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Thread: Homepage > Baltimore News Off-Duty Officer Fatally Shoots Unarmed Marine

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    Man Shot 6 Times Outside Baltimore Nightclub BALTIMORE --http://www.wbaltv.com/news/23810790/detail.html?hpt=T2

    City police officials continued to investigate Monday after an off-duty police officer fatally shot an unarmed Marine outside a nightclub early Saturday.According to Baltimore City police, Tyrone Brown -- a 32-year-old Marine who has served two tours of duty in Iraq -- was shot at 13 times at close range, with six shots hitting him. He died a short time later.The incident happened outside a nightclub in Mount Vernon.Baltimore police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said the officer, identified as 36-year-old Gahji Tshamba, shot Brown after Brown made advances toward a woman who was with the officer.
    "After the advances, the officer and the individual exchanged words," Gugliemi said. "There was an argument, and the altercation turned physical. At that point, the officer pulled out his service weapon and fired multiple shots at our victim."Brown's sister said she was there when her brother was shot. She said they were out at about 1:30 a.m. Saturday when they approached a group of people -- including the off-duty officer -- leaving Eden's Lounge.


    "There was absolutely no physical contact," said La-Belle Scott, Brown's sister. "The supposed officer was not in any harm whatsoever. He (Brown) had his hands up to show he didn't have no weapons or anything."Scott said her brother tried to diffuse the situation."My brother tried to approach him, saying, 'Calm down, calm down. All this is uncalled for.' And, the next thing you know, several shots rang out. It was maybe eight or nine shots that rang out, and then, all I know is my brother is telling me, 'I'm shot,'" Scott said.Brown's family said they're having a hard time understanding the whole situation, saying Brown wasn't a violent man.

    "It's just crazy that he would have to shoot 13 times at an unarmed man,
    " Scott said. "He was a loving, caring person. (He) always looked out for everybody. He loved his kids. His family came first."Brown is survived by a wife and two children."Tyrone was the love of my life. I don't know how else to put it," said Brown's wife, Loren. "We just (have to) take it one step at a time, one day at a time and just put it in God's hands. That's all I can do."As they gather to support each other, the family said they have one wish for the future."I just hope justice will be served because my brother was supposed to walk me down the aisle next month.

    I'm getting married on July 24, and he would've walked me down the aisle and he's not here," Scott said.The state's attorney's office will review the evidence and decide whether to file charges, which also is customary, he said. Police said they are investigating whether alcohol was a factor. The officer declined to take an alcohol breath test. Guglielmi said Tshamba, a 15-year-veteran, shot a man in the foot after a confrontation while off duty in 2005. The shooting was found to be justified (THIN BLUE LINE THERE), but Tshamba was disciplined because he was under the influence of alcohol. Police Commissioner Frederick H. Bealefeld III has ordered his senior commanders to oversee the investigation.Officers typically carry their service weapons while off-duty in Baltimore, but Guglielmi said they should not be carrying their guns if they intend to become intoxicated.




    This is so f&^* up on so many levels. I still stand by my past posts that A GUN HAS ZERO PLACE IN A BAR IN THE HANDS OF ANY PERSONS, NOT A COP, CIVILIAN, MILITARY PERSONAL. NO ONE. WHO HAS BEEN DRINKING.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    better take guns away from cops to dangerous

    they should stick with tasers

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Once again, I only have two words:


    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    NOT MY WORDS


    Whether this case prompts a ban or a review of the rules will be up to police commanders. Baltimore City police officers are guided by several rules, some of which appear contradictory, but are designed to allow them to exercise sound judgment when dealing with their weapons. In fact, they can get into trouble if they don't intervene in crimes that occurr in their presence even when they're off duty.
    Generally, they are required to be armed at all times, off-duty and on, when within the city limits. But there are of course exceptions.
    Here is a sampling of some of the rules city police officers operate under, taken directly from the official Rules and Regulations of the Baltimore Police Department:
    "Members of the Department are sworn in as peace officers of Baltimore City and, as such, are considered to be on-duty or read for duty at all times. Failure to stop and perform the necessary police duties while off-duty or on leave shall be considered neglect of duty."
    In another section:

    "All members of the Department are prohibited from indulgence in intoxicating liquors while on duty, or while off duty in uniform or partial uniform. ... Memberes, while off-duty, shall refrain from consuming intoxicating beverages to the extent that it results in obnoxious or offensive behavior which would discredit them or the Department, or to such extent that at the time of the member's next regular tour of duty they are impaired or intoxicated and thereby unfit for duty."
    And in yet another section:

    "All sorn members of the Department shall be suitably armed at all times when on-duty. Sworn members, off-duty, within the City of Baltimore, shall be suitably armed, except at such times, or under such circumstances, or when engaged in such activities as a prudent person would reasonably conclude the wearing of a firearm to be inappropriate."




    http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news...s_in_bars.html


    I say he failed that last rule for sure. I am very much against guns in bars, especially in the hands of anyone who has consumed even a drop of booze. Booze and guns do not mixed. It rubs me the wrong way that cop knew he was in the wrong by drinking and carrying and refused a breathalyzer. That he has not been put on leave or anything while the investigation is ongoing. If it was anyone else we would be sitting in jail or having to post bond if we refused to given a breathalyzer, especially in shooting where the shooter could very easily have overreacted due to the consumption a beer or shot. Its just seem like they are protecting one of their own in this case, that if it was me or any other gun owner we would be in jail on felon charges and not get a nasty letter or time off from work. That is my biggest problem about the whole thing is the double standard. I have a family full of retired and serving police officers so it certainly nothing against the police, it just looks like that it even if it is found to be a justified shooting that anyone else would not be getting the same protection of their rights like this police officer is getting. We would be in jail, or on bound and the ATF would be tearing apart our home looking for evidence. Please tell me I am wrong here, that we would not be arrested for refusing a breathalyzer or for the simple fact of not being on felony charges for carrying while under the influence of a controlled substance.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    I wonder if anyone thought to video this encounter, and if the official security videos will disappear down the memory hole like that kid that got beat in College Park?...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I don't believe alcohol was the problem.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    1) From what was state, the off duty officer should be sitting in a jail cell.
    2) Married men with children at home shouldn't be in bars at 1:30am hitting on other women.
    3) I will never live in the peoples republic of Maryland

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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    I don't believe alcohol was the problem.
    The cop didn't either, which is why he did not consent to be tested. The shooting was justified because he said so.

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    Dreamer wrote:
    I wonder if anyone thought to video this encounter...

    Isn't it illegal to video cops in MD?

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    Isn't it illegal to video cops in MD?
    Yes, in fact I think we may find that it's even slightly more illegal than shooting Marines...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Dreamer wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    Isn't it illegal to video cops in MD?
    Yes, in fact I think we may find that it's even slightly more illegal than shooting Marines...
    Stories like the one OP presented make me mad in so many ways. So here's a quick vent, pay no attention.

    1) Cops can carry whenever they want
    2) Cops protect their own
    3) Cops have a God complex or power trip
    4) Cops are above the law
    5) Cops think that only they should be armed
    6) Cops think people, in general, are guilty
    7) Cops search for anything with with to charge an individual
    8) Cops can shoot anything
    9) Cops can do anything
    10) Cops can lie, cheat, steal
    11) Cops can...

    But I can't and won't lump all law enforcement officers into the "bad cop" category. I like to believe that most are honorable and try to do the right thing for us all. Jackboots like this Balti cop, however, have no business wearing a badge. This was no way to "serve and protect".

    Off-duty cop gets into a bar fight? No worries, he has a badge to protect himself. Too bad for the other guy though. No get out of jail free card for him.

    I'll calm down in a minute or two, so thanks for the space to vent.

    edit: oh, and what a way to end two tours of duty in Iraq. Shot by an American.

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    And this has to do with OC how?

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    I believe this is an example of when use of lethal force is NOT justified.

    A drunken marine out on the town who allegedly groped your wife is generally NOTa justifiable reason to completely unload your Glock 22 in a bar parking lot in the general direction of the alleged groper...

    Oh, and speaking of unloading your Glock, the initial reports were that the victim was shot 6 times. The most RECENT report (based on the coroners exam, not eyewitnesses) is that he was struck 9 times. So at least this particular officer, in a point-blank "self defense" situation was able to score slightly more than 56%...

    But even when faced with a drunken Marine, I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that if someone is being an inebriated a$$hat, that is NOT a situation where use of lethal force is justified...


    I think this is also an example of how badly the "system" has failed in cities like Baltimore, where a "police officer" who had two questionable shoots in his recent past, and ordered a woman strip-searched after arresting her because he didn't like the way she signed her traffic ticket, is STILL on the force, and STILL carrying off-duty while drinking.

    Apparently Officer Tsambe has a bit of a record with the department...
    Public records indicate that Tshamba has been the target of Internal Affairs investigations before.Records show that in July 1998, Tshamba shot a man in a foot chase.

    According to the Baltimore Sun, in 2005, he shot another man in the foot while he was off duty. While the shooting was deemed justified, he was disciplined for being intoxicated.

    In 2001, Tshamba's conduct came into question when he arrested a female driver in part because he didn't like the way she signed a traffic ticket, records showed. The woman was strip-searched during processing at Central Booking. She later sued over the incident and won.
    Also note that the news report say that he "declined to take a breathalizer test". Declined? If this had been a citizen, they would have said he REFUSED to take the test.

    It also is an example of how LEO's operate under TWO very different set of procedures for the general public and their own. Had this been a "citizen" with a permit, they would have been arrested, and probably charged with disorderly conduct for refusing to take the breathalizer. They also would have had their carry permit suspended because of that refusal. An the media would have been railing against some "crazed gunman who unloaded his Glock automatic pistol into an unarmed victim after a night of drinking and carousing", rather than simply stating that he "defended himself after an altercation".

    This is not gratuitous cop-bashing. It is exposing the fact that Baltimore PD has some very deeply-rooted, endemic problems. It is exposing the fact that DESPITE the constant harping by the Baltimore PD, the Mayor, the MPD and the MD Governor that the ONLY people who should be allowed to carry guns in MD are the police, the police they hire seem to be almost as bad as the gangbangers and thugs. And it is exposing the fact that the MD court system is perhaps one of the most corrupt court systems in the country, and has been covering for MD "officials" and giving this criminal enterprise they call "government" a pass on their lawless thuggery for decades.

    Personally, knowing what I know about the history of various urban police departments in MD over the last 20 years, I fear MORE for my safety (and that of my family) when I see a cruiser than when I see a "hoopdie" with "20s" rolling down the block, ESPECIALLY since I have out-of-state plates and VCDL and Guns Save Lives magnets on my trunk...

    There is a reason I don't go to bars when I visit MD, and it's NOT because I am afraid of being mugged and can't carry to protect myself. It's because there is a high likelihood that my vehicle will be "probably cause" to get jacked by "the man", and the fact that it would be a FELONY for me to video or audio record the encounter.

    I hope some video of this encounter surface soon. I'm VERY curious to see if anyone was quick-thinking enough to turn on their cell phone camera, or if there were security cameras in that area. And if a citizen recorded this event, I'd be VERY curious to see if the MD AG will charge them with felony wiretapping if they go public...

    Two laws for two classes.

    Annapolis needs to straighten up and start flying right, or they're going to start hearing the shouts and chants of the People of MD in their streets. This wasn't some common street thug from the hood--this most recent victim was a decorated, 2-tour US Marine with a family.

    And the "accused shooter" is a dicey cop with anger-management issues and a record of abuse of his badge...


    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    eye95 wrote:
    And this has to do with OC how?
    Do you think the police would have reacted the same way if the other person was open carrying in the bar, we all talk about how it would deter a lot of things. Yet would it have stopped the marine from supposedly hitting on another mans piece of tail. Would he have allowed it to escalate as far as it did, would a honest gun owner would even put himself into that mess to begin with?

    We have had numinous threads on carrying in places such as this and that many HERE have said they would carry in a bar and would consume booze to boot. Yet citizens are not allowed to do this in Baltimore and yet the police are allowed to pretty much violates every law that prevents us from protecting ourselves in bars in the name of safety. I guess my long winded point is this that a officer trained to deescalate situations pushed a simple problem into a huge ungodly mess and was certainly drunk(why else would you refuse a breathalyzer). He was carrying a weapon and missed 7 out of his 13 shots at close range, thank god no one else was hit by his poor
    marksmanship.

    How a person can tell me that he was able to consume a mild altering drug and make good sound decisions and that it should be legal for the rest of us to do the same is just crazy to me. I would have no problem a person being allowed to carry a gun in places like this who are the DD for example and have not had a single drop. Are members here just as irresponsible as this officer was, I would say I no. Yet my biggest concern is there are people who are out there that would allow their judgment to become compromised and further stupidity like this will happen. Why anyone would risk their rights to carry a firearm while consuming a mild altering drug make no sense to me. The risk of something extremely stupid just seem to far out way any befit. Why would any responsible gun owner would want to give such damning evidence to the anti gun crowd. Where they could easily use it against all other gun owners because they allowed their good judgment to be compromised. We have worked so very hard to get as far as we have come and people just want to toss that away.



    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    The above reminds me of the reasoning Congress uses to say that everything is about interstate commerce.

    I guess everything is about OC.

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    Regular Member RussP's Avatar
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    kwikrnu wrote:
    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    I don't believe alcohol was the problem.
    The cop didn't either, which is why he did not consent to be tested. The shooting was justified because he said so.
    Would you have if the situation was you open carrying your PLR-16 in a bar in Tennessee?
    Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

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    RussP wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    I don't believe alcohol was the problem.
    The cop didn't either, which is why he did not consent to be tested. The shooting was justified because he said so.
    Would you have if the situation was you open carrying your PLR-16 in a bar in Tennessee?
    We civilians do not have a choice, if we refused we would be in jail for it. It seems cops have more rights then we do, he has the right to decline the test with no additionally charges.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    I see a suspended officer,IA investigation, criminal charges and a former police officer probably in jail based on the information presented so far.

    I'd have taken the sobriety test without any hesitation.

    Of course, I wouldn't have been silly enough to be in this situation in the first place.

    What an idiot.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    +1, My Brother...

    45acpForMe wrote:
    1) From what was stated, the off duty officer should be sitting in a jail cell (on unpaid leave, of course).
    2) Married men with children at home shouldn't be in bars at 1:30am hitting on other women.
    3) I will never live in the peoples republic of Maryland again.
    4) The off-duty officer shouldn't have been carrying and consuming ANY alcohol. Even small quantities of alcohol impair your JUDGEMENT as was glaringly obvious in this case.
    Fired 13 rounds, 7 misses, close range??? WHERE did the other rounds go? How close did those rounds come to hitting bystanders?
    The "Officer" should bebehind bars until he is convicted. Given his propensity for violence and history of poor judgement, he is certainly a danger to society. HOW did he pass the psych eval when he was hired? I shudder to think he was exempt because of AFFIRMATIVE ACTION (aka: REVERSE DISCRIMINATION).
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    zack991 wrote:
    RussP wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    I don't believe alcohol was the problem.
    The cop didn't either, which is why he did not consent to be tested. The shooting was justified because he said so.
    Would you have if the situation was you open carrying your PLR-16 in a bar in Tennessee?
    We civilians do not have a choice, if we refused we would be in jail for it. It seems cops have more rights then we do, he has the right to decline the test with no additionally charges.
    Of course you have a choice. The only time a consequence can be assessed for refusing an alcohol test is if you are driving. Most States (probably all) have "implied consent" laws allowing the State to yank your DL if you are pulled over for suspected DUI and refuse to be tested.

    The reason the State can do this is because driving on State roads is a licensed privilege and a law has been passed stating that by getting licensed and driving on State roads you are implicitly agreeing to alcohol tests.

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    he should be fired, arrested, tried and convicted of murder and should also have the book thrown at him for refusing to take a breathalyzer test and if Baltimore has a punishment for firing a gun in the city limits, get him on that, too.

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    If I shoot someone and the cops want a blood test I'll have no problem giving one, infact I'll probably request one.

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    Regular Member RussP's Avatar
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    kwikrnu wrote:
    If I shoot someone and the cops want a blood test I'll have no problem giving one, infact I'll probably request one.
    Leonard, the question was not whether you would take a "blood test". The officer declined to take a breath test.

    Since you blew the first question, lets add in the facts in this incident. You've been out drinking for a few hours. You know your BAC will probably be over the limit for being under the influence. You also know that it is legal for you to refuse the field breath test.

    Remember, you've been drinking. Would you take the lawful path of declining the field breath test? It isn't illegal.
    Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    If I shoot someone and the cops want a blood test I'll have no problem giving one, infact I'll probably request one.
    You're welcome to give up your 4th Amendment rights.

    I would do the same as the officer and decline.
    Live Free or Die!

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    RussP wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    If I shoot someone and the cops want a blood test I'll have no problem giving one, infact I'll probably request one.
    Leonard, the question was not whether you would take a "blood test". The officer declined to take a breath test.

    Since you blew the first question, lets add in the facts in this incident. You've been out drinking for a few hours. You know your BAC will probably be over the limit for being under the influence. You also know that it is legal for you to refuse the field breath test.

    Remember, you've been drinking. Would you take the lawful path of declining the field breath test? It isn't illegal.
    I'm not a cop and would be charged with 1st degree murder. I would rather have evidence that I had not been drinking and was not medicated. I don't drink and don't do drugs.

    If I was the cop and had been drinking and just murdered someone I would refuse the test and take my two weeks like det. tuason in palo alto would do.

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