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Thread: State Residency for OC?

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    Hey, folks. I've used this website countless times for informational purposes, but this time it seems I can't find an answer that really satisfies me, and open carrying is not the kind of thing that leaves a lot of room for grey areas. I want to make sure I have myself in the right before OCing, so I registered to ask a question.

    I am currently a resident of Illinois (shudder). I moved here to Marion County, Kentucky with my wife. Here are a few facts about me to clarify:

    I'm 21 years old, with a spotless criminal record. I do not have a FOID card, which is essentially mandatory in Illinois to even think aboutassociating someone who may have at some point seen a gun in their lifetime. That's a bitter exaggeration, of course, but a FOID card is required to own a gun, and OCing is, to my knowledge, totally illegal.

    I've lived in KY for about a week, and one of the first things I did was purchase a handgun from a friend via private sale.Here's where my questions pop up.

    Number one: since I do not have a KY driver's liscence, I've heard rumors that I will be dealt with according to Illinois law. Now, I BELIEVE I'm in the clear as far as KY law is concerned, other than not having a KY liscence/ID. But if I'll be treated according to IL law because I'm still an IL resident, then me owning this gun, let alone OCing it, is totally illegal. Thoughts on this?

    Number two: If my purchase of the gun was NOT illegal, than I should be able to OC even though I'm not legally a KY resident yet, correct? Or do I have to become a resident (i.e., get my KY driver's liscence) before I can OC?

    Those are my querries. I've seen some threads on here that have answered some other curiosities I've had on the subject, but these questions are a little too specific to be answered by threads that involve other states. Any help is very appreciated.

    The above is my previous post, available here.In a nutshell, I need to know if I have to be a KY resident-- that is, have a KY ID-- in order to OC here. I was referred to this thread by someone in my original topic. Help?

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    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    Nope. There is no requirement in the Commonwealth's constitution that says you must be a resident. Anyone can open carry. Anytime.
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    Sick. I was hoping for that. I've been told that if you can legally own, you can legally carry. So, I have a follow-up.

    Basically what happened was my sis-in-law bought two pistols, which I helped her pick out. After teaching her to shoot, helping her manage her guns, and filling her in on some of the laws that I know about as well as directing her to various places online, she fell in love with one gun and decidedto offer the other gun to me for sale. I pounced.

    I know private sales like this are legal and common, but I want to make absolutely sure that there's no harm, no foul here. It would be bad enough for me to get into trouble for an illegal sale, but I certainly wouldn't want it to come back and bite her in the ass for doing me a favor.

    The reason I ask is because I can't legally purchase a firearm from a federal vendor in KY because I'm not a resident. At least, that's what the gun shops have been telling me. >_> Am I all legal'd up?

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    Tribunal Power wrote:
    Sick. I was hoping for that. I've been told that if you can legally own, you can legally carry. So, I have a follow-up.

    Basically what happened was my sis-in-law bought two pistols, which I helped her pick out. After teaching her to shoot, helping her manage her guns, and filling her in on some of the laws that I know about as well as directing her to various places online, she fell in love with one gun and decidedto offer the other gun to me for sale. I pounced.

    I know private sales like this are legal and common, but I want to make absolutely sure that there's no harm, no foul here. It would be bad enough for me to get into trouble for an illegal sale, but I certainly wouldn't want it to come back and bite her in the ass for doing me a favor.

    The reason I ask is because I can't legally purchase a firearm from a federal vendor in KY because I'm not a resident. At least, that's what the gun shops have been telling me. >_> Am I all legal'd up?
    You can only legally purchase a handgun in the state you are a legal resident in. You can purchase a long gun from your state of residence or any state contingent to your state of residence. If you are not a legal resident of the Commonwealth you can not purchase a handgun here. Nothing says you can't borrow it to carry while here
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    Hm. So would it be a safe, sound practice to OC right now with my 'borrowed' firearm? Or if a LEO accosts me, am I bound for some kind of legal problem? I've never seen anything referring to OCing someone else's gun, so I'm pretty in the dark...

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    Tribunal Power wrote:
    Hm. So would it be a safe, sound practice to OC right now with my 'borrowed' firearm? Or if a LEO accosts me, am I bound for some kind of legal problem? I've never seen anything referring to OCing someone else's gun, so I'm pretty in the dark...
    As long as you are not a prohibited person you can carry anyones handgun. You have no obligation to tell the police or anyone else who the weapon belongs to. How would I know if it's someone else's gun? You just can't purchase it if you are not a resident of Kentucky
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    I see. I'd ask you to cite, but I wouldn't figure you could cite what the law doesn't say. Well, with recent information then, I'll be happy to start OCing. I've OCed before (with a borrowed pistol), but it was inanother state, undera different setting and with another individual, so this is apart from that. I haven't seen anyone around here OCing yet-- that would really set my nerves at ease. Lol.

    I guess I'm just a little anxious about getting reamed. I know I shouldn't OC if I'm worried about that, but it's not being reamed that worries me, it's the fact that I'm not a lawyer and don't really know the laws in and out. I'm alittle nervous about getting nailed for an offense on some tiny stipulation or something. I suppose I'll adjust the more often I OC, hm?

    Thanks for the assist. :P Any additional tidbits of info/warnings/whatevers on the subject are appreciated.

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    How much time has elapsed since she bought the two pistols? You/she might get hit with a strawman purchase charge if it appears she "bought" the pistol intending to "resell" it to you (IAW you were the true purchaser). You and she must be residents of the same state even if it is a private purchase. You can buy a long gun in any state that permits it. The BS about contiguous states is just that. I don't know what a contingent state is but it is likewise unnecessary. Play it safe and legal. I don't see any need to rush into a felony. Don't make any decision based upon what you read here (including what I have written). None of us "experts" will be around if you are indicted.

    hotrod wrote:
    Tribunal Power wrote:
    Sick. I was hoping for that. I've been told that if you can legally own, you can legally carry. So, I have a follow-up.

    Basically what happened was my sis-in-law bought two pistols, which I helped her pick out. After teaching her to shoot, helping her manage her guns, and filling her in on some of the laws that I know about as well as directing her to various places online, she fell in love with one gun and decidedto offer the other gun to me for sale. I pounced.

    I know private sales like this are legal and common, but I want to make absolutely sure that there's no harm, no foul here. It would be bad enough for me to get into trouble for an illegal sale, but I certainly wouldn't want it to come back and bite her in the ass for doing me a favor.

    The reason I ask is because I can't legally purchase a firearm from a federal vendor in KY because I'm not a resident. At least, that's what the gun shops have been telling me. >_> Am I all legal'd up?
    You can only legally purchase a handgun in the state you are a legal resident in. You can purchase a long gun from your state of residence or any state contingent to your state of residence. If you are not a legal resident of the Commonwealth you can not purchase a handgun here. Nothing says you can't borrow it to carry while here

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    apjonas wrote:
    How much time has elapsed since she bought the two pistols? You/she might get hit with a strawman purchase charge if it appears she "bought" the pistol intending to "resell" it to you (IAW you were the true purchaser). You and she must be residents of the same state even if it is a private purchase. You can buy a long gun in any state that permits it. The BS about contiguous states is just that. I don't know what a contingent state is but it is likewise unnecessary. Play it safe and legal. I don't see any need to rush into a felony. Don't make any decision based upon what you read here (including what I have written). None of us "experts" will be around if you are indicted.

    hotrod wrote:
    Tribunal Power wrote:
    Sick. I was hoping for that. I've been told that if you can legally own, you can legally carry. So, I have a follow-up.

    Basically what happened was my sis-in-law bought two pistols, which I helped her pick out. After teaching her to shoot, helping her manage her guns, and filling her in on some of the laws that I know about as well as directing her to various places online, she fell in love with one gun and decidedto offer the other gun to me for sale. I pounced.

    I know private sales like this are legal and common, but I want to make absolutely sure that there's no harm, no foul here. It would be bad enough for me to get into trouble for an illegal sale, but I certainly wouldn't want it to come back and bite her in the ass for doing me a favor.

    The reason I ask is because I can't legally purchase a firearm from a federal vendor in KY because I'm not a resident. At least, that's what the gun shops have been telling me. >_> Am I all legal'd up?
    You can only legally purchase a handgun in the state you are a legal resident in. You can purchase a long gun from your state of residence or any state contingent to your state of residence. If you are not a legal resident of the Commonwealth you can not purchase a handgun here. Nothing says you can't borrow it to carry while here
    It appears the contigent state provision for purchase of long guns under 237.020 was revised in 2007 to make long gun purchaseslegal from any state. As for the straw purchase, length of time between purchase and resale has no bearing.
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    hotrod wrote:
    It appears the contigent state provision for purchase of long guns under 237.020 was revised in 2007 to make long gun purchaseslegal from any state. As for the straw purchase, length of time between purchase and resale has no bearing.
    Helpfulcorrection:contiguous state

    Think that the time element is of no importance? I'll admit there is no specific time provided by law but look at it logically. If you are an ATF agent who observes a "private sale," what is going to be of more interest? Which has indicia of a strawman purchase? Assume all facts to be the same except:

    A. Fred buys firearm from Tom, 23 years after Tom purchased it from Billy Bob's Gun Barn.

    B. Fred buys firearm from Tom in Billy Bob's parking lot five minutes after buying it.

    Even if Tom had an immediate case of buyer's remorse or suddenly remembered he needed the money for his wife's electrolysis, it looks very strawmanish. If I were in that situation, I would wait for a decent interval and have very strong explanations at hand. What was in your mind is less important than what your actions suggest to others.

    If you got lost while driving your windowless cargo van, would you ask a 12-year old girl for directions? If so, you are certifiable. Anybody seeing that (and not having the benefit of hearing the conversation - probably wouldn't matter anyway) would suspect child enticement. Now you might be able to explain yourself to the police - while handcuffed and face down on the pavement. And you then have a lifetime of explaining to potential employers what happened (some ask about any police encounters). As Gump said "Stupid is as stupid does."

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    apjonas wrote:
    hotrod wrote:
    It appears the contigent state provision for purchase of long guns under 237.020 was revised in 2007 to make long gun purchaseslegal from any state. As for the straw purchase, length of time between purchase and resale has no bearing.
    Helpfulcorrection:contiguous state

    Think that the time element is of no importance? I'll admit there is no specific time provided by law but look at it logically. If you are an ATF agent who observes a "private sale," what is going to be of more interest? Which has indicia of a strawman purchase? Assume all facts to be the same except:

    A. Fred buys firearm from Tom, 23 years after Tom purchased it from Billy Bob's Gun Barn.

    B. Fred buys firearm from Tom in Billy Bob's parking lot five minutes after buying it.

    Even if Tom had an immediate case of buyer's remorse or suddenly remembered he needed the money for his wife's electrolysis, it looks very strawmanish. If I were in that situation, I would wait for a decent interval and have very strong explanations at hand. What was in your mind is less important than what your actions suggest to others.

    If you got lost while driving your windowless cargo van, would you ask a 12-year old girl for directions? If so, you are certifiable. Anybody seeing that (and not having the benefit of hearing the conversation - probably wouldn't matter anyway) would suspect child enticement. Now you might be able to explain yourself to the police - while handcuffed and face down on the pavement. And you then have a lifetime of explaining to potential employers what happened (some ask about any police encounters). As Gump said "Stupid is as stupid does."
    Thanks for the help in my inferior use of the incorrect word. And you sir are Mr. Gump. What a conspiracy theorist.
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    Basically the others are correct.....no problems.

    If you live in Ky, you are a resident and Ill has NO say so over you. You must be a resident for X amount of time before you may do certain things like get a CDWL (6 months) and your license and tags must be changed in 90 days(I think)..

    You may carry open if you can legally own a gun, and it can be aborrowed one.

    A straw purchase must involve INTENT.....I wouldn't worry about your situation.

    You are good to go.

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    TheMrMitch wrote:
    Basically the others are correct.....no problems.

    If you live in Ky, you are a resident and Ill has NO say so over you. You must be a resident for X amount of time before you may do certain things like get a CDWL (6 months) and your license and tags must be changed in 90 days(I think)..

    You may carry open if you can legally own a gun, and it can be aborrowed one.

    A straw purchase must involve INTENT.....I wouldn't worry about your situation.

    You are good to go.
    Thanks for confirmation Mr. Mitch. And you're right, intent is needed, but under the other theory you can be arrested for merely buying. Lost my temper and I should not havedone that. Shouldbe more tolerant of others.
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    Wow, thanks to all for the responses here. I really appreciate the assistance.

    So it's my understanding that I'm in the clear because it's a 'borrowed' gun? That's the general concensus here?

    Edit: The purchase was a couple days after she bought the pistols. But since it's 'borrowed', that shouldn't matter, right?

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    Tribunal Power wrote:
    So it's my understanding that I'm in the clear because it's a 'borrowed' gun? That's the general concensus here?

    Edit: The purchase was a couple days after she bought the pistols. But since it's 'borrowed', that shouldn't matter, right?
    Wouldn't matter even if she sold it to you. No intentionalstraw purchase is indicated.

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    TheMrMitch wrote:
    Tribunal Power wrote:
    So it's my understanding that I'm in the clear because it's a 'borrowed' gun? That's the general concensus here?

    Edit: The purchase was a couple days after she bought the pistols. But since it's 'borrowed', that shouldn't matter, right?
    Wouldn't matter even if she sold it to you. No intentionalstraw purchase is indicated.
    Well, straw purchase or not, it still wouldn't be legal because I'm not yet a Kentucky resident. So until I am, I'm just borrowing it. :P

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    OOPS> I read where you said you moved to Ky.....that makes you a resident.

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    TheMrMitch wrote:
    OOPS> I read where you said you moved to Ky.....that makes you a resident.
    Well, I've practically moved here. I just haven't legally changed my address/gotten a KY ID. But I should be getting that managed within the next two weeks or so. :P

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    You have been in Ky for a week with no intent on moving out, makes you a resident. You have 30 days to transfer to a Ky. DL. The LEO only care if the gun is legal, I.E. not use in a crime. They don't need to know you just got it when you moved here. Don't offer any info to them. Only answer their questions they ask. That is if you get stopped. Remember you are in Ky. now. Most everyone owns a gun. Oh and by the way welcome to KY.

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    JEFFANDTHEA wrote:
    You have been in Ky for a week with no intent on moving out, makes you a resident. You have 30 days to transfer to a Ky. DL. The LEO only care if the gun is legal, I.E. not use in a crime. They don't need to know you just got it when you moved here. Don't offer any info to them. Only answer their questions they ask. That is if you get stopped. Remember you are in Ky. now. Most everyone owns a gun. Oh and by the way welcome to KY.
    Thank you for the welcome. :P

    Can anyone confirm/cite this resident business? It doesn't sound right to me, but I'm no vet to state border laws. If this is the case, then I'm already technically a KY resident and I'm running out of time to get a liscense. >_>

    I was under the impression that I was not a legal resident unless I legally changed my address to a KY location and acquired a KY liscense.

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    Huh. That does make things interesting. At the moment, just about everything is in my wife's name. However, my name is on the lease for our apartment (which has both of our names on it). I don't know that that would really be proof of residency, though.

    Let me toss this situation out there. I'm heading back to Illinois this weekend, and I would really like to bring my gun. The thing is, since I have an Illinois ID and no FOID card, I wouldn't legally be able to possess a gun in Illinois borders.

    But if I'm technically a KY resident, I do not need a FOID card, and thusly would able to transport my firearm according to IL laws.

    I do have a copy of my apartment's lease that I could bring with me. Does my name on that paper legally make me a KY resident? Or, in a situation where my gun is exposed to the eyes of a IL LEO (transported according to IL law, of course), do I have to have a KY ID in order to be treated asa legal resident of the Commonwealth?

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