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Thread: ATF declares Airsoft gun to be a "firearm"

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Read the ATF's letter and draw your own conclusions:

    http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/201...-real-firearm/

    My thoughts? Ok, with some modifications they got it to fire rounds.


    Well, a couple of feet of 3/4" steel pipe from the plumbing store isn't a firearm, but with less than $5 worth of additional hardware, it can easily be modified to shoot 12 ga. shells. So should steel pipe be classified as a firearm?
    A. Gold

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    bhancock
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    Whether it is a modified airsoft or pipe, it should only be treated as a firearm when it is actually able to fire an explosive round sending a projectile out the business end at a terminal velocity. Again we have the creation of rules and or legislation that just isn't needed. For the number of mods out there, I am sure they can be dealt with case by case using existing statutes.

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    Airsoft or pipe, the statutory definition in Wisconsin is "by force of gunpowder".

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    Regular Member Gordo's Avatar
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    Once again the ATF is showing that the only thing they should be is a store on the corner of my street.
    Former Corporal of Marines.

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    bhancock wrote:
    Whether it is a modified airsoft or pipe, it should only be treated as a firearm when it is actually able to fire an explosive round sending a projectile out the business end at a terminal velocity. Again we have the creation of rules and or legislation that just isn't needed. For the number of mods out there, I am sure they can be dealt with case by case using existing statutes.
    "Terminal velocity?" I'm sure you didn't mean that. Terminal velocity is the maximum speed something reaches due to wind resistance when falling towards the ground. In the case of a feather, it's not very fast.

    I don't know, this airsoft case is strange. Taking a length of pipe, which isn't originally designed to fire a projectile via gunpowder, and modifying it to shoot rounds for personal use is legal. Not legal to sell to others because then you'd need a gun manufacturers license, but for personal use it's ok.

    Now how is this different from the airsoft gun? It isn't originally designed to fire a projectile via gunpowder either. So what if you can modify it so it works with cartridges? If you make those modifications, then sell it, you'd need a manufacturers license. But if you haven't modified it... it's still a toy, right? ATF seems a little screwy in it's reasoning. The fact is, they couldn't just replace the toy upper with an actual upper and make it work on the receiver. I guess they're saying it could be "readily converted." Well the amount of "conversion" is more than it takes to make a shotgun out of steel pipe.

    Seems like the ATF has a bit too much time on it's hands. Reminds me of when they made crossbows out of newspapers and underwear elastic on Mythbusters.


    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    Hmmm they had to modify it to fire, this guy had to modify a block of wood to fire also
    http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/forum...=8035&PN=1
    Maybe the BATF will be raiding lumber stores soon .

  7. #7
    bhancock
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    Shotgun wrote:
    bhancock wrote:
    Whether it is a modified airsoft or pipe, it should only be treated as a firearm when it is actually able to fire an explosive round sending a projectile out the business end at a terminal velocity. Again we have the creation of rules and or legislation that just isn't needed. For the number of mods out there, I am sure they can be dealt with case by case using existing statutes.
    "Terminal velocity?" I'm sure you didn't mean that. Terminal velocity is the maximum speed something reaches due to wind resistance when falling towards the ground. In the case of a feather, it's not very fast.

    I don't know, this airsoft case is strange. Taking a length of pipe, which isn't originally designed to fire a projectile via gunpowder, and modifying it to shoot rounds for personal use is legal. Not legal to sell to others because then you'd need a gun manufacturers license, but for personal use it's ok.

    Now how is this different from the airsoft gun? It isn't originally designed to fire a projectile via gunpowder either. So what if you can modify it so it works with cartridges? If you make those modifications, then sell it, you'd need a manufacturers license. But if you haven't modified it... it's still a toy, right? ATF seems a little screwy in it's reasoning. The fact is, they couldn't just replace the toy upper with an actual upper and make it work on the receiver. I guess they're saying it could be "readily converted." Well the amount of "conversion" is more than it takes to make a shotgun out of steel pipe.

    Seems like the ATF has a bit too much time on it's hands. Reminds me of when they made crossbows out of newspapers and underwear elastic on Mythbusters.

    Yeah, ok. That is why I am not a lawyer or a politician. More of redneck term for how fast an object has to move to 'kill' the target. And by explosive, I assumed by the use of gunpowder. Point is, it should be treated as what it is, not necessarily by what it can become in the hands of the right technician.

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    Shotgun wrote: Now I think I might even be able to talk the wife into letting build one of those....

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    bnhcomputing wrote:
    Shotgun wrote: Now I think I might even be able to talk the wife into letting build one of those....
    Now that is sweet!

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    Campaign Veteran GlockMeisterG21's Avatar
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    If this is what I think it is the issue is that the gun is a copy of an ar15 and the airsoft lower will accept a real upper. Since the lower is the serialized part of the firearm this is an easy way to create a firearm without going through any background checks.
    “The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair.” — Col. Jeff Cooper, GUNS & AMMO, January 2002

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    GlockMeisterG21 wrote:
    If this is what I think it is the issue is that the gun is a copy of an ar15 and the airsoft lower will accept a real upper. Since the lower is the serialized part of the firearm this is an easy way to create a firearm without going through any background checks.
    The issue I have is they had to modify it to accept an upper. They said it was relatively simple but I guess I don't trust the ATF, you know the guys that declared a shoe string a machine gun. I just don't see a criminal obtaining every part for an AR and building it on a plastic lower. They got it to fire three rounds but I bet they had something supporting the buffer tube and not just the lower, I'm sure they will claim it was just a holding fixture for their safety.

    Maybe it's just me but if the criminals are going to "make" AR's anyway I'd prefer they used junk plastic lowers that will fail almost instantly.

    Thinking about it some more before I hit the post button, I guess the air soft gun doesn't need to be that accurate, but it still bothers me it's an issue......

  13. #13
    McX
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    i'm going to put in for my foid card- airsoft! maybe non res. permit to carry- airsoft? FFL-airsoft? get's more redicluos the more i say.

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    McX wrote:
    i'm going to put in for my foid card- airsoft! maybe non res. permit to carry- airsoft? FFL-airsoft? get's more redicluos the more i say.
    When you get your Airsoft FFL, let me know. I could use a new ultra lite lower for my AR. Mine is piston driven, hope you have a lower that works for me

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    McX
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    i wonder if they'll make airsoft slides for my hi point! coming soon to an s-mart near you!

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    Thats it.I am making my kids throw their squirt guns in the trash right now!

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    McX
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    now there's a law abiding citizen!

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    revolverrandy wrote:
    Thats it.I am making my kids throw their squirt guns in the trash right now!
    For God's sake, MAKE SURE THEY AREN'T LOADED! :what:
    Dave
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