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Thread: Open Carry Ban in Coffee Shop Comes Full Circle

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    Regular Member Bobarino's Avatar
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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Bobarino wrote: O.M.G.

    Taking a wild guess from the 5 second snippet of the owner, I'm guessing he's not exactly a firearms enthusiast either.

    So now that's it's been broadcasted over the local news to every street thug in Portland that there will NOT be cops in this particular store, I've got to wonder just what that guy is gonna do when one of them comes in, shoves a gun in his face, & demands money. Since, y'know, it'd be against his principles to call the police & all...:what:
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    I saw that on the news this morning also. My first thought was maybe there is illegal activity going on, then I thought well maybe the cops in that town are losing credibility. After watching the video again I have 2 other thoughts now, either the owner has a personal beef with the cops or he is a liberal activist's using his business to further his agenda. No matter what the case, he better watch himself and hope he doesnt need to call 911.
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    amzbrady wrote:
    I saw that on the news this morning also. My first thought was maybe there is illegal activity going on, then I thought well maybe the cops in that town are losing credibility. After watching the video again I have 2 other thoughts now, either the owner has a personal beef with the cops or he is a liberal activist's using his business to further his agenda. No matter what the case, he better watch himself and hope he doesnt need to call 911.
    http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local...-yLknbXWQ.cspx

    The Portland Police Bureau has had three deadly shootings so far in 2010.

    Aaron Campbell was shot in the back Jan. 29 after refusing to follow orders to lie on the ground. Officers shot non-lethal beanbag rounds at him first, but Campbell still did not comply and actually started to run away from officers when he was shot in the back. He was unarmed.

    Jack Collins was shot multiple times by a Portland Police officer March 22 at the Hoyt Arboretum. Collins, a homeless man with mental issues, was using a razor blade knife to threaten people in the park. Collins did not comply to officers' orders to lie down.

    Portland Police fired 32 shots at Keaton Otis, hitting the 25-year-old 23 times on May 12. Otis lead police on a chase through many Portland city blocks, refusing to pull over despite flashing lights and multiple orders over a loud speaker. Otis still did not comply after he was Tasered twice. Otis pulled out a gun and shot Officer Christopher Burley twice in the leg. That's when other officers unloaded 32 rounds at Otis, hitting him 23 times.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member USMC1911's Avatar
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    Otis, OK, he fired first.

    Collins, OK, he had a knife and may have been threatening.

    But,

    Campbell, WTF ? Shot in the Back, as he was running away, Unarmed? Where was the threat?Seems to go against any use of deadly force I have ever be taught. Ofcourse there is always more to a story then is first seen/heard. With all the facts, this may be ajustifiable homicide.


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    amzbrady wrote:
    either the owner has a personal beef with the cops or he is a liberal activist's using his business to further his agenda.
    I think Anarchist/Communist is more like it: http://redandblackcafe.com/
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    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    NavyLT wrote:
    Well, heck... I don't know about you guys, but cops are the people I trust the least to carry guns!

    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    Regular Member SaintJacque's Avatar
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    While I don't think I would ask a cop to leave my store, I think it depends on local PD and your relationship with them, as well as their reputation. In Federal Way I've had nothing but positive experiences with Federal Way PD, and had some very good pro-carry conversations with King County Sheriffs. But, if I were in Seattle, Portland, Chicago, or some other place where police had committed crimes against citizens and consistently got away with it, I would probably rethink that policy.

    I'm not saying I agree with this guy, I'm just saying I don't know the cops in Portland.

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    Anarcho-Communist is exactly what I thought when I heard the name of the cafe, Red and Black. The flag confirmed it, as did the anti-cop attitude.

    Apparently fair trade coffee is now mightier than the sword. If that doesn't work, I wonder what their back-up plan is.

    After perusing the website, they seem very big on supporting 'democratically' run suppliers and farms. So the Commie angle is likely out. Anarchists.

    An event with free beer supplied by Ninkasi Brewing Company. Ninkasi has an anarchist 'N' as their logo, doubling as the first letter of Ninkasi; oh, and they're from Eugene. Anyone who needs a history lesson, look it up.

    They're beer is overly hopped, anyway.

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    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
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    Guarantee he won't like any of us, either.

    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    killchain wrote:
    Guarantee he won't like any of us, either.
    Sounds like the like to kick out politically incorrect people judging by the website. So if someone refuses to leave, and they don't like cops, exactly what do they do??
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
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    Metalhead47 wrote:
    killchain wrote:
    Guarantee he won't like any of us, either.
    Sounds like the like to kick out politically incorrect people judging by the website. So if someone refuses to leave, and they don't like cops, exactly what do they do??
    Seriously.

    If I were a business owner and a few officers wanted to buy my stuff and get to know me, I'd be more than happy to sell them what I got and get to know them.

    [ EDIT: I said the same thing in a different sentence. Whaeva. :P ]
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    geojohn wrote:
    I think Anarchist/Communist is more like it: http://redandblackcafe.com/
    Anarchism and communism are practically polar opposites.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

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    Not really, anarchy is the lack of government, but not in the way some of the punk bands and anarchists want us to think with mayhem in the streets. The ideal goal of Communism is very similar to the goal of political anarchy, the people holding each other accountable with a very minimal or non-existent government and all working together toward a common goal of peaceful co-habitation with each other.

    I guess those 4 years of Poli Sci classes paid off.

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    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
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    What would the owner have done if Crooker hadn't left.... call the cops?

    ETA: I have to side with the cop on this one. He was just getting a cup o Joe. He wasn't doing anything wrong. It sounds like he was asked to leave because of the gun. Like someone else has already said, They wouldn't like us much, either.

    I voted "no" on the poll.
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    Regular Member John Hardin's Avatar
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    aktion wrote:
    After perusing the website, they seem very big on supporting 'democratically' run suppliers and farms. So the Commie angle is likely out.
    Don't count on it. Communists seem to mean something different than everyone else does when they use the term "democracy". Witness the full name of North Korea is the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea".

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    Oh I bet the crooks are loving this one. I'm going through the scenerio in my head laughing my arse off.

    On those shootings that were listed above 2 were obvious good shoots. People need to realize that cops have to protect themselves as well as the public. The one in the back, that one ain't going to fly well. You can't go grouping everyone into the same picture just because they have a badge on. I was expecting to see a plain clothes cop getting tossed out not a uniformed one. That just blows my mind.



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    Pulled off thier website:

    "This month, the film is a fundraiser for the Red and Black, which is still struggling financially and could use the support of the community. So please come out and show some support, see a wonderful movie, and enjoy some delicious food and drink!"



    No wonder they took the cops money and THEN kicked him out. I hope the boycott goes well. :-)



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    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    John Hardin wrote:
    aktion wrote:
    After perusing the website, they seem very big on supporting 'democratically' run suppliers and farms. So the Commie angle is likely out.
    Don't count on it. Communists seem to mean something different than everyone else does when they use the term "democracy". Witness the full name of North Korea is the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea".
    Communists love Democracy because they can manipulate the people into voting against their own self interest. The goal of commies in bringing down our country has been to first, turn it into a Democracy... then.... move it into a Communist State. Problem is... whenever they get too much power, they employ force against the people to implement their will... which is what we're now seeing happen with the Statists who have been controlling our government. Don't obey them... they jail you... resist their attempts to jail you and they murder you.
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    Vandal wrote:
    Not really, anarchy is the lack of government, but not in the way some of the punk bands and anarchists want us to think with mayhem in the streets. The ideal goal of Communism is very similar to the goal of political anarchy, the people holding each other accountable with a very minimal or non-existent government and all working together toward a common goal of peaceful co-habitation with each other.

    I guess those 4 years of Poli Sci classes paid off.
    Anarchy is a society absent a government. Communism is a society where the government has almost complete control its basically a form of totalitarianism.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    What I think would be cool is if they then let regular open carriers in.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member John Hardin's Avatar
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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    What I think would be cool is if they then let regular open carriers in.
    Which would be a more faithful Anarchist behavior.

  23. #23
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    John Hardin wrote:
    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    What I think would be cool is if they then let regular open carriers in.
    Which would be a more faithful Anarchist behavior.
    Exactly.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
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    oops

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    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
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    I just think he was enforcing the Cafe's policy:

    http://redandblackcafe.com/safer-space-policy/
    Safer SpacePolicy We strive to eliminate any oppressive actions, behaviors, and language in this space. These include, but are not limited to, racism, sexism, ageism, sizeism, classism, ableism, transphobia and heterosexism. We want this to be a comfortable space for everyone. Please feel free to approach a collective member in confidence should anyone here make you feel unsafe.
    The following behaviors must result in 86-ing:
    * OLCC violations (suchas bringing outside alcohol onto the premises or giving beer to minors)
    * Theft of money or property
    * Violating our Safer Space Policy
    * Physical, verbal, or mental abuse
    * Sexual harassment
    The following behaviors may result in 86-ing, at the discretion of the worker(s) present:
    * Inappropriate / unwelcome comments and behaviors
    * Disruptive or disrespectful behavior
    * Causing a worker or patron discomfort or distress for any reason (including violating our Safer Space Policy)


    BTW, I've never been there, but I believe the "Red and Black" refers to the red wine selection and coffee.

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