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National parks versus State parks

Nevada carrier

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I know this has been discussed, if someone could post a link to a thread that answers this question I would be grateful.

If I understand correctly, I can open carry in national parks but not in Nevada State parks, correct?

How about national and state forests?

The reason I ask Because I took a drive up to Mt Charleston today simply because I finally have my D/L back and got a brand new car. Of course I was carrying as I always do and forget to double check to make sure I was legal to do so up there.
 

Sabotage70

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I'm pretty sure the state parks are ok. The only ones that have a problem with firearms is Clark county and the local cities parks(LV,NLV, Henderson and BC).
 

DON`T TREAD ON ME

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here is the law for state parks recycled from a previous post.

Nevada Administrative Code Chapter 407 covers firearms in State Parks.

http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nac/NAC-407.html

Relevant Code Section:

NAC 407.105 Possession or use of weapons. (NRS 407.0475, 407.065)
1. In any park, a person shall not:
(a) Use a bow and arrow, slingshot or paint ball launcher;
(b) Possess a firearm, unless:
(1) The firearm is unloaded and inside a vehicle; or
(2) The person in possession of the firearm has a permit to carry a concealed firearm issued pursuant to the provisions of NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, and is carrying the firearm in conformity with the terms of the permit;
(c) Discharge a weapon, including, without limitation, an air rifle, spring gun or air pistol
So what are the TERMS of the permit? TERMS of the permit would be those rules which the permittee must follow when carrying. Let's examine each and every law related to concealed weapons:

NRS 202.3653 - Definitions.
Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

NRS 202.3657 - Application for permit; eligibility; denial or revocation of permit.
Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

NRS 202.366 - Investigation of applicant for permit; issuance or denial of permit; expiration of permit.
Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

NRS 202.3662 - Confidentiality of information about applicant for permit and permittee.
Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

NRS 202.3663 - Judicial review of denial of application for permit.
Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

NRS 202.3665 - Duties of sheriff upon receiving notification that applicant or permittee has been charged with or convicted of crime involving use or threatened use of force or violence.
Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

NRS 202.3667 - Permittee to carry permit and proper identification when in possession of concealed firearm; penalty.
Rules for the permittee when carrying? YES

NRS 202.367 - Duplicate permit; notification to sheriff of recovered permit; penalty.
Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

NRS 202.3673 - Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty.
Rules for the permittee when carrying? YES

NRS 202.3677 - Application for renewal of permit; fees; demonstrated continued competence required.
Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

NRS 202.3678 - Application for certification as qualified retired law enforcement officer; fee.
Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

NRS 202.368 - Fees to be deposited with county treasurer.
Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

NRS 202.3683 - Immunity of state and local governments from civil liability.
Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

NRS 202.3687 - Temporary permits.
Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

NRS 202.3688 - Circumstances in which holder of permit issued by another state may carry concealed firearm in this State; holder of permit issued by another state subject to same restrictions and requirements as holder of permit issued in this State.
Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

NRS 202.3689 - Department to prepare list of states that meet certain requirements concerning permits; Department to provide copy of list to law enforcement agencies in this State; Department to make list available to public.
Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

NRS 202.369 - Regulations.
Rules for the permittee when carrying? NO

So out of the 17 code sections related to concealed weapons, only 2 are related to what the permit holder must do. The rest is the bureaucratic nonsense.

Since there are only 2 code sections to review, let's look at each of them:


NRS 202.3667 Permittee to carry permit and proper identification when in possession of concealed firearm; penalty.
1. Each permittee shall carry the permit, or a duplicate issued pursuant to the provisions of NRS 202.367, together with proper identification whenever the permittee is in actual possession of a concealed firearm. Both the permit and proper identification must be presented if requested by a peace officer.
2. A permittee who violates the provisions of this section is subject to a civil penalty of $25 for each violation.
This requires permit holders to carry the permit with "proper" identification. I never understood what was required of this "proper" identification since the CCW has your name, address, and picture on it already. But even if you fail to have "proper" identification with you, it's not criminal. It carries a minimal $25 civil penalty.


NRS 202.3673 Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty.
1. Except as otherwise provided in subsections 2 and 3, a permittee may carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of any public building.
2. A permittee shall not carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of a public building that is located on the property of a public airport.
3. A permittee shall not carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of:
(a) A public building that is located on the property of a public school or a child care facility or the property of the Nevada System of Higher Education, unless the permittee has obtained written permission to carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building pursuant to subparagraph (3) of paragraph (a) of subsection 3 of NRS 202.265.
(b) A public building that has a metal detector at each public entrance or a sign posted at each public entrance indicating that no firearms are allowed in the building, unless the permittee is not prohibited from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building pursuant to subsection 4.
4. The provisions of paragraph (b) of subsection 3 do not prohibit:
(a) A permittee who is a judge from carrying a concealed firearm in the courthouse or courtroom in which he presides or from authorizing a permittee to carry a concealed firearm while in the courtroom of the judge and while traveling to and from the courtroom of the judge.
(b) A permittee who is a prosecuting attorney of an agency or political subdivision of the United States or of this State from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of a public building.
(c) A permittee who is employed in the public building from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building.
(d) A permittee from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building if the permittee has received written permission from the person in control of the public building to carry a concealed firearm while the permittee is on the premises of the public building.
5. A person who violates subsection 2 or 3 is guilty of a misdemeanor.
6. As used in this section:
(a) “Child care facility” has the meaning ascribed to it in paragraph (a) of subsection 5 of NRS 202.265.
(b) “Public building” means any building or office space occupied by:
(1) Any component of the Nevada System of Higher Education and used for any purpose related to the System; or
(2) The Federal Government, the State of Nevada or any county, city, school district or other political subdivision of the State of Nevada and used for any public purpose.

If only part of the building is occupied by an entity described in this subsection, the term means only that portion of the building which is so occupied.
Relating this just to parks:

1. Unless prohibited by 2 or 3, you can carry into any public building in any park.
2. Public airports don't exist within state parks, N/A
3a. If there is a school building or child care facility within the park, you can't carry into it. This is redundant, since NRS 202.265 already makes this illegal.
3b. If any building within the park has metal detectors at each public entrance, or a sign prohibiting firearms at each public entrance, you cannot carry into it.
4a. No courthouses within public parks. N/A
4b. If you are a prosecuting attorney anywhere in the USA, you're above the law.
4c. If you're employed in a public building within the park, even if it has metal detectors or signs, you may carry concealed within that public building.
4d. If you have permission from the administrator of the building, you may carry.
5. Penalty
6. Definitions

http://www.leg.state.nv.us/Nrs/NRS-202.html#NRS202Sec3653


Thanks Tim,
 

Sabotage70

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DON`T TREAD ON ME wrote:
here is the law for state parks recycled from a previous post.

Nevada Administrative Code Chapter 407 covers firearms in State Parks.

http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nac/NAC-407.html

Relevant Code Section:

NAC 407.105  Possession or use of weapons. (NRS 407.0475, 407.065)
1.  In any park, a person shall not:
  (a) Use a bow and arrow, slingshot or paint ball launcher;
  (b) Possess a firearm, unless:
    (1) The firearm is unloaded and inside a vehicle; or
    (2) The person in possession of the firearm has a permit to carry a concealed firearm issued pursuant to the provisions of NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, and is carrying the firearm in conformity with the terms of the permit;
  (c) Discharge a weapon, including, without limitation, an air rifle, spring gun or air pistol
So what are the TERMS of the permit?  TERMS of the permit would be those rules which the permittee must follow when carrying.  Let's examine each and every law related to concealed weapons:

NRS 202.3653 - Definitions.
Rules for the permittee when carrying?  NO

NRS 202.3657 - Application for permit; eligibility; denial or revocation of permit.
Rules for the permittee when carrying?  NO

NRS 202.366 - Investigation of applicant for permit; issuance or denial of permit; expiration of permit.
Rules for the permittee when carrying?  NO

NRS 202.3662 - Confidentiality of information about applicant for permit and permittee.
Rules for the permittee when carrying?  NO

NRS 202.3663 - Judicial review of denial of application for permit.
Rules for the permittee when carrying?  NO

NRS 202.3665 - Duties of sheriff upon receiving notification that applicant or permittee has been charged with or convicted of crime involving use or threatened use of force or violence.
Rules for the permittee when carrying?  NO

NRS 202.3667 - Permittee to carry permit and proper identification when in possession of concealed firearm; penalty.
Rules for the permittee when carrying?  YES

NRS 202.367 - Duplicate permit; notification to sheriff of recovered permit; penalty.
Rules for the permittee when carrying?  NO

NRS 202.3673 - Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty.
Rules for the permittee when carrying?  YES

NRS 202.3677 - Application for renewal of permit; fees; demonstrated continued competence required.
Rules for the permittee when carrying?  NO

NRS 202.3678 - Application for certification as qualified retired law enforcement officer; fee.
Rules for the permittee when carrying?  NO

NRS 202.368 - Fees to be deposited with county treasurer.
Rules for the permittee when carrying?  NO

NRS 202.3683 - Immunity of state and local governments from civil liability.
Rules for the permittee when carrying?  NO

NRS 202.3687 - Temporary permits.
Rules for the permittee when carrying?  NO

NRS 202.3688 - Circumstances in which holder of permit issued by another state may carry concealed firearm in this State; holder of permit issued by another state subject to same restrictions and requirements as holder of permit issued in this State.
Rules for the permittee when carrying?  NO

NRS 202.3689 - Department to prepare list of states that meet certain requirements concerning permits; Department to provide copy of list to law enforcement agencies in this State; Department to make list available to public.
Rules for the permittee when carrying?  NO

NRS 202.369 - Regulations.
Rules for the permittee when carrying?  NO

So out of the 17 code sections related to concealed weapons, only 2 are related to what the permit holder must do.  The rest is the bureaucratic nonsense.

Since there are only 2 code sections to review, let's look at each of them:


NRS 202.3667 Permittee to carry permit and proper identification when in possession of concealed firearm; penalty.
  1. Each permittee shall carry the permit, or a duplicate issued pursuant to the provisions of NRS 202.367, together with proper identification whenever the permittee is in actual possession of a concealed firearm. Both the permit and proper identification must be presented if requested by a peace officer.
  2. A permittee who violates the provisions of this section is subject to a civil penalty of $25 for each violation.
This requires permit holders to carry the permit with "proper" identification.  I never understood what was required of this "proper" identification since the CCW has your name, address, and picture on it already.  But even if you fail to have "proper" identification with you, it's not criminal.  It carries a minimal $25 civil penalty.


NRS 202.3673 Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty.
  1. Except as otherwise provided in subsections 2 and 3, a permittee may carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of any public building.
  2. A permittee shall not carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of a public building that is located on the property of a public airport.
  3. A permittee shall not carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of:
    (a) A public building that is located on the property of a public school or a child care facility or the property of the Nevada System of Higher Education, unless the permittee has obtained written permission to carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building pursuant to subparagraph (3) of paragraph (a) of subsection 3 of NRS 202.265.
    (b) A public building that has a metal detector at each public entrance or a sign posted at each public entrance indicating that no firearms are allowed in the building, unless the permittee is not prohibited from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building pursuant to subsection 4.
  4. The provisions of paragraph (b) of subsection 3 do not prohibit:
    (a) A permittee who is a judge from carrying a concealed firearm in the courthouse or courtroom in which he presides or from authorizing a permittee to carry a concealed firearm while in the courtroom of the judge and while traveling to and from the courtroom of the judge.
    (b) A permittee who is a prosecuting attorney of an agency or political subdivision of the United States or of this State from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of a public building.
    (c) A permittee who is employed in the public building from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building.
    (d) A permittee from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building if the permittee has received written permission from the person in control of the public building to carry a concealed firearm while the permittee is on the premises of the public building.
  5. A person who violates subsection 2 or 3 is guilty of a misdemeanor.
  6. As used in this section:
    (a) “Child care facility” has the meaning ascribed to it in paragraph (a) of subsection 5 of NRS 202.265.
    (b) “Public building” means any building or office space occupied by:
    (1) Any component of the Nevada System of Higher Education and used for any purpose related to the System; or
    (2) The Federal Government, the State of Nevada or any county, city, school district or other political subdivision of the State of Nevada and used for any public purpose.

If only part of the building is occupied by an entity described in this subsection, the term means only that portion of the building which is so occupied.
Relating this just to parks:

1. Unless prohibited by 2 or 3, you can carry into any public building in any park.
2. Public airports don't exist within state parks, N/A
3a. If there is a school building or child care facility within the park, you can't carry into it.  This is redundant, since NRS 202.265 already makes this illegal.
3b. If any building within the park has metal detectors at each public entrance, or a sign prohibiting firearms at each public entrance, you cannot carry into it.
4a. No courthouses within public parks.  N/A
4b. If you are a prosecuting attorney anywhere in the USA, you're above the law.
4c. If you're employed in a public building within the park, even if it has metal detectors or signs, you may carry concealed within that public building.
4d. If you have permission from the administrator of the building, you may carry.
5. Penalty
6. Definitions

http://www.leg.state.nv.us/Nrs/NRS-202.html#NRS202Sec3653


Thanks Tim,

 

 

It's alive!!:what:
 

aadvark

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National Parks within Nevada are Legal, provided; that the carrying of a Firearm is doen off of the Authority of a Nevada Permit, and the State of Nevada allows Park Carry.

***This is Federal Law, and it was enacted February. 22, 2010. Under the Federal Law, Firearms are allowed in Federal Parks, if, and only if, The State wherein the Park is located allows Firearms in their State Parks. One needs to be careful here, because; some States allow Firearms in their State Parks, and others do not. Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 931 still disallows Firearms in Federal Facilities, however; the Federal Law exempts Hunting and 'other Lawful Activities' (the term contained in thequotation has not yet been defined by Federal Courts or has beenInterpreted, so be careful what 'other Lawful Activites' means...). There is a problem though, ...say..., Yellowstone National Park..., because; this Park crossesmutiple StateLines. So in this instance, every time you cross a State Line, even though you are in the same National Park, you MUST conform your Firearm Carry to that States' Laws, concerning Firearms in Parks.***

Nevada allows Firearms in StateParks, therefore, under FederalLaw, Firearms are allowed in National Parkslocated within Nevada, PROVIDED; that you must Carry the Firearm pursuant to Nevada LawAND Federal Code 18U.S.C. 930.

If you are in a National Park that crosses State Lines, and you cross into another State, then, you MUST follow the Laws of that State regarding Firearm-Carry within the same Park.

***This creates abizarre situtation, because one State (State A) may allow Firearms in their State Parks,but the neighboring State (State B)may not. Therefore Firearms in the National Park side ofState A is OK, but the same Firearm in the same NationalPark in State B is Illegal.***

It is your responsibilty to know another State's Laws when you cross State Lines.
 

Loneviking

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Messages
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There's something very interesting about the way these statutes are written.

First, Nevada is a 'strict construction' state. Statutes are interpreted very strictly, as they are written.

Second, according to the statute you can only possess a firearm in a Nevada state park IF you have a CCW permit AND are carrying in conformity with the terms of the permit.

There is nothing in Nevada law that says that a CCW permit holder must only carry concealed. By strictly interpreting this law, as long as you have a CCW permit, there is nothing to prevent you from carrying open or concealed. If you guys can find anything to the contrary feel free to post it.
 

Felid`Maximus

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NAC 407.105 Possession or use of weapons. (NRS 407.0475, 407.065)
1. In any park, a person shall not:
(a) Use a bow and arrow, slingshot or paint ball launcher;
(b) Possess a firearm, unless:
(1) The firearm is unloaded and inside a vehicle; or
(2) The person in possession of the firearm has a permit to carry a concealed firearm issued pursuant to the provisions of NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, and is carrying the firearm in conformity with the terms of the permit;
(c) Discharge a weapon, including, without limitation, an air rifle, spring gun or air pistol; or
(d) Throw a knife, hatchet, spear, stone or projectile,
Ê except as authorized by the Administrator.
2. The Administrator may designate zones in which a person may, for the purposes of hunting a species that is designated by the Board of Wildlife Commissioners as a game mammal or game bird pursuant to chapter 503 of NAC, carry and discharge a firearm or bow in accordance with the regulations of the Department of Wildlife. At each park in which a zone is designated pursuant to this subsection, the ranger in charge of the region or the supervisor of the park shall post at the headquarters of the park, and at each area within the park which is designated as a zone in which a person may carry and discharge a firearm or bow for the purposes of hunting, maps of the designated zones within that park.
3. Target shooting is prohibited in all areas of a park, except in an area designated as a firing range.
4. Use of a bow to kill, capture or injure a fish is prohibited within 100 feet of a swimmer.
(Added to NAC by Div. of St. Parks, 12-31-85, eff. 1-1-86; A 3-9-88; 7-25-90; 11-12-93; 3-20-96, eff. 4-1-96; R164-97, 3-1-98; R145-99, 1-18-2000; R118-01, 12-17-2001; R149-05, 5-4-2006)

It is my opinion that the Division of State parks does not have the authority to regulate the carry of guns. Whether you can be convicted for violating their regulations and refusing to comply with them after request of the ranger or not might be another story.

The State legislature told them they could create regulations about some things, but did not specifically provide a statute providing authority for them to regulate guns.

The state legislature reserves such rights to itself to regulate firearms, except as provided by specific statute.

I think it is absurd that unelected officials think they can make such rules, valid or invalid under state law.

NRS 407.0475 Administrator: Regulations; penalty for violation of regulations.
1. The Administrator shall adopt such regulations as he or she finds necessary for carrying out the provisions of this chapter and other provisions of law governing the operation of the Division. The regulations may include prohibitions and restrictions relating to activities within any of the park or recreational facilities within the jurisdiction of the Division.
2. Any regulations relating to the conduct of persons within the park or recreational facilities must:
(a) Be directed toward one or both of the following:
(1) Prevention of damage to or misuse of the facility.
(2) Promotion of the inspiration, use and enjoyment of the people of this State through the preservation and use of the facility.
(b) Apply separately to each park, monument or recreational area and be designed to fit the conditions existing at that park, monument or recreational area.
3. Any person whose conduct violates any regulation adopted pursuant to subsection 1, and who refuses to comply with the regulation upon request by any ranger or employee of the Division who has the powers of a peace officer pursuant to NRS 289.260, is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(Added to NRS by 1973, 978; A 1975, 801; 1977, 1130; 1985, 368; 1993, 2532)

I don't think that banning people from carrying firearms prevents damage or misuse of the facility, nor does it promote the inspiration, use, and enjoyment of the people of Nevada through the preservation and use of the facility to restrict the carry of firearms within it. Also if it is a blanket regulation that affects all lands governed by the agency is it fit to the conditions of each existing park, monument, or recreation area? If it is, what is it about such areas that makes them more fit for regulations on carry than any other place? Even if they thought they did and were convinced they did meet all the criteria in A and B, there is still nothing that specifically states that they can regulate firearms. I think if the state legislature wanted them to ban guns in the parks, they would have said they explicitly that they could create weapons regulations, or banned guns in the parks themselves.

NRS 407.065 General powers and duties of Administrator.
1. The Administrator, subject to the approval of the Director:
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this paragraph, may establish, name, plan, operate, control, protect, develop and maintain state parks, monuments and recreational areas for the use of the general public. The name of an existing state park, monument or recreational area may not be changed unless the Legislature approves the change by statute.
(b) Shall protect state parks and property controlled or administered by the Division from misuse or damage and preserve the peace within those areas. The Administrator may appoint or designate certain employees of the Division to have the general authority of peace officers.
(c) May allow multiple use of state parks and real property controlled or administered by the Division for any lawful purpose, including, but not limited to, grazing, mining, development of natural resources, hunting and fishing, in accordance with such regulations as may be adopted in furtherance of the purposes of the Division.
(d) Shall impose and collect reasonable fees for entering, camping and boating in state parks and recreational areas. The Division shall issue, upon application therefor and proof of residency and age, an annual permit for entering, camping and boating in all state parks and recreational areas in this State to any person who is 65 years of age or older and has resided in this State for at least 5 years immediately preceding the date on which the application is submitted. The permit must be issued without charge, except that the Division shall charge and collect an administrative fee for the issuance of the permit in an amount sufficient to cover the costs of issuing the permit.
(e) May conduct and operate such special services as may be necessary for the comfort and convenience of the general public, and impose and collect reasonable fees for such special services.
(f) May rent or lease concessions located within the boundaries of state parks or of real property controlled or administered by the Division to public or private corporations, to groups of natural persons, or to natural persons for a valuable consideration upon such terms and conditions as the Division deems fit and proper, but no concessionaire may dominate any state park operation.
(g) May establish such capital projects construction funds as are necessary to account for the parks improvements program approved by the Legislature. The money in these funds must be used for the construction and improvement of those parks which are under the supervision of the Administrator.
2. The Administrator:
(a) Shall issue an annual permit to a person who pays a reasonable fee as prescribed by regulation which authorizes the holder of the permit to enter each state park and each recreational area in this State and, except as otherwise provided in subsection 3, use the facilities of the state park or recreational area without paying the entrance fee; and
(b) May issue an annual permit to a person who pays a reasonable fee as prescribed by regulation which authorizes the holder of the permit to enter a specific state park or specific recreational area in this State and, except as otherwise provided in subsection 3, use the facilities of the state park or recreational area without paying the entrance fee.
3. An annual permit issued pursuant to subsection 2 does not authorize the holder of the permit to engage in camping or boating, or to attend special events. The holder of such a permit who wishes to engage in camping or boating, or to attend special events, must pay any fee established for the respective activity.
4. Except as otherwise provided in subsection 1 of NRS 407.0762 and subsection 1 of NRS 407.0765, the fees collected pursuant to paragraphs (d), (e) and (f) of subsection 1 or subsection 2 must be deposited in the State General Fund.
(Added to NRS by 1961, 180; A 1963, 831; 1971, 2078; 1973, 247; 1977, 794, 1131; 1979, 108; 1985, 287; 1993, 217, 1029, 2532; 1999, 977; 2003, 1216, 3221)
And I think citing that is a lame attempt at professing authority to regulate carry of firearms, if they think that is a justification. The authority to allow hunting is not the same as the authority to ban guns.

The current preemption laws ( NRS 244.364,
NRS 268.418, and NRS 269.222 ) say that the state legislature reserves the rights and powers to regulate firearms to themselves as provided by specific statute and that no city/county/town may infringe upon those rights and powers. While there is no law that says that unelected state officials cannot infringe upon those rights and powers, there is also no specific statute authorizing them to and the law appears to me to apply to more than just cities, counties, and towns. Although the statutes only specifically prohibits cities/towns/counties from infringing upon it, the statutes also say that it is reserved to the legislature except by specific statute, and in my opinion there is no specific statute allowing the Division of State Parks to regulate firearms.

NRS 269.222 Limited authority to regulate firearms; restrictions concerning registration of firearms in town in county whose population is 400,000 or more.
1. Except as otherwise provided by specific statute, the Legislature reserves for itself such rights and powers as are necessary to regulate the transfer, sale, purchase, possession, ownership, transportation, registration and licensing of firearms and ammunition in Nevada, and no town may infringe upon those rights and powers.
 
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