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Thread: Neenah police blotter

  1. #1
    Regular Member Carcharodon's Avatar
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    I found this in the Post-Crescent news record yesterday (it was actually in Wednesdays paper). I cant find the article online, maybe it takes a few days to get the police reports up, nothing from june 2nd was listed on the website. I'll jut type out the clipping I have.

    Post-Crescent News Record:
    Wed June 2nd 2010:

    Weapon, 600 block of W. Winneconne Avenue. Police handcuffed a 28 year old Colorado woman after she showed up at her ex-husband's residence carrying a holstered handgun. The woman came to drop off the couples children, and the ex-husband felt intimidated by the handgun. Officers determined that the woman was a sheriffs deputy in Colorado. They advised her it was unusual to openly carry a handgun in this area, even for police officers, and released her.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks."
    Thomas Jefferson

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    http://www.postcrescent.com/article/...d-fire-blotter

    Weapon, 600 block of W. Winneconne Avenue. Police handcuffed a 28-year-old Colorado woman after she showed up at her ex-husband's residence carrying a holstered handgun. The woman came to drop off the couple's children, and the ex-husband felt intimidated by the handgun. Officers determined that the woman was a sheriff's deputy in Colorado. They advised her it was unusual to openly carry a handgun in this area, even for police officers, and released her.

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    I would think that WCI would be all over this one.

    The Police blatantly lied to the Colorado Sheriff's Deputy.

    Lying to police is lying to police.



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    J.Gleason wrote:
    I would think that WCI would be all over this one.

    The Police blatantly lied to the Colorado Sheriff's Deputy.

    Lying to police is lying to police.

    What was the lie? That OC is unusual? It's a vague word, so it's not clearly a lie.

    Secondly, the deputy was not conducting official business. Lie all you want to her-- tell her she's pretty and all that....

    So the ex called the police because he was intimidated by her gun? Ha! Intimidated by her! Sounds like that was a good start to the kids' visit.
    A. Gold

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    Campaign Veteran logan's Avatar
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    I can understand why the guy is her ex, being that he's so scared of guns!

    But this story makes me wonder...if she wasn't a police officer, would she have been arrested?


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    logan wrote:
    I can understand why the guy is her ex, being that he's so scared of guns!

    But this story makes me wonder...if she wasn't a police officer, would she have been arrested?

    It's a fair question! One could easily get the implication from the article that once they discovered that she is a LEO that she was released.
    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    It is called discretion, that the judiciary enjoys and that the police abuse.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_discretion

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enforcement_discretion
    Historically, selective enforcement is recognized as a sign of tyranny, and an abuse of power, because it violates Rule of Law, allowing men to apply justice only when they choose. Aside from this being inherently unjust, it almost inevitably must lead to favoritism and extortion, with those empowered to choose being able to help their friends, take bribes, and threaten those they desire favors from.

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    Regular Member AdamXD's Avatar
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    Did the guy know his former wife was a Colorado Sheriff?
    J.A.Salinas
    "Natural Selection is another way of God telling you you're an idiot"

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    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    AdamXD wrote:
    Did the guy know his former wife was a Colorado Sheriff?
    Seems to me that he probably knew but he was trying to be ajerk about situation. If anybody should get in any trouble it should be him. Kudos to her for OCing.
    "To sin by silence, when we should protest makes cowards out of men."
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    johnny amish wrote:
    AdamXD wrote:
    Did the guy know his former wife was a Colorado Sheriff?
    Seems to me that he probably knew but he was trying to be ajerk about situation. If anybody should get in any trouble it should be him. Kudos to her for OCing.
    That is what I meant by lying to police

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    logan wrote:
    But this story makes me wonder...if she wasn't a police officer, would she have been arrested?
    But she WAS arrested. If being put in handcuffs does not equal being arrested then what does?

    This seems to happen a lot in Wisconsin, someone calls the police about someone open carrying, person gets cuffed and questioned, person is then released once the police realize that no crime was committed.

    There is an old saying, "Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action." In this case it becomes harassment. The local police department should know better by know than to place someone open carrying into cuffs. Someone needs to give the PD a poke in the ribs with a sharp lawyer.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    IA_farmboy wrote:
    logan wrote:
    But this story makes me wonder...if she wasn't a police officer, would she have been arrested?
    But she WAS arrested. If being put in handcuffs does not equal being arrested then what does?

    This seems to happen a lot in Wisconsin, someone calls the police about someone open carrying, person gets cuffed and questioned, person is then released once the police realize that no crime was committed.

    There is an old saying, "Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action." In this case it becomes harassment. The local police department should know better by know than to place someone open carrying into cuffs. Someone needs to give the PD a poke in the ribs with a sharp lawyer.
    Being detained is not under arrest. That being said, carrying a firearm is not enough to arrest anyone under the 2nd Amendment.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    IA_farmboy wrote:
    lBut she WAS arrested. If being put in handcuffs does not equal being arrested then what does?

    This seems to happen a lot in Wisconsin, someone calls the police about someone open carrying, person gets cuffed and questioned, person is then released once the police realize that no crime was committed.

    There is an old saying, "Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action." In this case it becomes harassment. The local police department should know better by know than to place someone open carrying into cuffs. Someone needs to give the PD a poke in the ribs with a sharp lawyer.
    http://www.detnews.com/article/20100...hen-challenged

    ACLU alleges Detroit cops retaliate when challenged

    Paul Egan / The Detroit News Detroit -- "It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority" is a quotation often attributed to Benjamin Franklin.
    But two federal lawsuits filed Wednesday by the Michigan chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union say when it comes to dealing with police, citizens inspired by that line might find themselves charged with crimes.
    The lawsuits allege police retaliation, citing instances in which citizens doing nothing wrong were charged with misdemeanors after questioning the authority of Detroit officers who approached them.
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    "The crimes they were charged with were completely made up," said Dan Korobkin, a staff attorney with the ACLU of Michigan. "They still had to show up for court."
    Though the examples cited happened in Detroit, Korobkin said the problem is systemic. "It happens all over, and it's not unique to Detroit," he said.
    Ken Anderson, a U.S. Army veteran, was parked on a side street just east of Woodward on Nov. 12, 2008, using a laptop computer, when an unmarked police car pulled up behind him, activated its lights, and two officers approached him.
    When one of the officers asked for identification, Anderson, 57, asked what "probable cause" they had to stop and question him. One officer said he was parked in "a well-known drug zone."
    Anderson said he verbally resisted handing over his driver's license until one of the officers said he would come into the car and take it.
    Though a check of his license came back clear, Anderson was given a misdemeanor complaint for loitering in a known drug area.
    It's a crime that was on the books at one time but no longer is, Korobkin said. Anderson had to show up both at an arraignment and for his trial date before the complaint was dismissed in 36th District Court.
    "It was more of a retaliatory action for me questioning their authority," said Anderson, a retired car designer who lives in Detroit.
    Deputy Chief John Roach, a spokesman for Detroit police, said he couldn't comment on Anderson's case or another one cited by the ACLU because of the litigation.
    "It is our expectation that all of our officers treat our citizens fairly and within the limitations of the Constitution," Roach said.
    Complaints are investigated and discipline taken against officers found to have acted inappropriately, he said.
    In the other incident, Howell resident Phillip Letten was with a group of people on July 31 distributing booklets about animal cruelty outside Comerica Park when an officer ordered them to stop.
    Letten, 22, and the members of Vegan Outreach stopped handing out the literature. But Letten noted that he was on a public walkway and asked the officer if he could see a copy of the city ordinance that purportedly prohibited him from distributing leaflets without a permit.
    "No, but you can give me your license and I can write you a ticket," was the officer's response, Letten said.
    He was the only one in the group ticketed for distributing fliers without a permit.
    Korobkin said there is no such infraction related to noncommercial fliers. The complaint later filed in court was different, citing Letten with refusing to comply with an "order to stop" and interfering with pedestrian traffic. The charges were later dismissed.
    The officer "altered the misdemeanor complaint himself after he realized that it is not a crime to distribute fliers without a permit," the complaint alleges.
    "I was just standing up for myself, asking the police officer a question, and he didn't like it," Letten said.
    Two examples do not establish a pattern, but Korobkin said the ACLU has received many similar complaints the group does not have the resources to research.
    "This is more of a quiet problem," he said. Most people who experience it don't have the resources to fight back, and therefore, "it's under the radar screen."
    He sees it as a training issue.
    "These are sort of basic American values that you can exercise your rights as a citizen when you are completely innocent of any wrongdoing, and you're not going to find yourself charged with a criminal offense," he said.
    Roach said Detroit police launched a training program on First Amendment issues in August to help them deal with complex scenarios they might see and "act appropriately."
    The ACLU wants a formal declaration that what happened was unconstitutional, plus undisclosed monetary damages for its clients.
    "The main thing we're trying to do with these cases ... is not to win $1 million," Korobkin said. "It's to prevent these things from happening again."


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    protias wrote:
    Being detained is not under arrest.
    Please defend your statement with a legalistic argument.

    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/arrest

    An arrest may occur (1) by the touching or putting hands on the arrestee; (2) by any act that indicates an intention to take the arrestee into custody and that subjects the arrestee to the actual control and will of the person making the arrest; or (3) by the consent of the person to be arrested. There is no arrest where there is no restraint, and the restraint must be under real or pretended legal authority. However, the detention of a person need not be accompanied by formal words of arrest or a station house booking to constitute an arrest.

    The test used to determine whether an arrest took place in a particular case is objective, and it turns on whether a reasonable person under these circumstances would believe he or she was restrained or free to go. A reasonable person is one who is not guilty of criminal conduct, overly apprehensive, or insensitive to the seriousness of the circumstances. Reasonableness is not determined in light of a defendant's subjective knowledge or fears. The subjective intent of the police is also normally irrelevant to a court's determination whether an arrest occurred, unless the officer makes that intent known. Thus, a defendant's presence at a police station by consent does not become an arrest solely by virtue of an officer's subjective view that the defendant is not free to leave, absent an act indicating an intention to take the defendant into custody.

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    protias wrote:
    IA_farmboy wrote:
    logan wrote:
    But this story makes me wonder...if she wasn't a police officer, would she have been arrested?
    But she WAS arrested. If being put in handcuffs does not equal being arrested then what does?

    This seems to happen a lot in Wisconsin, someone calls the police about someone open carrying, person gets cuffed and questioned, person is then released once the police realize that no crime was committed.

    There is an old saying, "Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action." In this case it becomes harassment. The local police department should know better by know than to place someone open carrying into cuffs. Someone needs to give the PD a poke in the ribs with a sharp lawyer.
    Being detained is not under arrest.* That being said, carrying a firearm is not enough to arrest anyone under the 2nd Amendment.
    I agree on both counts. What confuses me is how placing one in handcuffs is not arrest. The legal definition of arrest is somewhere along the lines of one is not free to leave police presence. I would think that placing one in handcuffs means that one is no longer free to leave.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    At the very least it is being detained. That isn't legal unless RAS occurs and open carrying by itself isn't RAS.

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    paul@paul-fisher.com wrote:
    At the very least it is being detained. That isn't legal unless RAS occurs and open carrying by itself isn't RAS.
    IF the ex-husband made false statements over the phone, that gives LEO RAS until they are found to be unsubstantiated.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    J.Gleason wrote:
    I would think that WCI would be all over this one.

    The Police blatantly lied to the Colorado Sheriff's Deputy.

    Lying to police is lying to police.
    I'm sorry I can't find the cite but the police can lie all they want as an investigative tool.

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    Regular Member AdamXD's Avatar
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    paul@paul-fisher.com wrote:
    J.Gleason wrote:

    I'm sorry I can't find the cite but the police can lie all they want as an investigative tool.
    This is correct, but I cannot find the cite either. I think it was back in the 90's when several federal judges said that LOE's are legally allowed to lie to citizens to obtain evidence. All I see when I search google for results is thousands and thousands of articles saying "Police are legally allowed to lie to extract evidence against you or others." Granted, that doesn't make it law, but I will continue to search till I or someone else finds the cite.
    J.A.Salinas
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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    AdamXD wrote:
    paul@paul-fisher.com wrote:
    J.Gleason wrote:

    I'm sorry I can't find the cite but the police can lie all they want as an investigative tool.
    This is correct, but I cannot find the cite either. I think it was back in the 90's when several federal judges said that LOE's are legally allowed to lie to citizens to obtain evidence. All I see when I search google for results is thousands and thousands of articles saying "Police are legally allowed to lie to extract evidence against you or others." Granted, that doesn't make it law, but I will continue to search till I or someone else finds the cite.
    I actually believe it was SCOTUS but I still can't find the citation.

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