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Thread: BATFE

  1. #1
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    Do they just strictly enforce the laws or are they against people having guns?

    is their head guy from the brady bunch?

    do they have an opinion on open carry?


  2. #2
    Regular Member Old Grump's Avatar
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    erichonda30 wrote:
    Do they just strictly enforce the laws or are they against people having guns?

    is their head guy from the brady bunch?

    do they have an opinion on open carry?
    1. Yes

    2. Can't tell who the boss is, with their heads stuck up their nether regions they all look alike to me.

    3. Only they are professional enough to carry and use guns.
    Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, SAF and CCRKBA

  3. #3
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Actually, the answer to your first question is NO then YES.

    By"NO", I mean they will entrap people like they did with Randy Weaver.

    I would agree with the other 2 repies except to add to the reply for question #3, OPEN or CONCEALED.

    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    Where is randy weaver today is he allowed to own guns?

    seems like shooting the dog started the whole thing

    i have 3 dogs myself and they are like my kids if someone killed one of them it would be war



  5. #5
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Actually, what started the whole thing was the BATFE hounded Randy for about 2 monthsuntil he accepted $200 to saw off a shotgun to the "too short" length. He turned them down several times over this period.He was not working and that was a lot of money for him. Then he refused to go informant. Then they decided to show him who was in charge.

    All charges were dropped, so I assume he is not a convicted felon, but he is millions richer.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    i think i just read it was a 1/4" to short thats crazy

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    dbl

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    In the words of my grandfather - a retired ATF Agent and Marine:

    "I am not against citizens lawfully owning firearms. I am against felons owning firearms, and illegal smuggling and trading of firearms from one felon to another."

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    In the words of my grandfather - a retired ATF Agent and Marine:

    "I am not against citizens lawfully owning firearms. I am against felons owning firearms, and illegal smuggling and trading of firearms from one felon to another."
    Your grandfather was probably swimming against the current.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    rodbender wrote:
    Aaron1124 wrote:
    In the words of my grandfather - a retired ATF Agent and Marine:

    "I am not against citizens lawfully owning firearms. I am against felons owning firearms, and illegal smuggling and trading of firearms from one felon to another."
    Your grandfather was probably swimming against the current.
    Most likely. He has a lot of stories of arguments he has gotten in to with everyone he has worked with on the topic.

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    Anything from anyone within any governmental department, position, or agency should be held in question and viewed with caution and a healthy distrust if it is in any way in conflict with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, either overtly or covertly.

    This is your best guard against those who would willingly and deliberately work towards the loss of your individual liberties.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    I'll just say this. BATFE chose to put their national Ballistics Lab and their Research Lab in Rockville Maryland (where they also house their "gun fingerprint" database) and their Arson Research Center is in Beltsville MD.

    http://www.saf.org/USAtoday102799.html

    Of all the places in the country they could put these labs, they chose Maryland. I think that says volumes as to how the "higher ups" at BATFE feel about firearms ownership for law-abiding citizens.

    'nuf sed...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Dreamer wrote:
    I'll just say this. BATFE chose to put their national Ballistics Lab and their Research Lab in Rockville Maryland (where they also house their "gun fingerprint" database) and their Arson Research Center is in Beltsville MD.

    http://www.saf.org/USAtoday102799.html

    Of all the places in the country they could put these labs, they chose Maryland. I think that says volumes as to how the "higher ups" at BATFE feel about firearms ownership for law-abiding citizens.

    'nuf sed...
    Or it could have something to do with their headquarters being in DC.

    For your theory to hold water, they would not have put their National Tracing Center (NTC), and their "Brady Branch" (the people who do the NCIS check) in West Virginia where Open Carry is lawful (except for some grandfathered cities) and is a state which proudly wears a consistent "F" rating from the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, and has some of the more permissive gun ownership and transfer laws in the nation. No NICS check for any private firearm transfer, rifle or pistol.

    I find it quite ironic that the NTC is located here.

    For the OP:

    1) For the most part, at least the ATF people I've met/shot with are there just to aid in the enforcement of the laws that OUR representatives enacted. In fact I bought my Ruger 10/22 from a GS-13.

    2) Kenneth Melson, is the Director, and from what I can remember from watching the Brad Bunch when I was a youngster, he is not from the Brady Bunch.

    3) I know of 3 ATF people who regularly carry, sometimes open, sometimes concealed, sometimes "casual". From my talks with them, they really don't care one way or the other.

    Having said that, I do believe the very existence of the ATF and its mission(s) is a direct infringement on our Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms and the bureau should be eliminated, completely. Including the TFE parts.

    What I dislike is the continual bashing of an agency, that by an indifferent populace, has been allowed to exist and the broad brush technique used to paint all ATF (and in a larger sense all .gov) employees based on the actions of a few.

    Kind of like when the anti's trot out a school shooting and try to paint all gun owners with the same brush.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    You're right. We shouldn't be so hard on them...


    After all, "zey are just vollowink orders."
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Not saying I agree or disagree, but if the ATF didn't exist, which agency do you feel should be responsible for going after weapon smuggling by felons?

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    Interstate weapons smuggling would be investigated by the FBI, because interstate crimes have been under their jurisdiction since their creation.

    IF it were international gun smuggling, that would either fall under US Customs Service or the FBI, depending on:
    1) which way the guns were traveling (coming into or going out of the US),
    2)how they were being moved (using common carriers, freight companies, or private vehicles), and
    3) whether or not there was a concerted criminal enterprise to engage in this activity within the US that crossed state lines.

    Done and done. Easy answer.

    Next question?
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  17. #17
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    Dreamer wrote:
    Interstate weapons smuggling would be investigated by the FBI, because interstate crimes have been under their jurisdiction since their creation.

    IF it were international gun smuggling, that would either fall under US Customs Service or the FBI, depending on:
    1) which way the guns were traveling (coming into or going out of the US),
    2)how they were being moved (using common carriers, freight companies, or private vehicles), and
    3) whether or not there was a concerted criminal enterprise to engage in this activity within the US that crossed state lines.

    Done and done. Easy answer.

    Next question?
    None from me. Good answers though.

  18. #18
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Not saying I agree or disagree, but if the ATF didn't exist, which agency do you feel should be responsible for going after weapon smuggling by felons?

    Actually, this would fall under states jurisdiction or the feds could call up the militia. The Constitution does not give the feds authority to have a police force of any kind.

    It does give the feds power to enforce federal law. However, it also says that they can call up the militia to do so. This, because the framers did not want a standing army.

    Art. I, Sec. 8, par. 15: Congress shall have Power..........To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

    BTW; The framers were probably not concerned withtransfer of arms, any arms,either person to person, nation to nation, nation to person, or person to nation.. They were quite clear that the RKBA would not be infringed.

    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

  19. #19
    McX
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    every federal peson i have ever talked to always comes up with the same crap; government people deserve guns, citizens don't. haven't found an exception yet.

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    McX wrote:
    every federal peson i have ever talked to always comes up with the same crap; government people deserve guns, citizens don't. haven't found an exception yet.
    I haven't come across any with that opinion, and I know plenty, considering my grandfather is a retired ATF Agent and Marine.

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    Thoreau wrote:
    I'll take the Firearms, but you can have the alcohol and tobacco.

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    "Already a couple of the faithful have sent in checks for a foundation memorial to the innocents who perished at the hands of the ninja at Waco ... I have been criticized by referring to our federal masked men as 'ninja' ... Let us reflect upon the fact that a man who covers his face shows reason to be ashamed of what he is doing. A man who takes it upon himself to shed blood while concealing his identity is a revolting perversion of the warrior ethic. It has long been my conviction that a masked man with a gun is a target. I see no reason to change that view."


    ---Jeff cooper
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

  24. #24
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    zack991 wrote:


    "Already a couple of the faithful have sent in checks for a foundation memorial to the innocents who perished at the hands of the ninja at Waco ... I have been criticized by referring to our federal masked men as 'ninja' ... Let us reflect upon the fact that a man who covers his face shows reason to be ashamed of what he is doing. A man who takes it upon himself to shed blood while concealing his identity is a revolting perversion of the warrior ethic. It has long been my conviction that a masked man with a gun is a target. I see no reason to change that view."


    ---Jeff cooper
    i think all mexican feds cover their faces



  25. #25
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    Shallnotbeinfringed wrote:
    Dreamer wrote:
    I'll just say this. BATFE chose to put their national Ballistics Lab and their Research Lab in Rockville Maryland (where they also house their "gun fingerprint" database) and their Arson Research Center is in Beltsville MD.

    http://www.saf.org/USAtoday102799.html

    Of all the places in the country they could put these labs, they chose Maryland. I think that says volumes as to how the "higher ups" at BATFE feel about firearms ownership for law-abiding citizens.

    'nuf sed...
    Or it could have something to do with their headquarters being in DC.

    For your theory to hold water, they would not have put their National Tracing Center (NTC), and their "Brady Branch" (the people who do the NCIS check) in West Virginia where Open Carry is lawful (except for some grandfathered cities) and is a state which proudly wears a consistent "F" rating from the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, and has some of the more permissive gun ownership and transfer laws in the nation. No NICS check for any private firearm transfer, rifle or pistol.

    I find it quite ironic that the NTC is located here.

    For the OP:

    1) For the most part, at least the ATF people I've met/shot with are there just to aid in the enforcement of the laws that OUR representatives enacted. In fact I bought my Ruger 10/22 from a GS-13.

    2) Kenneth Melson, is the Director, and from what I can remember from watching the Brad Bunch when I was a youngster, he is not from the Brady Bunch.

    3) I know of 3 ATF people who regularly carry, sometimes open, sometimes concealed, sometimes "casual". From my talks with them, they really don't care one way or the other.

    Having said that, I do believe the very existence of the ATF and its mission(s) is a direct infringement on our Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms and the bureau should be eliminated, completely. Including the TFE parts.

    What I dislike is the continual bashing of an agency, that by an indifferent populace, has been allowed to exist and the broad brush technique used to paint all ATF (and in a larger sense all .gov) employees based on the actions of a few.

    Kind of like when the anti's trot out a school shooting and try to paint all gun owners with the same brush.
    Actually I thinkSen. "Sheets" Byrd had something to do with the FBI offices you mentioned being there.
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

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