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Thread: Gunman kills 4 women at Miami-area restaurant

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Accounts seem a little sketchy, but appears this low-life targeted only women.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/07...est=latestnews
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    PDinDetroit wrote:
    Accounts seem a little sketchy, but appears this low-life targeted only women.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/07...est=latestnews
    Or is it that women are simply far more likely to be unarmed?

    Those who choose to be targets, will be. It's no different than 'gun free' zones. Don't presume gender prejudice. Women are far less likely to be armed or take responsibility for themselves. They don't even arm to protect their own children! They're easy targets. And criminals prefer easy targets.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    ixtow wrote:
    PDinDetroit wrote:
    Accounts seem a little sketchy, but appears this low-life targeted only women.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/07...est=latestnews
    Or is it that women are simply far more likely to be unarmed?

    Those who choose to be targets, will be. It's no different than 'gun free' zones. Don't presume gender prejudice. Women are far less likely to be armed or take responsibility for themselves. They don't even arm to protect their own children! They're easy targets. And criminals prefer easy targets.
    Women do not "choose" to be targets. The majority of women were raised to depend on a man for protection. It's the whole "gender equality" thing in a different guise. Little girls are still raised differently from little boys. This is the root of the problem. Until girls and women are taught and believe that they have an equal right and responsibility to defend and protect themselves, things will not improve greatly. I am an older woman who now carries CC and occasionally OC. I am an independently minded person and always have been. But still it took being close to a mall shooting to wake me up and make me realize that I need more than my dog to protect me. I train and practice on a regular basis and I carry almost 100% of the time, except for restricted places. I also try to educate other women to the need for them to learn to protect themselves.
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    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    Ruby, I applaud your determination to take your self protection seriously, it' awesome. Women like you set great examples to help educate other women. If we can lead by example then maybeother people canbe inspired from our efforts. Carry on.
    "To sin by silence, when we should protest makes cowards out of men."
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    mooma[/b]
    California

    You don't have to carry a gun to be safe.Train citizens the right way to conduct themselves and put a law in place that will only allow law inforcement officials,and licensed hunters to have guns and you will see gun related crime drop.Guns in the civilian hands should not be used for shooting people.The law should also add a life sentence as an outcome for those caught carrying guns illegally.The only reason they can not make such law effective is because, the gun market will fall. Selling guns is a big business.
    [/b]:what:

    How about, the only reason they can't make such a law is because of the freakin Second Amendment! And as it's been stated a hundred thousand times before, the people who carry illegaly are criminals anyways, so what would they care about such a law?

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    syntax_error wrote:
    mooma
    California

    You don't have to carry a gun to be safe.Train citizens the right way to conduct themselves and put a law in place that will only allow law inforcement officials,and licensed hunters to have guns and you will see gun related crime drop.Guns in the civilian hands should not be used for shooting people.The law should also add a life sentence as an outcome for those caught carrying guns illegally.The only reason they can not make such law effective is because, the gun market will fall. Selling guns is a big business.
    :what:

    How about, the only reason they can't make such a law is because of the freakin Second Amendment! And as it's been stated a hundred thousand times before, the people who carry illegaly are criminals anyways, so what would they care about such a law?
    Let me see, guns in civilian hands should not be used for shooting people. Hmm ? I wonder,,who this progressive is. I carry, 99.9% of the time, I will not risk my life depending on law enforcement that is under no legal requirement to defend my life, property or freedom. All people that can own and carry a firearm should. Want to see crime rates drop? Start by weeding out the bad guys buy the laws of nature, only the strong and smart survive!

    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    mooma
    California

    You don't have to carry a gun to be safe.Train citizens the right way to conduct themselves and put a law in place that will only allow law inforcement officials,and licensed hunters to have guns and you will see gun related crime drop.Guns in the civilian hands should not be used for shooting people.The law should also add a life sentence as an outcome for those caught carrying guns illegally.The only reason they can not make such law effective is because, the gun market will fall. Selling guns is a big business.


    Mooma's forgetting 1 big thing...

    How would restricting guns like that for LAC's affect the means of criminals to get guns????

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    syntax_error wrote:
    mooma[/b]
    California

    You don't have to carry a gun to be safe.Train citizens the right way to conduct themselves and put a law in place that will only allow law inforcement officials,and licensed hunters to have guns and you will see gun related crime drop.Guns in the civilian hands should not be used for shooting people.The law should also add a life sentence as an outcome for those caught carrying guns illegally.The only reason they can not make such law effective is because, the gun market will fall. Selling guns is a big business.
    [/b]:what:

    How about, the only reason they can't make such a law is because of the freakin Second Amendment! And as it's been stated a hundred thousand times before, the people who carry illegaly are criminals anyways, so what would they care about such a law?
    People shouldn't commit crimes against other people, either, but they do. In a free society such as ours, how do you propose to train people "the right way?" Whose "way" would that be? Yours? The neighbors down the street? We already have thousands of gun laws on the books and criminals still get guns illegally and they always will. Guns in civilian hands give those civilians a fighting chance when they are attacked by said criminals. If you want to live in a gun free country, go to England, or Australia, or some European country that doesn't allow guns.

    Why are you on here to begin with? Surely you know this is a pro gun forum. You can forget trying to convert anyone here to your point of view. BTW, how do you plan to protect yourself and/or your family if you are attacked?!? Call 911? By the time they arrive, you or a loved one could be dead. People have been murdered over $20 or less. What is your gun free plan to save your life?!?
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Ruby wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    PDinDetroit wrote:
    Accounts seem a little sketchy, but appears this low-life targeted only women.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/07...est=latestnews
    Or is it that women are simply far more likely to be unarmed?

    Those who choose to be targets, will be. It's no different than 'gun free' zones. Don't presume gender prejudice. Women are far less likely to be armed or take responsibility for themselves. They don't even arm to protect their own children! They're easy targets. And criminals prefer easy targets.
    The majority of women were raised to depend on a man for protection.
    This makes it any less of a choice?

    Your statement is precisely my point. Women make a bold and public point of throwing off gender roles, hear me roar, etc.

    In light of this very conscious effort, the choice to be unarmed in spite of it, and common sense, is glaring. The 'I was told to be helpless and so I am' argument just plain does not fly. Women aren't obeying any of the other oppressive BS they claim is foisted upon them, why this?

    Women choose to be unarmed. It is easier to cry the victim lines when you choose to be helpless. It's much more partisan than it is gender related. Most women are also gun-hating liberals... Duh... It's about socialism. Planning ahead to be a victim for the party.

    Why are most women communists? I don't know. I didn't make them that way. I can theorize and postulate, but what's the point of that?
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    ixtow wrote:
    Ruby wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    PDinDetroit wrote:
    Accounts seem a little sketchy, but appears this low-life targeted only women.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/07...est=latestnews
    Or is it that women are simply far more likely to be unarmed?

    Those who choose to be targets, will be. It's no different than 'gun free' zones. Don't presume gender prejudice. Women are far less likely to be armed or take responsibility for themselves. They don't even arm to protect their own children! They're easy targets. And criminals prefer easy targets.
    The majority of women were raised to depend on a man for protection.
    This makes it any less of a choice?

    Your statement is precisely my point. Women make a bold and public point of throwing off gender roles, hear me roar, etc.

    In light of this very conscious effort, the choice to be unarmed in spite of it, and common sense, is glaring. The 'I was told to be helpless and so I am' argument just plain does not fly. Women aren't obeying any of the other oppressive BS they claim is foisted upon them, why this?

    Women choose to be unarmed. It is easier to cry the victim lines when you choose to be helpless. It's much more partisan than it is gender related. Most women are also gun-hating liberals... Duh... It's about socialism. Planning ahead to be a victim for the party.

    Why are most women communists? I don't know. I didn't make them that way. I can theorize and postulate, but what's the point of that?
    I still stand by my original post on the subject. There are more women armed now than ever before. Societal change takes time, sometimes a lot of time. I will not discuss this with you any longer; you have your opinions and I have mine. But from your latest post, you certainly seem to dislike women in general and the ones who are unarmed in particular. That attitude will not make women want to defend themselves with guns. The same could be said about men; I have dated several who were horrified to find that I carry a gun and wouldn't defend themselves with one to save their lives, so you can quit picking on women being unarmed. Education is the key, not criticizing or disliking people who don't do things your way. To say women are gun hating liberals is not accurate, some are, some aren't. I believe this forum has a rule about criticizing in a deragatory manner groups of people. You're close to stepping over that line.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    I think the reason many women don't carry or are afraid of guns comes down to:

    -Girls are still raised to be...girls. Guns and shooting are not considered "girly".

    -Feminist groups are anti gun- so damned if you do and damned if you don't. Go ahead and be manly and work a construction job, or be a CEO, or whatever "man job" you wish. Burn your bra, don't carry a purse, and have muscles from being at the gym everyday with the weight machines. But heaven forbid you own or carry a gun!

    -fashion- many women adhere to fashion and women's fashion doesn't tend to blend with means of carrying. Purse carry to me is verbotten, andI am sure many women have also thought of the possible purse snatcher, and just given up on the idea of carrying because how to you carry with the fashions?

    -Easy brainwashing by anti gunners- Sarah Brady, MMM,etc- women led groups and cries to "save the children". These groups make women think 911 is all they need.



    The pool of women left over seem to be the strong independant ones, kind of like those pioneer women who had to tough it out in the 18th and 19th centuries of this country. This is true American spirit. Think of Annie Oakley who had to hunt and trap to feed her siblings. This breed of woman was not the delicate tightly corsetted Victorian who relied on men to keep her safe.

    NowI don't know the stats on lesbians and the overall attitude of guns among this demographic, butI understand many of the gay groups are anti gun. I am happy to see that Pink Pistols has a following, even if small. Today I saw a woman who looked like the stereotype of "tough butchy lesbian" at the Tractor Supply store. This was in PA, and all she needed to complete her tough look was open carry! For the record I do know some lesbians who are pro gun and carry, but they live in MD.

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    XD40coyote wrote:
    I think the reason many women don't carry or are afraid of guns comes down to:

    -Girls are still raised to be...girls. Guns and shooting are not considered "girly".

    -Feminist groups are anti gun- so damned if you do and damned if you don't. Go ahead and be manly and work a construction job, or be a CEO, or whatever "man job" you wish. Burn your bra, don't carry a purse, and have muscles from being at the gym everyday with the weight machines. But heaven forbid you own or carry a gun!

    -fashion- many women adhere to fashion and women's fashion doesn't tend to blend with means of carrying. Purse carry to me is verbotten, andI am sure many women have also thought of the possible purse snatcher, and just given up on the idea of carrying because how to you carry with the fashions?

    -Easy brainwashing by anti gunners- Sarah Brady, MMM,etc- women led groups and cries to "save the children". These groups make women think 911 is all they need.



    The pool of women left over seem to be the strong independant ones, kind of like those pioneer women who had to tough it out in the 18th and 19th centuries of this country. This is true American spirit. Think of Annie Oakley who had to hunt and trap to feed her siblings. This breed of woman was not the delicate tightly corsetted Victorian who relied on men to keep her safe.

    NowI don't know the stats on lesbians and the overall attitude of guns among this demographic, butI understand many of the gay groups are anti gun. I am happy to see that Pink Pistols has a following, even if small. Today I saw a woman who looked like the stereotype of "tough butchy lesbian" at the Tractor Supply store. This was in PA, and all she needed to complete her tough look was open carry! For the record I do know some lesbians who are pro gun and carry, but they live in MD.
    You touched on a few things that I mentioned in my post above, and I agree with most of what you say. What I don't like about this thread right now is that ixtow is blaming the victims of this horrific crime against women, when the criminal that shot them is the one to blame. It's the same old song and dance that we've heard before, blame the victim, guilt the victim, it's their fault they were shot and killed. I hate this line of reasoning! While I would certainly like to see more women armed, they have to come to that choice on their own like the rest of us did. And it's not just women; there are PLENTY of men that do not carry guns and have no desire to do so. So do we blame them when one of them is a victim of a crime?!? Not bloody likely! Bashing of an demographic group on this forum is expressly forbidden in the forum rules; ixtow needs to take his hatred of women somewhere else!

    I carry in a gun purse because there is no other practical way for me to carry. I OC when I can. I have my own house cleaning service and cannot just walk into someone's home with a gun on my hip. Also not very practical when I'm cleaning a shower. (LOL) So I carry in a gun purse because it's better than no carry at all. We each do the best we can with the particular circumstances we have to deal with. I would like to see less criticism and more support on this forum.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    Would a fanny pack holster work for you? I guessI am a bit paranoid about purse snatchers, sinceI am from Baltimore. LOL

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    Ruby wrote:
    XD40coyote wrote:
    I think the reason many women don't carry or are afraid of guns comes down to:

    -Girls are still raised to be...girls. Guns and shooting are not considered "girly".

    -Feminist groups are anti gun- so damned if you do and damned if you don't. Go ahead and be manly and work a construction job, or be a CEO, or whatever "man job" you wish. Burn your bra, don't carry a purse, and have muscles from being at the gym everyday with the weight machines. But heaven forbid you own or carry a gun!

    -fashion- many women adhere to fashion and women's fashion doesn't tend to blend with means of carrying. Purse carry to me is verbotten, andI am sure many women have also thought of the possible purse snatcher, and just given up on the idea of carrying because how to you carry with the fashions?

    -Easy brainwashing by anti gunners- Sarah Brady, MMM,etc- women led groups and cries to "save the children". These groups make women think 911 is all they need.



    The pool of women left over seem to be the strong independant ones, kind of like those pioneer women who had to tough it out in the 18th and 19th centuries of this country. This is true American spirit. Think of Annie Oakley who had to hunt and trap to feed her siblings. This breed of woman was not the delicate tightly corsetted Victorian who relied on men to keep her safe.

    NowI don't know the stats on lesbians and the overall attitude of guns among this demographic, butI understand many of the gay groups are anti gun. I am happy to see that Pink Pistols has a following, even if small. Today I saw a woman who looked like the stereotype of "tough butchy lesbian" at the Tractor Supply store. This was in PA, and all she needed to complete her tough look was open carry! For the record I do know some lesbians who are pro gun and carry, but they live in MD.
    You touched on a few things that I mentioned in my post above, and I agree with most of what you say. What I don't like about this thread right now is that ixtow is blaming the victims of this horrific crime against women, when the criminal that shot them is the one to blame. It's the same old song and dance that we've heard before, blame the victim, guilt the victim, it's their fault they were shot and killed. I hate this line of reasoning! While I would certainly like to see more women armed, they have to come to that choice on their own like the rest of us did. And it's not just women; there are PLENTY of men that do not carry guns and have no desire to do so. So do we blame them when one of them is a victim of a crime?!? Not bloody likely! Bashing of an demographic group on this forum is expressly forbidden in the forum rules; ixtow needs to take his hatred of women somewhere else!

    I carry in a gun purse because there is no other practical way for me to carry. I OC when I can. I have my own house cleaning service and cannot just walk into someone's home with a gun on my hip. Also not very practical when I'm cleaning a shower. (LOL) So I carry in a gun purse because it's better than no carry at all. We each do the best we can with the particular circumstances we have to deal with. I would like to see less criticism and more support on this forum.
    Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, I have a fanny pack that I use in warm weather; still have to take it off when I clean bathrooms. I much prefer to have the gun on me than in a purse, but I do what I can.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    Ruby wrote:
    While I would certainly like to see more women armed, they have to come to that choice on their own like the rest of us did. And it's not just women; there are PLENTY of men that do not carry guns and have no desire to do so.
    I think the point Ixtow was trying to make is that it is a choice to remain unarmed. I certainly hope he wasn't suggesting that these people chose to be attacked or deserved the horrid outcome. I for one applaud you for your effort, and any other person who chooses to take responsibility for themselves. We've all heard and bought into some bad arguments in our life, but as adults we have the responsibility to wade through this information, identify the truth, and make our choices. Regardless of how "most women" are raised or how society treats them, it still boils down to a personal choice by an adult with free will. I see no difference between the man or the woman who makes the wrong choice.

    That being said, as a demographic group, I would LOVE to see more women carry and plan to teach my girls (whenever I finally have some) individual responsibly, self reliance, and critical thinking. Nothing would make me prouder than to know that my daughters could face the world on their own when I am gone, without the help of any man.

  16. #16
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    ixtow wrote:
    Ruby wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    PDinDetroit wrote:
    Accounts seem a little sketchy, but appears this low-life targeted only women.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/07...est=latestnews
    Or is it that women are simply far more likely to be unarmed?

    Those who choose to be targets, will be. It's no different than 'gun free' zones. Don't presume gender prejudice. Women are far less likely to be armed or take responsibility for themselves. They don't even arm to protect their own children! They're easy targets. And criminals prefer easy targets.
    The majority of women were raised to depend on a man for protection.
    This makes it any less of a choice?

    Your statement is precisely my point. Women make a bold and public point of throwing off gender roles, hear me roar, etc.

    In light of this very conscious effort, the choice to be unarmed in spite of it, and common sense, is glaring. The 'I was told to be helpless and so I am' argument just plain does not fly. Women aren't obeying any of the other oppressive BS they claim is foisted upon them, why this?

    Women choose to be unarmed. It is easier to cry the victim lines when you choose to be helpless. It's much more partisan than it is gender related. Most women are also gun-hating liberals... Duh... It's about socialism. Planning ahead to be a victim for the party.

    Why are most women communists? I don't know. I didn't make them that way. I can theorize and postulate, but what's the point of that?
    IXTOW has a point. I dunno about the slippery slope to communism, but the helpless female act is old and stale. The only reason women continue to do it is because it strikes a chord in men and makes us do things for them out of pity. It is manipulative.

    Well I'm not that guy. I find someone who chooses helplessness unattractive. Strong women, of will if not body are attractive to me. Its attractive if a woman can beat me arm-wrestling. Its attractive if a woman can shoot better than me.

    That being said, there are many psychological reasons women, especially young women are like this. Point is, people change! Many conservative women started off liberal. We grow and we change. I say influence, don't alienate!!

    And "planning ahead to be a victim for the party." - Just a little crazy. They put themselves in this position because they trust in lies and falsehoods, not to be a 'victim for the party.' Anyone who understands these are lies and falsehoods either walk around with armed bodyguards, or they're not Progressives.
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