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Thread: Issue of UOC with attached loaded magazine and local Police Chief

  1. #1
    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Hello everyone,
    I'm sure this has happened before but wanted to get advice as to what action to take.
    I emailed the local police chief asking for clarification on some municipal codes regarding firearms in parks and "trails" in Hermosa Beach as well as the PD's handling of UOCers.

    The chief made it clear that he felt his officers would be making an arrest if they found a UOCer to have ammo on their person in anyway.

    Here is the chief's email:

    Mr. Green,

    Thank you for your support and kind words. The police department does
    not have a "position" on open carry. Open carry is not illegal at this
    time. Officer's are not under any specific orders or policy concerning
    open carry. If one chose to participate in open carry one could expect
    to have the weapon's status checked and depending on the area and the
    officer's perception of risk they can expect to see the officer with his
    gun drawn and at the ready.

    The "Greenbelt" is a city park and would be subject to Hermosa Beach
    Municipal Code section 12.28.030 which prohibits carrying of a firearm.

    I would like to add however, that open carry is when the weapon is
    unloaded. You can not bring or carry ammunition with you either, so I
    do not see how carrying an unloaded firearm, at night, would help in
    most situations. Other legal self defense options exist, such as pepper
    spray or the civilian Taser (an electronic stun device)that would be
    much more effective.
    Do you recommend contacting an attorney in the area before I actually do UOC? What have others done with similar LEOs?

    Secondly, what have you seen in regard to bans of firearms in parks in CA? I know Seattle recently struck down a similar ordinance, is there any similar action going on in CA?

  2. #2
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    hgreen wrote:
    Do you recommend contacting an attorney in the area before I actually do UOC? What have others done with similar LEOs?

    Secondly, what have you seen in regard to bans of firearms in parks in CA? I know Seattle recently struck down a similar ordinance, is there any similar action going on in CA?
    Yes, contact an attorney for legal advice. Neither we, nor the police are qualified to give you advice about legal matters.

    Weapons are not permited in State Parks. Local ordinances banning possession are technically pre-empted by State law, but no one really wants to put this to a test until our rights are better secured.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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  3. #3
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    As long as you're not in a state park you can carry your unloaded pistol or revolver with ammunition on your person. Your pistol's magazine may be full, just not in the mag well. Most carry the mag on the weak side in a mag holster. Or if you have a revolver you can carry a speed loader in your pocket or belt holder.

    Because many LEA's say they will lay you out and draw weapons on UOC'ers, it is highly recommended that you are keenly aware of the penal codes relating to UOC and transport of a concealable firearm, so please refer to those.

    Also it is highly recommended that you have a personal recording device such as an audio recorder or video recorder on your person and actively recording while you go about your lawful business.

    Asking LEA's for legal advice is not recommended for many reasons, mainly because they don't know what they are.

    You might want to consider sending your local police chief the various briefs and memorandums from district attorneys that do indicate you can carry your firearm and ammunition at the same time.

    Do your research, consult an attorney if you wish, and carry on!


    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

  4. #4
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    The reply from the LEO is another good reason not to talk to cops. Do your research.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  5. #5
    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    If a LEO knowingly lies to you when answering a question, are there any repercussions for them?
    I know they are legally allowed to lie to suspects that are arrested to obtain information, but if an average citizens asks a legitimate question and they answer in a truthful context but are lying, what are the implications, if any?

    Anyone with first-hand experience here?

  6. #6
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    hgreen wrote:
    If a LEO knowingly lies to you when answering a question, are there any repercussions for them?
    I know they are legally allowed to lie to suspects that are arrested to obtain information, but if an average citizens asks a legitimate question and they answer in a truthful context but are lying, what are the implications, if any?

    Anyone with first-hand experience here?
    There are no statutory obligations for police to tell you the truth. They are permitted to share their opinions and spread as much FUD as they want. They are no different than anyone else in that respect.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  7. #7
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    hgreen wrote:
    If a LEO knowingly lies to you when answering a question, are there any repercussions for them?
    I know they are legally allowed to lie to suspects that are arrested to obtain information, but if an average citizens asks a legitimate question and they answer in a truthful context but are lying, what are the implications, if any?

    Anyone with first-hand experience here?
    If they are asking you questions, they are trying to get information. Decline to answer any questions, and close the pie hole. Decline any searches. They need reasonable suspicion to search you without your consent. UOC'ing is not RS.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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