm, I carry it holstered conduct my business and leave. I carry a handgun for my own personal protection, and so everyone knows I am not afraid to protect myself should the need arise. I hope everyday that need never comes, but I like to know I have it in case it should. I know that I would probably have a better chance of getting struck by lightening then something happening at your bank the exact time that I am there but still it could, and it is nice to know that I am protected. I do have a license to carry a firearm by the police chief even though by state law I am not required to have one because I choose to carry my firearm in the open. If you or corporate do not wish to allow law abiding citizens to carry a firearm while conducting business at Lake Sunapee Bank you should post a sign on your front door so we (law abiding citizens) are aware of it. This is going to sound harsh but I want you to understand where I am going with this. When you post the sign that weapons are not permitted in your bank you should also post a sign that reads "Criminals please come rob us because we do not allow our law abiding banking customers to legally carry firearms while doing business in our bank."

    There are no laws in the state of New Hampshire or at the Federal level that say I can not carry a firearm while in a bank. However with that in mind you and/or corporate is 100% within your right to tell me not to bank with a firearm. If this is your policy I hope you reconsider? If this is corporate policy please disregard this message, and tell me whom I can speak with? If this policy remains in effect I will close my accounts, and take my business else where. There are no hard feelings, but I do not have to agree with your policy and/or use a bank that does not allow me to legally protect myself. I am actually kind of shocked that you told me not to carry because I carry my firearm everywhere I go in the open including my place of employment, and you are the first person to ever tell me I could not carry in their establishment.

    Waiting to hear back from you.


    Regards,


    Jay


    "Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again"

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    Regular Member AL Ranger's Avatar
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    Well, here's to hoping for a positive response in the near future. Maybe some of what you said will actually sink in and make some sense.
    Check out my home page @ www.alabamaopencarry.com and Carry On!

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    Jay wrote:
    <snip>
    If you or corporate do not wish to allow law abiding citizens to carry a firearm while conducting business at Lake Sunapee Bank you should post a sign on your front door so we (law abiding citizens) are aware of it. This is going to sound harsh but I want you to understand where I am going with this. When you post the sign that weapons are not permitted in your bank you should also post a sign that reads "Criminals please come rob us because we do not allow our law abiding banking customers to legally carry firearms while doing business in our bank."
    <snip>
    I would not ask any business to post a sign, even after being asked not to carry a firearm while on their premises. I'd rather not put any ideas in their heads. Once they put up a sign, they have, for all intents and purposes, fully committed to the policy. If the sign was there already, you may not have had the opportunity to carry in there as you did on several occasions and demonstrate responsible and peaceful open-carry. The sign would also deter others from ever openly carrying in there and forcing them to ponder whether their policy was appropriate.

    Other than that, I think your letter was well-written and made good points.

    Here's another thought for you: An opinion that even some anti- or semi-anti-gun people hold is that carrying large sums of money, valuables, or sensitive materials is a valid reason to carry a firearm. When banking, you may be carrying either moderate to large sums of money, valuable or invaluable property, or even sensitive documents that contain personally identifying information that would be devastating to have stolen. The bank may be insured against theft, but you're not. You must be able to defend yourself if someone threatens life or limb to get those things from you.

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    Cant seem to remember the RSA off the top of my head but anyway. If they or any company wishes to make their store/ property a gun free zone they must post signs at all public entry ways in a place that everyone can see and read them. They can even go as far as to make their parking lot a gun free zone ( I have never heard of it unless your a employee and you have to follow the hand book). Second make the letter short and sweet getting to the point asking for a copy of the "NO GUN" rule. Make it clear that if they wish to have such a policy you will be closing your account/account's with them and will be telling friends and family to do the same. I would not wait for her to tell you yes or no this is a HQ policy run a search and find the information your self and call them ( as I will be doing after I'm done posting this I will let you know what they say).

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    Regular Member Jay's Avatar
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    NewHampshireNative2005 wrote:
    I would not wait for her to tell you yes or no this is a HQ policy run a search and find the information your self and call them ( as I will be doing after I'm done posting this I will let you know what they say).
    I wanted to give her a day or two to get back to me because I honestly think this is her policy, and not the policy of the bank. As I have gone into other branches, and have never had any problem
    "Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again"

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    I called after I posted and they told me the people I needed to speak with are in a meeting told them I would call back later. I will call on Monday in the Am we will see if I get the truth or a great line of BS. What I see them telling me is each branch has the right to set it's own rules on top of company rules and it's left up to the branch manager to set his or her own rules for their bank.

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    im just curious but arnt banks federal? just wondering im new to this? is it normaly legal to oc in banks?

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    john118242 wrote:
    im just curious but arnt banks federal? just wondering im new to this? is it normaly legal to oc in banks?
    Just because a banks depositors are insured by FDIC in no way makes the bank a Federal agency.

    Just think of it this way.... If your car is insured by State Farm, is it State Farm's car?
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Regular Member Jay's Avatar
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    john118242 wrote:
    im just curious but arnt banks federal? just wondering im new to this? is it normaly legal to oc in banks?
    Basically like Joe said banks are federally insured, but they are not federally owned. They are privately owned. Therefore federal law that applies to like post offices, federal courts, federal buildings do not apply to banks
    "Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again"

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    By the letter of the law, you can legally carry on federal property for "lawful purposes." But nobody has decided to run through that particular test case.

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    what about police stations? im guessing not federal but just asking to make sure. i saw the video on the whole ridley report and he did it in manchester .

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    john118242 wrote:
    what about police stations? im guessing not federal but just asking to make sure. i saw the video on the whole ridley report and he did it in manchester .
    Damn man, think about what you just asked for one second and you'll answer your own question.

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    lol ya i figured some one would answer that way lol but hey im new to this and at first some one told me ridley report was staged and fake and obviously they where wrong

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    Regular Member Jay's Avatar
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    mvpel wrote:
    By the letter of the law, you can legally carry on federal property for "lawful purposes." But nobody has decided to run through that particular test case.
    Can you please cite statue on this??
    "Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again"

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    NewHampshireNative2005 wrote:
    Cant seem to remember the RSA off the top of my head but anyway. If they or any company wishes to make their store/ property a gun free zone they must post signs at all public entry ways in a place that everyone can see and read them. They can even go as far as to make their parking lot a gun free zone ( I have never heard of it unless your a employee and you have to follow the hand book). Second make the letter short and sweet getting to the point asking for a copy of the "NO GUN" rule. Make it clear that if they wish to have such a policy you will be closing your account/account's with them and will be telling friends and family to do the same. I would not wait for her to tell you yes or no this is a HQ policy run a search and find the information your self and call them ( as I will be doing after I'm done posting this I will let you know what they say).
    No such RSA exists. NH has no such thing called a "gun free zone" You cannot be charged under any RSA (well maybe now in the statehouse? dunno) for carrying a firearm under state laws. You can however be charged with trespassing if you are asked to leave and don't.

    To the OP, find a new bank and close this account. Better yet find a Credit Union.

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    nhsig220 wrote:
    Damn man, think about what you just asked for one second and you'll answer your own question.
    Police stations in New Hampshire are not legally off-limits for lawful carry, and police departments, as political subdivisions of the state, are not legally permitted to ban lawful carry.

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    Jay wrote:
    mvpel wrote:
    By the letter of the law, you can legally carry on federal property for "lawful purposes." But nobody has decided to run through that particular test case.
    Can you please cite statue on this??






    NOTE: This is NOT the law prohibiting POST OFFICE carry. That is at the end of my post.

    Here is the link...

    http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/930.html

    Look here at section 930(d)(3)
    Here I've highlighted it for you.
    (d) is the section of EXEMPTIONS


    (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
    (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

    (2) the possesion of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or

    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.


    I suspect once we get Federal INCORPORATION the Federal inturpretation of the preceding MAY change as currently they don't recognize "SELF DEFENSE" and an "other lawful purpose." One can ALWAYS hope, anyway.


    Here is the part on the POST OFFICE Weapons prohibition

    http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...&TYPE=Text

    Section 232.1(l)

    (l) Weapons and explosives. Notwithstanding the provisions of any
    other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may
    carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either
    openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for
    official purposes.

    Notice it states for OFFICIAL purposes NOT "Other Lawful Purposes" as in the previous law on OTHER Federal Property.

    And not to derail the thread...
    In my quick perusal of section 232.1 I see SEVERAL areas of questionable constitutionality in my mind! But that is a different issue than this thread.

    edited to add the word LAW to the first line of my post and to clarify that the law related to POST OFFICE carry was at the end of my original post! Also edited to make the first section of law I was cutting and pasting ACTUALLY SHOW THE PART I WANTED TO SHOW!



    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  19. #19
    Regular Member Jay's Avatar
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    JoeSparky wrote:
    Jay wrote:
    mvpel wrote:
    By the letter of the law, you can legally carry on federal property for "lawful purposes." But nobody has decided to run through that particular test case.
    Can you please cite statue on this??






    NOTE: This is NOT the law prohibiting POST OFFICE carry. That is at the end of my post.

    Here is the link...

    http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/930.html

    Look here at section 930(d)(3)
    Here I've highlighted it for you.
    (d) is the section of EXEMPTIONS


    (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
    (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

    (2) the possesion of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or

    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.


    I suspect once we get Federal INCORPORATION the Federal inturpretation of the preceding MAY change as currently they don't recognize "SELF DEFENSE" and an "other lawful purpose." One can ALWAYS hope, anyway.


    Here is the part on the POST OFFICE Weapons prohibition

    http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...&TYPE=Text

    Section 232.1(l)

    (l) Weapons and explosives. Notwithstanding the provisions of any
    other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may
    carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either
    openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for
    official purposes.

    Notice it states for OFFICIAL purposes NOT "Other Lawful Purposes" as in the previous law on OTHER Federal Property.

    And not to derail the thread...
    In my quick perusal of section 232.1 I see SEVERAL areas of questionable constitutionality in my mind! But that is a different issue than this thread.

    edited to add the word LAW to the first line of my post and to clarify that the law related to POST OFFICE carry was at the end of my original post! Also edited to make the first section of law I was cutting and pasting ACTUALLY SHOW THE PART I WANTED TO SHOW!


    Thank You very much
    "Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again"

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    Regular Member Jay's Avatar
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    Jay wrote:
    Well I guess it was bound to happen sooner or later. Several weeks ago I opened a new bank account at Lake Sunapee Bank on Heater Rd in Lebanon. I have gone in there several times since then open carrying a firearm. Well yesterday as I was standing at the counter conducting my banking business. The bank manager walked over to the window, and said Jay can you please not bring and pointed to the side of her hip. She could see I was not happy by the look on my face, but I said okay and left. Not that I did not want to talk to her about it but if I stayed to talked to her I would have been late for an appointment I was on my way to. So last night I sent her an email which I have attached for you all to review... Any comments or suggestions appreciated... As of this post I have not had a response back from her but as soon as I do I will update.

    Dear Mindy,


    I wanted to speak to you in regards to me and your request to not carry a firearm at your branch while I am doing my banking. I actually wanted to discuss this with you at the time, but had a meeting that I needed to attend and was pressed for time. I am not sending this email to upset you or make you upset however I have a few questions and a couple of statements.

    I was curious if my constitutional protected right to carry a firearm except when doing business at Lake Sunapee Bank was your policy or corporate policy?

    If it is not your policy and it is a corporate policy may I please have the email address of whom I may contact to express my dissatisfaction of this policy?

    With that out of the way I would like to educate you on some facts and personal beliefs I am an advocate for the right to bear arms. I think by my somber way of doing my banking you would have realized I carry in the open, and nothing more. I do not act in an alarming way, I do not play with my firearm, I carry it holstered conduct my business and leave. I carry a handgun for my own personal protection, and so everyone knows I am not afraid to protect myself should the need arise. I hope everyday that need never comes, but I like to know I have it in case it should. I know that I would probably have a better chance of getting struck by lightening then something happening at your bank the exact time that I am there but still it could, and it is nice to know that I am protected. I do have a license to carry a firearm by the police chief even though by state law I am not required to have one because I choose to carry my firearm in the open. If you or corporate do not wish to allow law abiding citizens to carry a firearm while conducting business at Lake Sunapee Bank you should post a sign on your front door so we (law abiding citizens) are aware of it. This is going to sound harsh but I want you to understand where I am going with this. When you post the sign that weapons are not permitted in your bank you should also post a sign that reads "Criminals please come rob us because we do not allow our law abiding banking customers to legally carry firearms while doing business in our bank."

    There are no laws in the state of New Hampshire or at the Federal level that say I can not carry a firearm while in a bank. However with that in mind you and/or corporate is 100% within your right to tell me not to bank with a firearm. If this is your policy I hope you reconsider? If this is corporate policy please disregard this message, and tell me whom I can speak with? If this policy remains in effect I will close my accounts, and take my business else where. There are no hard feelings, but I do not have to agree with your policy and/or use a bank that does not allow me to legally protect myself. I am actually kind of shocked that you told me not to carry because I carry my firearm everywhere I go in the open including my place of employment, and you are the first person to ever tell me I could not carry in their establishment.

    Waiting to hear back from you.


    Regards,


    Jay

    Well I just wanted to give everyone an update I received a phone call today from Mindy the bank manager from Lake Sunapee Bank. When she received my email she contacted the bank president and their security team. She apologized to me numerous times for being ignorant of the laws of New Hampshire. They do not want to lose me as a customer, and I am (and any law abiding citizen) is more then welcome to carry a firearm when doing my (their) banking at Lake Sunapee Bank, and the bank supports my (our) right to bear arms.
    :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate :celebrate



    "Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again"

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    Congrats! Victory

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    Jay wrote:
    Jay wrote:
    Well I guess it was bound to happen sooner or later. Several weeks ago I opened a new bank account at Lake Sunapee Bank on Heater Rd in Lebanon. I have gone in there several times since then open carrying a firearm. Well yesterday as I was standing at the counter conducting my banking business. The bank manager walked over to the window, and said Jay can you please not bring and pointed to the side of her hip. She could see I was not happy by the look on my face, but I said okay and left. Not that I did not want to talk to her about it but if I stayed to talked to her I would have been late for an appointment I was on my way to. So last night I sent her an email which I have attached for you all to review... Any comments or suggestions appreciated... As of this post I have not had a response back from her but as soon as I do I will update.

    Dear Mindy,


    I wanted to speak to you in regards to me and your request to not carry a firearm at your branch while I am doing my banking. I actually wanted to discuss this with you at the time, but had a meeting that I needed to attend and was pressed for time. I am not sending this email to upset you or make you upset however I have a few questions and a couple of statements.

    I was curious if my constitutional protected right to carry a firearm except when doing business at Lake Sunapee Bank was your policy or corporate policy?

    If it is not your policy and it is a corporate policy may I please have the email address of whom I may contact to express my dissatisfaction of this policy?

    With that out of the way I would like to educate you on some facts and personal beliefs I am an advocate for the right to bear arms. I think by my somber way of doing my banking you would have realized I carry in the open, and nothing more. I do not act in an alarming way, I do not play with my firearm, I carry it holstered conduct my business and leave. I carry a handgun for my own personal protection, and so everyone knows I am not afraid to protect myself should the need arise. I hope everyday that need never comes, but I like to know I have it in case it should. I know that I would probably have a better chance of getting struck by lightening then something happening at your bank the exact time that I am there but still it could, and it is nice to know that I am protected. I do have a license to carry a firearm by the police chief even though by state law I am not required to have one because I choose to carry my firearm in the open. If you or corporate do not wish to allow law abiding citizens to carry a firearm while conducting business at Lake Sunapee Bank you should post a sign on your front door so we (law abiding citizens) are aware of it. This is going to sound harsh but I want you to understand where I am going with this. When you post the sign that weapons are not permitted in your bank you should also post a sign that reads "Criminals please come rob us because we do not allow our law abiding banking customers to legally carry firearms while doing business in our bank."

    There are no laws in the state of New Hampshire or at the Federal level that say I can not carry a firearm while in a bank. However with that in mind you and/or corporate is 100% within your right to tell me not to bank with a firearm. If this is your policy I hope you reconsider? If this is corporate policy please disregard this message, and tell me whom I can speak with? If this policy remains in effect I will close my accounts, and take my business else where. There are no hard feelings, but I do not have to agree with your policy and/or use a bank that does not allow me to legally protect myself. I am actually kind of shocked that you told me not to carry because I carry my firearm everywhere I go in the open including my place of employment, and you are the first person to ever tell me I could not carry in their establishment.

    Waiting to hear back from you.


    Regards,


    Jay

    Well I just wanted to give everyone an update I received a phone call today from Mindy the bank manager from Lake Sunapee Bank. When she received my email she contacted the bank president and their security team. She apologized to me numerous times for being ignorant of the laws of New Hampshire. They do not want to lose me as a customer, and I am (and any law abiding citizen) is more then welcome to carry a firearm when doing my (their) banking at Lake Sunapee Bank, and the bank supports my (our) right to bear arms.
    :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate :celebrate


    doesint it feel great when some one admits there wrong? :celebrate awesome awesome awesome. i absolutely love people who admit it also .

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    As a former NH resident and current NH CCW permit owner, that is great news!

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    Well handled, Jay.

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    Well done!
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
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    O RLY?
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