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Thread: Lazerfest trespassing

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    Post Lazerfest trespassing

    My neighbors and myself had people trespassing to relieve their body fluids (and solids) onto our property during lazerfest in Indianola. My property would have been one of the worst hit if I had not been home to protect my property from 300+ people with this intent. It is a long story why things are this way. So just take my word for it for now. All that as background to say this: This isn't Texas. It is Iowa. It would be unwise to carry a shot gun and scabbard strapped to my back - legal or not. HOWEVER, I'd like to know - just for the sake of discussion, when a concealed carry permit is in my possession - is open carrying on my own property then still called "brandishing"?

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    Welcome to OpenCarrydotorg (OCDO)!!!!

    Over people relieving themselves on your property?

    No offense, but I think that using a gun to plant the seed of worry about potential lethal force is a bit strong.

    Only if you really thought there might be trouble. And then it would be hard to argue that you could not have avoided the lethal force confrontation if one occurred and if avoidance is part of your state's self-defense statutes or court opinions.Carrying a gun, shall we say ostentatiously, to discourage misdemeanorsand so forth is not really thebest approach.

    I'm thinking it would be better to take it up with Lazerfest that they need to provide restroom facilities.

    Then put up signs saying police dogs are on hand to sniff the waste for drugs. I'll bet most of your problem disappears on the spot, while throwing business to the local filling stations.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    xious wrote:
    My neighbors and myself had people trespassing to relieve their body fluids (and solids) onto our property during lazerfest in Indianola.* My property would have been one of the worst hit if I had not been home to protect my property from 300+ people with this intent.* It is a long story why things are this way.* So just take my word for it for now.* All that as background to say this:* This isn't Texas.* It is Iowa.* It would be unwise to carry a shot gun and scabbard strapped to my back - legal or not.* HOWEVER, I'd like to know - just for the sake of discussion, when a concealed carry permit is in my possession - is open carrying on my own property then still called "brandishing"?*
    Iowa does not have a concealed carry permit, it's more properly called a permit to carry dangerous weapons. The law does not make a distinction between concealed carry and open carry of a firearms when in city limits, either way you need a permit. The law does not make the distinction between open and concealed carry of a weapon when you are on private property, it's the permission of the owner that matters. As long as you stay on your property you may open carry without a permit. Once you pass from your property onto public property then you need a permit to carry to lawfully open carry a firearm.

    I don't know how Iowa code defines "brandishing" and a quick search didn't help in that regard. A holstered sidearm or a long arm slung over your back would seem to be outside the definition of "brandishing" by any reasonable person. Problem is that "reasonable persons" might be lacking in your jury.

    Getting legal advice online is unwise but I can try to point you in the right direction. I have the following link in my bookmarks for occasions such as this. Notice the link is likely old, but I believe the code is still current. The laws did change recently but will not go into effect until January.

    http://www.legis.state.ia.us/IACODE/2003SUPPLEMENT/724/

    I hope I was helpful. Good luck.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Being armed on your own property, openly or concealed, is protected by layers of laws.

    But if the sight of the firearm (you sitting or standing or walking around in your yard, very obviously watching the people walking past) doesn't deter the drunks from... well... shooting them isn't the answer.

    Everyone knows you should wash up after "going", right? So hit 'em with a blast from the hose. Unless you think they'd like it. (If it's a warm summer night.)

    Seriously, though, I'd contact the event managers & police & maybe your elected representative (we have Aldermen here) to get something more substantial done about the problem.
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    I'm thinking of a sign that says; "Warning, pit bull does not like having to remark his territory." Or maybe a few well tossed strings of firecrackers....
    Lower the crime rate by lowering the criminal survival rate!
    When people say 'God Bless America' I'm sure He says, "I gave you Texas!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark-in-texas View Post
    I'm thinking of a sign that says; "Warning, pit bull does not like having to remark his territory." Or maybe a few well tossed strings of firecrackers....
    Get a dog.

    Get a big dog.

    Put him on a big chain.

    Put him on a chain that just reaches the edge of your property.

    Give him enough chain to get a running start.

    Let him run to the end of his chain and scare the living...... out of them.

    I also like the hose Idea.

    However, the police may be able to do something more legal about the whole thing.

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    Cool Scare the living...

    Tucker,

    I think that was his orginal problem..

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lthrnck View Post
    Tucker,

    I think that was his orginal problem..
    HA! True.

    Ive got a better idea.

    Electric fence..........

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    Better yet

    Electric fence that "accidentally" got knocked down and is difficult to see when intoxicated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 357Sig@SigP239 View Post
    Electric fence that "accidentally" got knocked down and is difficult to see when intoxicated.
    Two problems with that.

    1) Would be illegal as there is intent to cause harm before the fact - much like rigging a shotgun to your front door to deter robbery.

    2) An electric fence down on the ground will not function - it will go to ground at the earliest contact point in the circuit rendering the rest useless. Would likely have tripped the breaker anyway.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Two problems with that.

    1) Would be illegal as there is intent to cause harm before the fact - much like rigging a shotgun to your front door to deter robbery.

    2) An electric fence down on the ground will not function - it will go to ground at the earliest contact point in the circuit rendering the rest useless. Would likely have tripped the breaker anyway.

    Too bad. That could have been the cure.

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    Lazerfest 2011

    Thank you everyone for your inputs. It has been a year now. I have the solution. Next year I am hiring off duty policemen to chase off the offenders who want to leave their blood-born pathogens on a building I have to paint this year. This year I charged an exorbitant amount of money for parking as a partial deterent. So I got a somewhat higher class crowd driving nice cars. Most of them seemed to have a respect for property. My motto on this topic now is: I either repell the crowd - or work the crowd. Perhaps I should add to that pithy saying: ....so I decided to BOTH repel and work the crowd. ... One last thing to add: 'no trespassing' signs have no measurable effect whatsoever.

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    the electric fence idea

    A cop told me this one: There is one work-around for the electric fence = booby trap litigation problem. Get some livestock. All it takes is one animal to justify having the electric fence (and no trespassing signs added for good measure). This IS the countryside after all. Just don't leave your fingerprints on the hand-written, anonomously placed, "pee on this" sign. There are people in this crowd stupid enough to do what the sign says.

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    Yes, that is the reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Welcome to OpenCarrydotorg (OCDO)!!!!

    Over people relieving themselves on your property?

    No offense, but I think that using a gun to plant the seed of worry about potential lethal force is a bit strong.

    Only if you really thought there might be trouble. And then it would be hard to argue that you could not have avoided the lethal force confrontation if one occurred and if avoidance is part of your state's self-defense statutes or court opinions.Carrying a gun, shall we say ostentatiously, to discourage misdemeanorsand so forth is not really thebest approach.

    I'm thinking it would be better to take it up with Lazerfest that they need to provide restroom facilities.

    Then put up signs saying police dogs are on hand to sniff the waste for drugs. I'll bet most of your problem disappears on the spot, while throwing business to the local filling stations.
    I was only playing with the concept. You are absolutely correct. It is going overboard to make the statements that I did. Exageration is what comedy is all about. I have no desire to spend time in jail because I escalated someone's committing a misdemeanor with my felony. Yes, you are right.

    Speaking of comedy: misdemeanor = da more dey miss da meaner dey get

    And oh, yeah, a buddy of mine said the same thing you did about the drug sniffing dog angle. Good comedy there. The drunks this year were hilarious. The prat falls needed to be on camera. I need to find an instant-on camera because these "Kodak Moment" face-plants-in-the-mud go fast.

    One last thing. Talking to the Lazerfest people was partly successful. They placed one more Kybo out. Just one.
    Woo Hoo.

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    One should not need livestock to justify an electric fence. I recall seeing electric fences not for keeping livestock in but to keep the wildlife out. The wildlife fencing is typically different in that instead of using a wire it has a wide conductive, and very visible, band. The band is a cloth with wires woven into it. This is not as popular as the wire since it is more expensive and does not allow for the use of "weed burner" fencers. The weed burner fencers are made to burn through weeds that can grow up to short out the wires, this also has the potential to burn the cloth band.

    Put up an electric fence to keep out the "deer" that keep soiling your lawn. Put up some signs on the fence to warn people that it is energized.

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    The Mythbusters demonstrated the urinating on an electric fence (actually, the third rail) won't result in a shock up the stream. Too many individual droplets in the stream.

    Although, as a teacher, I liked to ignore that reality and tell my students that there are three ways that folks learn: Some learn by listening to the advice of others. Some learn by observing the mistakes of others. Most learn by urinating on the electric fence themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The Mythbusters demonstrated the urinating on an electric fence (actually, the third rail) won't result in a shock up the stream. Too many individual droplets in the stream.

    Although, as a teacher, I liked to ignore that reality and tell my students that there are three ways that folks learn: Some learn by listening to the advice of others. Some learn by observing the mistakes of others. Most learn by urinating on the electric fence themselves.

    Mythbusters needed to talk to a fellow with whom I went to high school, in a rural area (lots of electric fences). He would tell them they are full of BS. And that it hurts a lot.

    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurlyWolf View Post
    Mythbusters needed to talk to a fellow with whom I went to high school, in a rural area (lots of electric fences). He would tell them they are full of BS. And that it hurts a lot.

    I would tell them the same thing. Taking a leak in the bushes in my friends horse area. Got a good lesson about looking carefully where I whiz.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 05-23-2011 at 09:16 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    could always install motion sensor spotlights where they "go" noone even drunk wants to relieve themselves with a 1M candlepower spotlight just illuminating them and their "activities" lol
    i would rather run out of blood, breath and life. and die fighting. than run out of ammo , and die with my pants down -Tom Scantas

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