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Thread: Stopped while OC ing last night

  1. #1
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    Me and two other friends decided to go for a walk around the neighborhood (not a bad area) and decided to UOC. We have done a few walks like this and never been stopped. We usually go later on in the evening so not too many are around anyway.

    Last night we get about twenty minutes into our walk and see a car approaching. Next thing we know, there is a spot light in our faces and a door opens. We stop in our tracks and put our hands on our heads and away from our guns. Managed to not record this (of course) but it went well.

    First officer says something along the lines of "how's it goin?" I was in front so I answered. Said "Pretty good." He then asks if we have guns on us and I say yes. He tells us to put our hands up and turn around, this as two more cars approach.

    We comply and turn around. They ask what's going on and I say "Unloaded Open Carry." I was actually impressed that they knew what it was and didn't go through the whole you need a license deal, I didn't have to educate them on the subject in other words, kind of nice.

    They pull out our guns and do 12031 checks. Then came the illegal stuff, they illegally pulled out ID's, illegally searched us, and illegally ran the serial numbers of the guns. They returned the guns to us and told us to sit down on a fence that was behind us. They do pet checks on us and we come back clean.

    Then came the usual lecture from the first cop about how it is our right but they'd rather we don't and so on, asking if we know how stupid it is to do this and all, I just politely said nothing and listened to this nonsense. Of the five responding guys, three were pretty cool and seemed rather pro second amendment, and one officer plus the sergeant had the attitude that only they should have guns. We got the whole "we could be doing a lot right now but were stuck with you guys, I'm gonna be gettin' calls all f****** night, and it will be a pain in my d***, so don't do it on my shift." We headed home after that and loaded up on the property and carried loaded legally!

    Overall it did go well, the officers were fairly cordial in how they handled the situation even if a few illegal searches were made. I wa impressed that UOC has had this big an impact in CA, the memos and suchforth have made it to San Bernardino county. Oh and we actually had the whole department out there, only four officers plus the sergeant out here, and they were all with us, I did like that part.

  2. #2
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    it is quite a shame...
    that anyone would think that was a pretty good stop by the cops..
    put your hands up, serial number check, searched for ID, pet check!

    anything beyond a proper 12031E check is a violation of your rights, and its illegal!

    the only reason you think it did go over well is,, because
    they didnt actually point their guns at you!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

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  3. #3
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    True, but we were not falsely arrested, not handcuffed, treated like subjects but not broken down by it!!!

  4. #4
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    So let's recap...

    You were e-violated, and your other 4A rights were violated.

    You did not sterile carry, so now they know who you are and where you live, so if they find something like maybe a school zone you didn't know about, you're screwed.

    You were lectured about how you shouldn't exercise your liberties...because good and loyal SUBJECTS don't make waves.

    And you did not record the event, so itdidn't reallyhappen.

    "E-Violations are not a badge of honor, they are a scar of tyranny!!!" --Me
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

  5. #5
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    For the record, I agree with other posters on this thread. This was not a positive encounter. While you were set free with your firearms, the police detained you for longer than as required to conduct an (e) check, rifled through your personal belongings, pulled your ID, ran you firearms S/N and used their status as law enforcement to intimidate you into ceasing your self defense measures.

    All this, for no crime commited.

    Now is the time to PRA the event- you should review the call that initiated the stop, the reports produced by the officers involved and radio communications during the event.

    After that, you should file a complaint against the officers.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    I am ready to **** a brick right now. What was the reason you didn't have an active recording device on you? Why did you answer any questions? Seriously, this is not even close to being anything good.

    If you are going to walk the line, actually be prepared. The collective knowledge of just the FAQ page alone should have been a big indicatior.

  7. #7
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    I would do an Open Records Request and then file a complaint.

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    Always, not never, ALWAYS, every time, without fail, carry and use a audio and/or video recording device while UOC... Or, it never happened!!!

    Your iPhone, a audio recorder, a "Flip" size camera, etc.

    Brief lecture complete. Now, carry on.

    Livermoron


    "All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

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    Is this a joke? If that actually happened and I were you, I would be at the station doing a prar and then a complaint AFTER I had the prar documents. And I would be PISSED, super pissed, I'm not sure that I would have been able to not start yelling at the cops in that situation. How was that at all a good encounter? What would a bad encounter be?pretty much the only thing that didn't happen to you was getting arrested, or maybe shot, but you pretty much just got raped and you liked it.
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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    avdrummerboy wrote:
    True, but we were not falsely arrested, not handcuffed, treated like subjects but not broken down by it!!!
    ....NOT TREATED LIKE SUBJECTS, you say?

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    I was one of the three involved in this the other night and I must agree that there was a cocksure attitude that led to the sense of complacency which ended up with us unprepared for the events that transpired. The San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department Deputies violated our rights, overstepped their authority and were a tad rough. We were in a nice neighborhood, we complied completely with their reasonable requests and still had our rights violated. Hindsight being 20/20 as we walked away from the encounter we realized all the things we did wrong and all the things we could have done to check their jackbooted sense of superiority.

    A. Two of us had smartphones with video and audio recording capabilities, myself included which should have been activated or ready to activate as soon as we saw the spotliight.

    B. As soon as the Deputies started pulling things our of our pockets and searching us for weapons we should have asked them if they could articulate the reasonable suspicion for a Terry-Stop or the Probable Cause for a full search of our persons which we failed to do.

    C. We should have not answered any questions except identifying ourselves as legally in possession of the firearms we were carrying and of the age to do so in accordance with the law.

    My hope for this thread isn't to celebrate successful Open Carry but to serve as a warning for those others in California and elsewhere in these United States to remain constantly vigilant in effort to ensure the violation or your rights do not go unanswered. The first casual request for information at the Apple Valley station of San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department was not granted. I would like to know if anyone here has information or advice on how best to go about requisitioning the information, call logs, radio logs, etc relating to our detention.

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    GWbiker

    You misread what I wrote in accordance with me writing it awkwardly. I meant that we WERE indeed treated like slaves, subjects, but we will not be taken aback by it.

    As to attacking me for calling it a "good" (in a relative sense) encounter, I do judge this by the fact that I was not arrested, shot, or even placed in a patrol car.

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    avdrummerboy wrote:
    GWbiker

    You misread what I wrote in accordance with me writing it awkwardly. I meant that we WERE indeed treated like slaves, subjects, but we will not be taken aback by it.

    As to attacking me for calling it a "good" (in a relative sense) encounter, I do judge this by the fact that I was not arrested, shot, or even placed in a patrol car.
    youre missing the point. open carry is not just about having gun on your belt, its about standing up for your rights. im sorry, but you failed miserably at this.

    a great encounter is one that either doesnt happen, or one where a cop says "is that unloaded?", "yes", "ok, thanks have a nice day."
    a good encounter is where you get e-checked then the cop leaves
    a bad encounter is where your rights are violated beyond 12031(e)
    and if you are arrested, shot, or placed in a patrol car its time to lawyer up.

    i cant stress how much audio/video is a MUST. what if those prar documents youre looking for have false information in them? what if the DA reviews it and decides you need to go to jail? how will you defend your self? 2 UOCers word vs multiple cops word? who would win that?

    you (seemingly) did not strongly object to any searches, you GAVE them your ID, you didnt have audio going... i would say this was a good UOC encounter for the cops, but not you.

    what could can come from giving them your ID? you make the cop a little happier? thats about it... it can screw you in many ways, it does not help you in any way.


    dont take offense to any of this. i think its great that you are in trying to stand up for your rights, but you need to do some more research and know how to stand up for your rights. i hope you can take the harsher comments with a grain of salt and learn from them.
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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    I do not mind the criticism. Many mistakes were made on our part, as have been pointed out, and we were rather complacent in how we dealt with it, having done UOC a few times no issues thinking that we were free and clear, it did not get us far. In all, we have learned our lessons and when we do go UOC'ing again- and have no doubt in your mind we will- we know darn well what to do!

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    I'm not sure what we did would qualify as "giving" our id to the Deputies, they were illegally seized.

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    thedeadcat wrote:
    I'm not sure what we did would qualify as "giving" our id to the Deputies, they were illegally seized.
    my bad, I stand corrected. I thought I had read that you gave them to them after the echeck. I wouldn't recommend carrying an ID and a gun at the same time.
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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    Yes, ID's (wallets) were taken from us no questions asked.

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    dirtykoala wrote:
    thedeadcat wrote:
    I'm not sure what we did would qualify as "giving" our id to the Deputies, they were illegally seized.
    my bad, I stand corrected. I thought I had read that you gave them to them after the echeck. I wouldn't recommend carrying an ID and a gun at the same time.
    THat might be a good idea.

  20. #20
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    avdrummerboy wrote:
    Yes, ID's (wallets) were taken from us no questions asked.
    I have no idea how I would react if this happened to me but I believe at that moment you are supposed to say 'I do not consent to being searched or having my wallet seized'.

    However, without audio proving that would be tough. What is the CA law on recording? I know in WI I can record as long as I have permission of one of the parties (me).

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    Police officers have no expectation of privacy in the discharge of their duties, record away

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    LOL see previous post.

    edit out echo.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  23. #23
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    avdrummerboy wrote:
    Yes, ID's (wallets) were taken from us no questions asked.
    I think DK has the proper remedy for that. Sterile carry is something you have to make a conscious decision about, and we have been conditioned to have it with us at all times. I leavemy DLin my vehicle, because that is the only place I am required by statute toproduceit...
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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  24. #24
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Sons of Liberty's Avatar
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    You were molested and raped; from a rights perspective.

    Verbally and continuously object. If the LEO really were up on UOC and respected your rights, they would not have done the things they did. Bullies are quick to exploit a submissive/passive posture. Be prepared and stand up for your rights. If you don't, there is no one going to care what happens to you.

    Welcome to the wonderful world of bearing arms!
    Clinging to God & Guns: The Constitution Restoration Project

  25. #25
    Regular Member A ECNALG's Avatar
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    thedeadcat wrote:
    The first casual request for information at the Apple Valley station of San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department was not granted. I would like to know if anyone here has information or advice on how best to go about requisitioning the information, call logs, radio logs, etc relating to our detention.
    Good luck in getting ANY significant information through a California PRAR. Of course there is the avenue of filing with the court and seeking and in-camera (legal term)review of the recordsby a judge who would determine whether the agency is justified in its denial of release of records.........$ $ $ $ $

    Unless SBSD SOP differs significantly from LAPD-San Pedro, don't expect to obtain anything beyond a bare-bones, single page response to a PRAR, noting:


    Date and time of occurence;

    Location of occurrence;

    Date and time of report;

    Name and age of victim; (the reporting business)

    Factual circumstances of crime or incident; (don't expect anything more than something like: "Officersresponded tocall...Officers observed three individuals with holstered firearms")

    General description of injuries, property or weapons.
    For anything else, certainly in my and Chewy352's San Pedro experience, the agency willlikely claim"investigation!," and thus deny inspectionand/or release of all records.

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