• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Who enforces action on local government for violation?

A

Aaron1124

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
2,044
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
imported post

I was just reading the Pierce County court thread regarding their new policies on storage of firearms.

That brings me to my question - Who is responsible for taking legal action against a government agency for being in clear violation of state law? I also notice that state law does not say it is a punishable offense. It says the local legislative authority (the city or county council) must provide the court with a lock box for citizens who are lawfully carrying their firearms.

What happens if they refuse to provide a lock box? Is it up to the citizen to file a suit against the city, or will a state agency pursue this matter?

If a state agency pursues it, what grounds do they have? Again, this does not appear to be a punishable offense. It seems that whenever preemption laws are in affect, or laws that restrict certain government agencies are in affect, there isn't a punishment for their violation.
 
A

Aaron1124

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
2,044
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
imported post

Looks to me like it's up to the citizens to enforce it, by filing a suit and challenging it in court.

Does anyone know if a city court has to determine if a municipal law is in compliance with state law or not? Or is the Mayor and city council full authority on law making in a city?
 
A

Aaron1124

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
2,044
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
imported post

gogodawgs wrote:
deanf wrote:
No, he's not really on it. Different question being asked.

Violation of any portion of RCW chapter 9.41 is a misdemeanor, See RCW 9.41.810.
Click to expand...

Who would you charge with a misdemeanor?
Any violation of any provision of this chapter, except as otherwise provided, shall be a misdemeanor and punishable accordingly.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
The entire county council, the executive, and whoever else responsible for creating an unlawful law? LOL I have no idea.
 
BigDave

BigDave

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
3,456
Location
Yakima, Washington, USA
imported post

Since no one has brought it up and well it is obvious that enforcement comes when you vote to get rid of those who do not abide by the laws.

You should also be able to sue the entity if you have been harmed in some manner but then I would seek a civil attorney on this issue.
 
gogodawgs

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
imported post

Aaron1124 wrote:
gogodawgs wrote:
deanf wrote:
No, he's not really on it. Different question being asked.

Violation of any portion of RCW chapter 9.41 is a misdemeanor, See RCW 9.41.810.
Click to expand...

Who would you charge with a misdemeanor?
Any violation of any provision of this chapter, except as otherwise provided, shall be a misdemeanor and punishable accordingly.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
The entire county council, the executive, and whoever else responsible for creating an unlawful law? LOL I have no idea.
Click to expand...

Well, that is why it is absurd. When rules are passed that violate laws, you need to go to the judicial branch and ask for review. Prudence tells you to first go to the source, i.e. council, et al and seek correction first. This does a couple of things, it puts them on notice and creates a paper trail of the rule and its illegality.

Here is why it would be absurd. I would go to a LEO and ask him to write a ticket to the council members who voted 'for' the rule? NO, that would be silly.

Even in this instance the rule is put in place by an executive. Do you ask a LEO to write the executive a ticket? NO, that would be silly. Did the executive perform this duty with malice? Very unlikely and even if he did it would be difficult to prove. From the looks of the rule, I would gather that a great deal of thought was put into the rules. However, it is fairly uncommon to think of 'sterile carry' and I am sure neither the executive or any attorney that reviewed the rules are aware of 'sterile carry'. We know what sterile carry is because of OCDO. I did not know what it was until a few months ago when I found OCDO.

I would never even have seen this unless barbarino posted the link to the News Tribune, which I read everyday. It is the duty of citizens, watchdog groups, the ACLU, council members that vote no, etc. to take the 'government' to task when errors are made.
 
A

aadvark

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
1,597
Location
, ,
imported post

Wrong..., The State Preemption Law holds them null and void, and hence, Unenforceable and without the Weight of Law.

You could also bring it to the attention of The Washington State Police, and your Local Government Officials that their actions are in clear Violation of Washington State Law.

Every other Law that they make is within the confines and parameters set by The State of Washington, and Firearm-related Laws, in light of Preemption, are no exception.
 
gogodawgs

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
imported post

aadvark wrote:
Wrong..., The State Preemption Law holds them null and void, and hence, Unenforceable and without the Weight of Law.

You could also bring it to the attention of The Washington State Police, and your Local Government Officials that their actions are in clear Violation of Washington State Law.

Every other Law that they make is within the confines and parameters set by The State of Washington, and Firearm-related Laws, in light of Preemption, are no exception.
Click to expand...
Correct. I have notified all government officials (city council, county council, the executive, mayor) and I have notified the Tacoma News Tribune as well. They have put it on their agenda for review. I am sure that the result will be positive, if not I will seek a writ of mandamus to have the court direct them to comply.
 
sudden valley gunner

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
imported post

Aaron1124 wrote:
Looks to me like it's up to the citizens to enforce it, by filing a suit and challenging it in court.

Does anyone know if a city court has to determine if a municipal law is in compliance with state law or not? Or is the Mayor and city council full authority on law making in a city?
Click to expand...

Yep which how almost all lawbreakers where arrested are brought before court before our modern police force was invented.

A citizen used to be able to hire a prosecutor and bring charges up, I was told personally by Whatcom County prosecutor they will only bring charges against someone if it comes through a law enforcement agency. :banghead:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top