OC for off-duty federal employees

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I recently became a federal employee. My job does not involve LE or carrying a firearm, and I am prohibited from carrying in anyway on duty. During our new-hire ethics and conduct orientation we were told that our actions on our own time could affect our job, i.e. no DUI's, that we shouldn't do anything that we wouldn't want on the front page, etc. Also, we were told that engaging in actions off-duty that could even just be perceived as illegal could result in termination

Have any of you who are or have been federal employees ever had any issues with your OCing affecting your job?

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Im collecting unemployment from the federal gov-ment and i oc

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As long as you're not carrying on federal property, carrying in your personal life will not have an effect on your job.

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petrophase wrote:

I recently became a federal employee. My job does not involve LE or carrying a firearm, and I am prohibited from carrying in anyway on duty. During our new-hire ethics and conduct orientation we were told that our actions on our own time could affect our job, i.e. no DUI's, that we shouldn't do anything that we wouldn't want on the front page, etc. Also, we were told that engaging in actions off-duty that could even just be perceived as illegal could result in termination

Have any of you who are or have been federal employees ever had any issues with your OCing affecting your job?

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No.

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petrophase wrote:

I recently became a federal employee. My job does not involve LE or carrying a firearm, and I am prohibited from carrying in anyway on duty. During our new-hire ethics and conduct orientation we were told that our actions on our own time could affect our job, i.e. no DUI's, that we shouldn't do anything that we wouldn't want on the front page, etc. Also, we were told that engaging in actions off-duty that could even just be perceived as illegal could result in termination

Have any of you who are or have been federal employees ever had any issues with your OCing affecting your job?

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I guess you can call me a federal employee (or property) but i OC all the time when im off duty. As long as you dont Carry and present it as if it were in an official capacity you should be just fine. What you do in your private life is in your private life. Just dont go to an OC rally with anything that shows youre a member of whatever agency youre in or in your uniform. Thats my take on it. You could also contact your Ethics officer and ask them. In the Army if we get a written opinion from our Ethics representatives it offers Immunity if any trouble arises. I'm NOT a lawyer or an ethics represenative.

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I am a retired 85th percentile federal civil servant.

There was never mention of carrying personal arms during my career. Personal arms were prohibited on federal property. Security was maintained by armed Marines authorized to use deadly force.

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So whats the question? If you are doing something legally can you get in trouble at work for it????

If you get fired for OCing ( Legally ) then I would think you have a very good lawsuit.

Also why the hell are you asking us? Ask your boss or HR. What are you going to do when you get fired, tell them that the opencarry.org said it was ok! LOL

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During your probationary period, you are an at-will employee. They can let you go for any reason, or no reason, and don't even have to say anything other than they have decided to not continue your employment.

So... if it's a PC atmosphere, or if you plan to do anything political, then you might opt for discretion.

Once you have been offered career conditional (non-probationary) status after your rookie year, then go for it, as long as you're not breaking any laws.

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jeremy05 wrote:

So whats the question? If you are doing something legally can you get in trouble at work for it????

If you get fired for OCing ( Legally ) then I would think you have a very good lawsuit.

Also why the hell are you asking us? Ask your boss or HR. What are you going to do when you get fired, tell them that the opencarry.org said it was ok! LOL

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I would say it would largely depend on the conditions of your employment which constitute a contract.

Beyond that, unless you are a member of a protected class, employers can pretty much fire you for whatever reason. If I worked for an employer who did not allow me to OC off-duty, I'd respect his right to implement employment policies of his choosing and find another employer.

Ain't Liberty wonderful? Of course Liberty is only meaningful if we all have it. If one does not like the conditions that his employer puts on employment, he is free to seek employment elsewhere.

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jeremy05 wrote:

So whats the question? If you are doing something legally can you get in trouble at work for it????

If you get fired for OCing ( Legally ) then I would think you have a very good lawsuit.

Also why the hell are you asking us? Ask your boss or HR. What are you going to do when you get fired, tell them that the opencarry.org said it was ok! LOL

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Out of curiousity what would you think you were going to cite as grounds for the suit?

In normal employment situations, you can be fired because your boss doesn't like the way you part your hair orchoose your clothingunless you have a collective bargaining agreement, civil serviceregulations or an employmentcontract spelling out discharge/termination procedures.

I took this initially as the impersonal and generalized "you" which would mean the vast majority of workers. Yes, once past probation period with a government agency your termination would be governed by Civil Service regulations. Any "suit" would involve not following the regs, not that you were fired for a "legal" activity.

In almost every state, thebest you would get is a wrongful discharge finding from the State Department of Labor and get to collect your unemployment for the base period. No one's gonna give you punitive damages, back wagesor order you reinstated to your old job.

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jeremy05 wrote:

So whats the question? If you are doing something legally can you get in trouble at work for it????

If you get fired for OCing ( Legally ) then I would think you have a very good lawsuit.

Also why the hell are you asking us? Ask your boss or HR. What are you going to do when you get fired, tell them that the opencarry.org said it was ok! LOL

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I don't really feel that my OCing off-duty will be problematic; I specified that I was looking for advice or experiences from current or former federal employees because working for the federal government means that one works for the public and therefore must maintain the "public-trust.":?

One consequence of this is that there many confusing ethics rules and guidelines for federal employees (for example, see the Hatch Act of 1939).

My agency has an unhelpful centralized HR many miles away. However, I have talked to the office ethics person hence "...engaging in actions off-duty that could even just be perceived as illegal could result in termination."

I'm not looking for legal advice from OCDO, just curious of the experiences of others.

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petrophase wrote:

jeremy05 wrote:

So whats the question? If you are doing something legally can you get in trouble at work for it????

If you get fired for OCing ( Legally ) then I would think you have a very good lawsuit.

Also why the hell are you asking us? Ask your boss or HR. What are you going to do when you get fired, tell them that the opencarry.org said it was ok! LOL

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I don't really feel that my OCing off-duty will be problematic; I specified that I was looking for advice or experiences from current or former federal employees because working for the federal government means that one works for the public and therefore must maintain the "public-trust.":?

One consequence of this is that there many confusing ethics rules and guidelines for federal employees (for example, see the Hatch Act of 1939).

My agency has an unhelpful centralized HR many miles away. However, I have talked to the office ethics person hence "...engaging in actions off-duty that could even just be perceived as illegal could result in termination."

I'm not looking for legal advice from OCDO, just curious of the experiences of others.

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Ask your ethics office for an opinion specifically pertaining to Open carry and be sure to provide them with some sort of cite to show that it is legal. You should be fine.

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petrophase wrote:

I recently became a federal employee. My job does not involve LE or carrying a firearm, and I am prohibited from carrying in anyway on duty. During our new-hire ethics and conduct orientation we were told that our actions on our own time could affect our job, i.e. no DUI's, that we shouldn't do anything that we wouldn't want on the front page, etc. Also, we were told that engaging in actions off-duty that could even just be perceived as illegal could result in termination

Have any of you who are or have been federal employees ever had any issues with your OCing affecting your job?

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If you are acting within the laws of your state, then it is simply none of their business and you should be fine.

INAL

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I have been a federal employee; I left to pursue similar work with defense contractors.

There is no issue with LEGAL firearms-related actions off duty and off federal property.

The Hatch Act is a different kettle of fish altogether; recommend you study it carefully, and ask your agency's ethics officers to ensure you understand it. Some areas can be very gray.

Yes, as a federal employee you have the public-trust issue, and perception CAN BE reality. However, legal actions are legal actions.
- Unless you're very high up the chain, it's highly unlikely anyone could argue that your actions place you in the position of representing the government.
- You have a guarantee of rebuttal if you believe you're being treated unfairly, particularly for off-duty actions. I don't know that all federal offices call things the same, but your human capital office or your ethics office (or your union, if you're unionized) will have the procedures to follow. Unlike 25sierraman, I recommend you don't bother investigating this ahead of time; it'll be there if you need it.

Up to you how you choose to act during your probationary period, when they theoretically can let you go for very little reason, but even so, the reality is that a lot of paperwork and warning will be required.