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Thread: Time to start ending people's employment.

  1. #1
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    I've read it a thousand times on here: "Asked to leave Wal-Mart" or "Asked to leave Cabela's" or "Asked to leave (insert place)".

    I know going negative is never a fun option. I prefer to write letters, drop comments, and contact superiors whenever I receive exemplary treatment from employees and public servants. Positive reinforcement works ten times better than negative complaining. Therefore, if I have someone treat me nicely (or heck, even just plain normally) while I'm OC'ing, I will often go out of my way to inform their supervisor of their welcome behavior. This does a better job of ensuring that it continues.

    That being said, I think it's about time that treating OC'ers in a hateful manner, or furthering an anti-gun attitude at our expense meets with a little negative action.

    Every time I read about someone being asked to leave Wal-Mart, or any other business that supposedly has a "we obey the local law" policy, I think:

    It's about time we start asking these individuals kicking us out of these "pro 2A" businesses for their personal information, and informing their supervisors of their rude and insulting behavior.

    All it takes is:

    Employee: "Excuse me sir, but you'll have to leave/take your gun outside/disarm."

    OC'er: "I'd be glad to. Could I get your name?"

    Let's start taking the time to write about the rude and offensive treatment to their superiors. Maybe if we can get these folks fired, they'll be less of them to treat us as second class citizens in these supposedly "pro-gun" establishments.

    Come on! Say it with me! Make it a habit!

    "I'd be glad to leave. Could I have your name please?"

    Then write that letter!

  2. #2
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    OK. but how about asking that person then and there "can I see your manager?" Dont bother trying to educate that person, that would be the managers job.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    bigdaddy1 wrote:
    OK. but how about asking that person then and there "can I see your manager?" Dont bother trying to educate that person, that would be the managers job.
    Exactly.Once you start asking for the person's name, sooner or later you're going to come across someone that will interpret the request as a threat. Next thing you know, you're surrounded by men in black pajamas and MP5's.

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    canadian wrote:
    Exactly.Once you start asking for the person's name, sooner or later you're going to come across someone that will interpret the request as a threat. Next thing you know, you're surrounded by men in black pajamas and MP5's.
    Vietnamese Wally-World? Why would I be surrounded by Viet Cong?
    sooner or later you're going to come across someone that will interpret the request as a threat.


    How so? They can interpret "Could I please get your name" in any manner they wish. These Viet Cong with MP5's can surround me all day long. As long as the person has the authority to request my departure from the premises, thet are assuming an authoritative role. By assuming authority, they MAKE THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE.

    One cannot be an authority in anonymity. There are no anonymous authority figures. You cannot speak from a position of authority while remaining unaccountable.

    I don't think a jury in the world would be able to convict using a request for identification as anything other than a request. (What charge would these VC haul me off for, anyhow? All that can happen is I will be charged wih trespassing for refusal to leave the premises, but....oh yeah, I have already agreed to leave, so no trespassing charge.)

    Because if they did, I'll be suing quite a few police officers. I've had them request my identification quite a few times. In the majority of these cases, I've felt threatened by it.

    How many cops have been fired for asking for identification?

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    Superlite27 wrote:
    canadian wrote:
    Exactly.Once you start asking for the person's name, sooner or later you're going to come across someone that will interpret the request as a threat. Next thing you know, you're surrounded by men in black pajamas and MP5's.
    Vietnamese Wally-World? Why would I be surrounded by Viet Cong?
    sooner or later you're going to come across someone that will interpret the request as a threat.


    How so? They can interpret "Could I please get your name" in any manner they wish. These Viet Cong with MP5's can surround me all day long. As long as the person has the authority to request my departure from the premises, thet are assuming an authoritative role. By assuming authority, they MAKE THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE.

    "Hello police? There's a man in my store. He has a gun and he's demanding my name."

    It's not that your request is a threat (it's not). It's that sooner or later, the person behind the counter will intepret it as a threat.

    Superlite27 wrote:
    One cannot be an authority in anonymity. There are no anonymous authority figures. You cannot speak from a position of authority while remaining unaccountable.
    Beg your pardon? Been to a public event recently? Do you really think all those nice men in black pajamas and belaclavas demanding that you turn out your pockets and empty your backpack will give you their names?

    Superlite27 wrote:

    I don't think a jury in the world would be able to convict using a request for identification as anything other than a request. (What charge would these VC haul me off for, anyhow? All that can happen is I will be charged wih trespassing for refusal to leave the premises, but....oh yeah, I have already agreed to leave, so no trespassing charge.)
    I'm not talking about convictions. I'm talking about subjecting yourself to an unpleasant and possibly leathal encounter with the Gestapo.


    Superlite27 wrote:

    How many cops have been fired for asking for identification?
    We're not talking about cops. We're talking about us mere mortals.

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    bigdaddy1 wrote:
    OK. but how about asking that person then and there "can I see your manager?" Dont bother trying to educate that person, that would be the managers job.
    But, do not linger to argue or badger if refused. It is my understanding that not leaving after being asked by an owner or his agent leads into trespassing.

    The agent may go along with the request to see a manager or supervisor, in which case he would seem to be withdrawing his request you leave.

    But, if he refused my request for a manager, I would head for the door, inviting him to walk and talk with me on my way out.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    bigdaddy1 wrote:
    OK. but how about asking that person then and there "can I see your manager?" Dont bother trying to educate that person, that would be the managers job.
    But, do not linger to argue or badger if refused. It is my understanding that not leaving after being asked by an owner or his agent leads into trespassing.

    The agent may go along with the request to see a manager or supervisor, in which case he would seem to be withdrawing his request you leave.

    But, if he refused my request for a manager, I would head for the door, inviting him to walk and talk with me on my way out.
    While leaving any purchases in the isle, and the perhaps one of those "u lost my biz" cards
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    bigdaddy1 wrote:
    While leaving any purchases in the isle, and the perhaps one of those "u lost my biz" cards
    Don't know about you, but I can't afford to travel to any isle's just to go shopping. Plus, I get sunburned easy. And the sand chafes. :P
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    cant get any lower then working for walmart and if they get fired target will hire them

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    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
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    erichonda30 wrote:
    cant get any lower then working for walmart...
    :X

    I've been there three years, and it's by far the best company I've ever worked for. I would recommend you keep you personal attacks (even general ones) to yourself. kthx
    There was a time that the pieces fit, but I watched them fall away, mildewed and smoldering, strangled by our coveting. I've done the math enough to know the dangers of our second guessing. Doomed to crumble, unless we grow and strengthen our communication. -Tool, "Schism"

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    I'm not going to beat up on working people, not even over this issue.

    Letters make sense, and politeness makes sense. And the reason it makes sense is if you approach it this way, you can win multiple victories:

    (a) You can get the policy peacefully communicated down the line to employees without destroying someone's life in the process.

    (b) Be being nice you give a good example of what open carry people are or are supposed to be like. We want people not associating guns with mean people. What will a fired Wal Mart employee tell his friends? He will carry a chip on his shoulder forever.

    I find the idea of trying to get people fired over this, when we're trying to change the way our whole culture sees guns and gun owners, to be not only counterproductive, but offensive and mean-spirited.

    I don't like the way businesses treat open carryers any more than anyone else here does. But tact and decency go a long way. Especially with working class people.

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    When we react, we need to examine our motives. Are we after correction or revenge?

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    walmart is destroying america by sending jobs over to china mexico wherever

    they are anti worker andanti union

  14. #14
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    I cant remember what movie it was from, but the quote was;

    If you kill him, he wont learn nothing.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    erichonda30 wrote:
    walmart is destroying america by sending jobs over to china mexico wherever

    they are anti worker andanti union
    Ain't Liberty wonderful? I happily give Wal-Mart a lot of business.

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    mcdonalk wrote:
    erichonda30 wrote:
    cant get any lower then working for walmart...
    :X

    I've been there three years, and it's by far the best company I've ever worked for. I would recommend you keep you personal attacks (even general ones) to yourself. kthx
    not attacking you

    just a company that is shutting down american manufacturing one plant at a time

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    erichonda30 wrote:
    mcdonalk wrote:
    erichonda30 wrote:
    cant get any lower then working for walmart...
    :X

    I've been there three years, and it's by far the best company I've ever worked for. I would recommend you keep you personal attacks (even general ones) to yourself. kthx
    not attacking you

    just a company that is shutting down american manufacturing one plant at a time
    Bull. Your comment was a clear slap at anyone and everyone working at Wal-Mart. Shame on you.

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    i have gone into a walmart for the subway that is in there and also to take a chit from time to time

    but thats all

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    We get it. You hate Wal-Mart. However, there was no need to insult those who work for Wal-Mart.

    On the other hand, I love Wal-Mart. They are the corporate embodiment of Liberty.

    But, this is totally OT. This forum is about OC. This topic is discussing possible reactions to an employee who acts in an anti-OC way.

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  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    I work for a national retailer, one of the 3 office supply company's, with over 1000 stores nationwide.

    I am a store manager. The decisions regarding removing someone from my store are my decisions only. (As my practice the only reason I have ever asked people to leave my store is they are belligerent, physically a threat or are stealing or damaging property.)

    I have had (non)customers ask my employee's for their names. (I guess they can't read a name badge) I have always only given out MY NAME. I am responsible for the building. My name is on the wall. Any issues can be resolved by me the store manager. But once you are asked to leave ANDasked a 2nd time....leave. I have walked people out to the sidewalk. They have asked for my last name. No, my first name and the location of the store is enough information to make a complaint to corporate. My personal information is not your business. I always ask that they call me the next day, after everyone has had a chance to think about the situation. There is nothing immediate or time sensitive about any interaction in retail.

    Our best approach is to get the store manager's name, location, and call the store manager the next day. Then call or write corporate to get the response. If you can talk with the store manager/general manager at the time that would be ideal. Assistant managers are not the best person to talk with. But get their name so when you talk with the store manager you have facts.


    Live Free or Die!

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    erichonda30 wrote:
    walmart is destroying america by sending jobs over to china mexico wherever

    they are anti worker andanti union
    It's not WM that send jobs overseas, it's the US gov't, with over regulation, high taxes
    and unions, with wage inflation.

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    and consumers that could give a chit less about buying american made

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    erichonda30 wrote:
    and consumers that could give a **** less about buying american made
    Yep. I go for the quality I want at the lowest price. I don't care who makes it. If American labor has priced itself out of the market, that's its own stupid fault. I believe in Free Markets and Liberty. Americans used to believe in these ideas, too.

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