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Thread: Badges - oh my

  1. #1
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    I know this subject has been beaten to death, but I was tossing the idea of badges around in my head. I'd like to discuss a few of those ideas and see if anyone sees logic in my thought.

    (I am not advocating anyone rush and buy a "steenkin badgers" and, no, I don't have one - geesh.)

    In most forums where I read posts about badges, I see the common retort: "Badges are for LEOs." But that statement isn't 100% accurate in any regard. Yes, police wear a badge. We all know this.

    However:

    1) Private Investigators
    2) Protection Specialists (a.k.a. "bodyguards")
    3) Bail Enforcement Agents (a.k.a. "bounty hunters")
    4) Security guards (armed or not)
    5) Armored car personnel (Brinks, Loomis, Wells Fargo, etc)
    6) Geek Squad
    7) Exterminators (i.e. pest/insect/rodent control)
    8) Strippers at a bachelor party "arresting" the groom-to-be

    The idea that a badge is only carried by "the law" is false. No one assumes that any of the above listed groups impersonate a law enforcement official. Geek Squad, for example, is a computer repair service and their uniforms (at first glance or two) can resemble a security guard or cop, but they don't get hassled over their badge.

    Perhaps it's because their badges don't say "Police" on them?

    Security guards wear a badge (and some are authorized to carry a gun). They aren't "cops". Their authority is only on the property to which they are guarding. (They can even carry handcuffs.) Their badges usually say "Security Officer".

    A bail enforcement agent wears a badge (and sometimes they carry guns). No one would argue that some of the characters they are chasing are dangerous, and some form of shiny ID would be helpful (if only to passersby). And they aren't impersonating an officer.

    Yet when a gun owner says "what about a badge?" people freak and tell them to go to the academy and earn a badge. "Don't do it, you'll be impersonating an officer." "Don't do it, you'll be a mall ninja."

    All the groups listed above wear a badge. Those among them who carry a gun aren't looked at sideways. People don't wonder, "Why is that person packing a gun?" Just as people don't wonder about police wearing a gun, security guards are not put under a microscope my Joe Q. Public and his family visiting the mall.

    I thought, "well, if I had a CHP badge on my belt next to my gun, maybe people will not be 'scared of the big bad gun '." If they think I'm a cop, that's their own problem - I've never asserted myself to be, nor portrayed myself as, a police officer. A CHP/CCW badge does not say POLICE and if I don't claim/assert/pretend/suggest that I am a cop, then I'm not impersonating anyone. Heck, if I had black pants and a black tie, and a white button down shirt, I'd look like a Geek Squad "agent" - I'd just have a different tool on my belt.

    A common reply is that "the badge symbolizes authority bestowed on the individual". Perhaps, but what authority does Geek Squad have? A security guard? A bounty hunter? Depending on your location, some of these professions aren't regulated at all. If anything, a law-abiding citizen carrying a gun and a badge, simply says, "Yes, I am allowed to have this firearm on me. Leave me alone already!"

    So what's the fuss?

    :shock:

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    thats a great idea

    put 2nd amendment on it

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    Best Buy's tech-help Geek Squad are letting their badges go to their head, says the Daily Record. New Jersey police arrested 25-year-old Jay Mora last week for impersonating a police officer and for sexual assault. Apparently, Mora was meeting an unidentified woman at a hotel to "engage in a sex-for-money transaction." Once in the room together, Mora identified himself as a police officer by using Geek Squad ID as proof.

    Police say that, believing his ruse, the woman agreed to participate in sexual acts in order to gain her freedom. Afterward, Mora allegedly refused to leave, so the woman managed to contact a relative who, in turn, alerted the real authorities. You know, the ones with badges that actually look authentic and don't have 'Geek Squad' emblazoned in orange and black.

    While Geek Squad does have a history of turning in pedophiles and other pornography perps, the crew has also been plagued by its share of deviant sexual scandals. Maybe the company should reconsider its use of terms like "Special Agent" and "Deputy Field Marshal." It seems Mora (if he truly was a Geek Squad officer) and other "agents" are getting carried away with delusions of law enforcement grandeur. [From: The DailyRecord.com, via TheConsumerist.com]


    Tags: best buy, BestBuy, crime, geek squad, GeekSquad, police, prostitution, top

    :what:

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    1) Private Investigators
    Often regulated by the state and issued licenses rather than badges most places.

    2) Protection Specialists (a.k.a. "bodyguards")
    Again, as regulated by most states as part of the security guard industry, but I don't recall seeingbadges on polilticians BG's or security people during the campaigns so far unless they are normal uniformed security

    3) Bail Enforcement Agents (a.k.a. "bounty hunters")
    Again a regulated industry and other than some sill TV shows and movies never seen these either.

    4) Security guards (armed or not)
    Regulated most places and part of the uniformed service butnever have seen onLP guys at stores unless they were off-dutyLEO's or sad-sackwannabees.

    5) Armored car personnel (Brinks, Loomis, Wells Fargo, etc)
    Regulated most places and part of the uniformed branding for marketing and identification.

    The rest are simple marketing ploys and gimmicks.

    6) Geek Squad
    7) Exterminators (i.e. pest/insect/rodent control)
    8) Strippers at a bachelor party "arresting" the groom-to-be


    Actually, CA has a law regarding vehicles which are deliberately made to look like police cars. Best Buy discovered this after receiving citations and having to negotiate awith the CA AG office as to their vehicle markings. It wouldn't surprise me to discover that law covers individuals a bit more stringently than most states as well.

    CA Penal Code, Section 538d...

    (2) Any person who willfully wears or uses any badge that falsely
    purports to be authorized for the use of one who by law is given the
    authority of a peace officer, or which so resembles the authorized
    badge of a peace officer as would deceive any ordinary reasonable
    person into believing that it is authorized for the use of one who by
    law is given the authority of a peace officer, for the purpose of
    fraudulently impersonating a peace officer, or of fraudulently
    inducing the belief that he or she is a peace officer, is guilty of a
    misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not to
    exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed two thousand dollars
    ($2,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.


    I would imagine many states have a similar law which makes this not only silly but subject to legal interpretation as well.

    Like many things, it's within your rights (unless prohibited by state law)to wear a badge but as someone else said you can get a trooper's hat with pink bunny ears which match your AK and wear that too.

    Most folks will probably just agree you're a flake if you do so.


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    Regular Member Walt_Kowalski's Avatar
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    So, by carrying a bage and your OC, you will have a lot of folks ASSUMING that you are an LEO, and thus missing the point of OCing all together.

    The point is to have more citizens OCing, so other citizens, see it, and accept it.


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    Actually, many plain clothes retail LP do have badges to prove who they are when arresting a thief.

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    What about wearing your ccw permit around your neck in a clear id holder

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    ecocks
    Like many things, it's within your rights (unless prohibited by state law)Â*to wear a badge but as someone else said you can get a trooper's hat with pink bunny ears which match your AK and wear that too.

    Most folks will probably just agree you're a flake if you do so.
    That is too funny! I just visualized a possible Reno 911 episode.

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    Walt_Kowalski wrote:
    So, by carrying a bage and your OC, you will have a lot of folks ASSUMING that you are an LEO, and thus missing the point of OCing all together.

    The point is to have more citizens OCing, so other citizens, see it, and accept it.

    Excellent point. I think that increasing acceptance and awareness is a much better policy than chotsky.

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    I NEVER wear my badge when OCing, in my personal opnion the badge makes you a target.
    Freedom isn't free, but this is America! We will find a way to outsource it and save some money - Jeremy

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    Maybe you could wear a tramp stamp instead, like this guy:

    [flash=320,256]http://www.youtube.com/v/8wkryBeRx8I&hl=en_US&fs=1&[/flash]

    Nobody will laugh at you for wearing that tat, or for carrying a CCW badge.

    Honest.

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Maybe you could wear a tramp stamp instead, like this guy:





    Nobody will laugh at you for wearing that tat, or for carrying a CCW badge.

    Honest.
    whats wrong with a guy having a tramp stamp? what if it says jesus

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    Then he's tramping for hay-suess I guess....

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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Actually, many plain clothes retail LP do have badges to prove who they are when arresting a thief.
    Wow, never seen them in any retail where I worked or shopped. Live and learn I guess.

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    ecocks wrote:
    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Actually, many plain clothes retail LP do have badges to prove who they are when arresting a thief.
    Wow, never seen them in any retail where I worked or shopped. Live and learn I guess.
    You generally won't see them unless you're being apprehended. They have them concealed so they can blend in as best as they can.

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    I'm talking about ones we worked with regularly, just never seen LP guys with badges except the folks who were moonlighting cops.

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    Inserting my opinion on this because out of the 3 or so forums I belong to this subject has been beaten so many times it just might decide to sue for assault and battery...

    If someone wants to wear a badge because they are OCing, let them go ahead but PLEASE try to stop it... If someone INTELLIGENT wants to wear a badge because they are OCing, promptly hit them in the face with a frying pan. A badge makes you more of a target than anything and can put you in a precarious position if a crime is committed in your presence because people might ASSUME you are a LEO. (ASSUME means ASS U ME YOU have been made an ass because they though you were LE and your not and THEY have been made an ass because they thought you were LE) More problems can stem from those damn things than ANY good it may bring. A badge screams target to some groups. If they are going to wear that badge they might as well make themselves a REAL target and wear this but make it for OC instead of CC...



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    whats with those uummm scarfs that are reflective

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    Thats a SASH to be precise

    That was posted on another forum I belong to when someone brought up the badges for OC or CC, ya know so the LEOs can tell the GOOD guys apart from the BAD guys . Do a google search for CCW sash and YES you can actually buy those things, unfortunately. Look at it this way, if the badge isnt visible enough, get one of these, you are GUARANTEED to be noticed...

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    1st. If someone wants to wear a badge.. sweet.. to each his own.

    2nd. If someone wants to wear a badge.. sweet.. to each his own.

    There is No stigma attached to a badge. Badge does not equal cop or authority. Jews wore the Star of David as a badge in Nazi Germany.. No authority there.

    Any argument against a badge might as well be an argument against steel toed boots or Addidas and Nikes. It's an article of clothing.. let it go.

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    Walt_Kowalski wrote:
    So, by carrying a bage and your OC, you will have a lot of folks ASSUMING that you are an LEO, and thus missing the point of OCing all together.

    The point is to have more citizens OCing, so other citizens, see it, and accept it.
    Walt's point here is spot on. And we're not talking about whether or not badges have any kind of technical legal force or authority but that they are perceived that way.

    The RKBA in any permutation is an individual right, tied to some degree of sovereignty of the individual, in the context of a free human being, or citizen.

    Badges to me represent authority, and I think they do to most people, regardless of whether or not they literally carry any authoritative weight.

    Also, I've seen those CWP badges in magazines - they are sold by that company that makes prop guns and the like. They are the nerdiest thing I have ever seen in a gun magazine without exception. If the presence of such a thing provokes an eyeroll from me, you can only imagine what it would do with the general public who didn't mistake it for a police badge and saw it for what it was.

    You're also likely to draw attention and be mistaken as a cop, which cannot be a good thing for your own safety.

    You have a First Amendment right to carry any kind of cheesy badge you want (and a right to be free from the prospect of me pushing you into a locker, smashing your glasses, and stealing your bike). But I really wish people wouldn't do that.

    Also those sashes are awful cute. Next time I want to look awful cute, maybe I'll wear one.

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    crisisweasel
    The RKBA in any permutation is an individual right, tied to some degree of sovereignty of the individual, in the context of a free human being, or citizen.
    But it's easier to carry a badge than the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

    Seriously, though, you've brought up a very critical point. And being armed, by means of our RKBA, prevents that sovereignty and freedom from being yanked away (whether by force or not) by the government.

    To suggest that the badge, and not the Constitution (by way of the 2A), indicates that one takes away the badge and the "right" to carry a gun goes with it.

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    steveinNEPA wrote:
    Thats a SASH to be precise

    That was posted on another forum I belong to when someone brought up the badges for OC or CC, ya know so the LEOs can tell the GOOD guys apart from the BAD guys . Do a google search for CCW sash and YES you can actually buy those things, unfortunately. Look at it this way, if the badge isnt visible enough, get one of these, you are GUARANTEED to be noticed...
    And when the cops respond, you'll still be treated as a bad guy...at least until they sort **** out.

    This thread is retarded...
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    You always have that 10%.......
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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