• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

BATFE

erichonda30

Banned
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
434
Location
PAHRUMP, Nevada, USA
imported post

Do they just strictly enforce the laws or are they against people having guns?

is their head guy from the brady bunch?

do they have an opinion on open carry?
 

Old Grump

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Messages
387
Location
Blue River, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

erichonda30 wrote:
Do they just strictly enforce the laws or are they against people having guns?

is their head guy from the brady bunch?

do they have an opinion on open carry?
1. Yes

2. Can't tell who the boss is, with their heads stuck up their nether regions they all look alike to me.

3. Only they are professional enough to carry and use guns.
 

rodbender

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
2,519
Location
Navasota, Texas, USA
imported post

Actually, the answer to your first question is NO then YES.

By"NO", I mean they will entrap people like they did with Randy Weaver.

I would agree with the other 2 repies except to add to the reply for question #3, OPEN or CONCEALED.
 

erichonda30

Banned
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
434
Location
PAHRUMP, Nevada, USA
imported post

Where is randy weaver today is he allowed to own guns?

seems like shooting the dog started the whole thing

i have 3 dogs myself and they are like my kids if someone killed one of them it would be war
 

rodbender

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
2,519
Location
Navasota, Texas, USA
imported post

Actually, what started the whole thing was the BATFE hounded Randy for about 2 monthsuntil he accepted $200 to saw off a shotgun to the "too short" length. He turned them down several times over this period.He was not working and that was a lot of money for him. Then he refused to go informant. Then they decided to show him who was in charge.

All charges were dropped, so I assume he is not a convicted felon, but he is millions richer.
 

Aaron1124

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
2,044
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
imported post

In the words of my grandfather - a retired ATF Agent and Marine:

"I am not against citizens lawfully owning firearms. I am against felons owning firearms, and illegal smuggling and trading of firearms from one felon to another."
 

rodbender

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
2,519
Location
Navasota, Texas, USA
imported post

Aaron1124 wrote:
In the words of my grandfather - a retired ATF Agent and Marine:

"I am not against citizens lawfully owning firearms. I am against felons owning firearms, and illegal smuggling and trading of firearms from one felon to another."
Your grandfather was probably swimming against the current.
 

Aaron1124

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
2,044
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
imported post

rodbender wrote:
Aaron1124 wrote:
In the words of my grandfather - a retired ATF Agent and Marine:

"I am not against citizens lawfully owning firearms. I am against felons owning firearms, and illegal smuggling and trading of firearms from one felon to another."
Your grandfather was probably swimming against the current.
Most likely. He has a lot of stories of arguments he has gotten in to with everyone he has worked with on the topic.
 

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
imported post

Anything from anyone within any governmental department, position, or agency should be held in question and viewed with caution and a healthy distrust if it is in any way in conflict with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, either overtly or covertly.

This is your best guard against those who would willingly and deliberately work towards the loss of your individual liberties.
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
imported post

I'll just say this. BATFE chose to put their national Ballistics Lab and their Research Lab in Rockville Maryland (where they also house their "gun fingerprint" database) and their Arson Research Center is in Beltsville MD.

http://www.saf.org/USAtoday102799.html

Of all the places in the country they could put these labs, they chose Maryland. I think that says volumes as to how the "higher ups" at BATFE feel about firearms ownership for law-abiding citizens.

'nuf sed...
 

Shallnotbeinfringed

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
88
Location
Martinsburg, West Virginia, USA
imported post

Dreamer wrote:
I'll just say this. BATFE chose to put their national Ballistics Lab and their Research Lab in Rockville Maryland (where they also house their "gun fingerprint" database) and their Arson Research Center is in Beltsville MD.

http://www.saf.org/USAtoday102799.html

Of all the places in the country they could put these labs, they chose Maryland. I think that says volumes as to how the "higher ups" at BATFE feel about firearms ownership for law-abiding citizens.

'nuf sed...
Or it could have something to do with their headquarters being in DC.

For your theory to hold water, they would not have put their National Tracing Center (NTC), and their "Brady Branch" (the people who do the NCIS check) in West Virginia where Open Carry is lawful (except for some grandfathered cities) and is a state which proudly wears a consistent "F" rating from the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, and has some of the more permissive gun ownership and transfer laws in the nation. No NICS check for any private firearm transfer, rifle or pistol.

I find it quite ironic that the NTC is located here.

For the OP:

1) For the most part, at least the ATF people I've met/shot with are there just to aid in the enforcement of the laws that OUR representatives enacted. In fact I bought my Ruger 10/22 from a GS-13.

2) Kenneth Melson, is the Director, and from what I can remember from watching the Brad Bunch when I was a youngster, he is not from the Brady Bunch.

3) I know of 3 ATF people who regularly carry, sometimes open, sometimes concealed, sometimes "casual". From my talks with them, they really don't care one way or the other.

Having said that, I do believe the very existence of the ATF and its mission(s) is a direct infringement on our Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms and the bureau should be eliminated, completely. Including the TFE parts.

What I dislike is the continual bashing of an agency, that by an indifferent populace, has been allowed to exist and the broad brush technique used to paint all ATF (and in a larger sense all .gov) employees based on the actions of a few.

Kind of like when the anti's trot out a school shooting and try to paint all gun owners with the same brush.
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
imported post

You're right. We shouldn't be so hard on them...


After all, "zey are just vollowink orders."
 

Aaron1124

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
2,044
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
imported post

Not saying I agree or disagree, but if the ATF didn't exist, which agency do you feel should be responsible for going after weapon smuggling by felons?
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
imported post

Interstate weapons smuggling would be investigated by the FBI, because interstate crimes have been under their jurisdiction since their creation.

IF it were international gun smuggling, that would either fall under US Customs Service or the FBI, depending on:
1) which way the guns were traveling (coming into or going out of the US),
2)how they were being moved (using common carriers, freight companies, or private vehicles), and
3) whether or not there was a concerted criminal enterprise to engage in this activity within the US that crossed state lines.

Done and done. Easy answer.

Next question?
 

Aaron1124

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
2,044
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
imported post

Dreamer wrote:
Interstate weapons smuggling would be investigated by the FBI, because interstate crimes have been under their jurisdiction since their creation.

IF it were international gun smuggling, that would either fall under US Customs Service or the FBI, depending on:
1) which way the guns were traveling (coming into or going out of the US),
2)how they were being moved (using common carriers, freight companies, or private vehicles), and
3) whether or not there was a concerted criminal enterprise to engage in this activity within the US that crossed state lines.

Done and done. Easy answer.

Next question?
None from me. Good answers though.
 

rodbender

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
2,519
Location
Navasota, Texas, USA
imported post

Aaron1124 wrote:
Not saying I agree or disagree, but if the ATF didn't exist, which agency do you feel should be responsible for going after weapon smuggling by felons?


Actually, this would fall under states jurisdiction or the feds could call up the militia. The Constitution does not give the feds authority to have a police force of any kind.

It does give the feds power to enforce federal law. However, it also says that they can call up the militia to do so. This, because the framers did not want a standing army.

Art. I, Sec. 8, par. 15: Congress shall have Power..........To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

BTW; The framers were probably not concerned withtransfer of arms, any arms,either person to person, nation to nation, nation to person, or person to nation.. They were quite clear that the RKBA would not be infringed.
 
M

McX

Guest
imported post

every federal peson i have ever talked to always comes up with the same crap; government people deserve guns, citizens don't. haven't found an exception yet.
 

Aaron1124

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
2,044
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
imported post

McX wrote:
every federal peson i have ever talked to always comes up with the same crap; government people deserve guns, citizens don't. haven't found an exception yet.
I haven't come across any with that opinion, and I know plenty, considering my grandfather is a retired ATF Agent and Marine.
 
Top