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Thread: OCer robbed at gun point ... did OC make him a target?

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    This was a topic of discussion awhile back ... can OC make one a target? Apparently so:

    http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/95999354.html

    Of course, this one incident has to be balanced against all of the criminal acts that OC has deterred ... the difficulty, of course, is that it's next to impossible to measure those.


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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    It was only a matter of time until it actually happened. I'll hold any judgment unless further details are available.
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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Not enough details... however just BC you OC does not mean you can go out without situational awareness...
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Does this smell like a ******** way to get concealed carry legalized in Wisconsin to anyone else?

    -Richard-

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    Michigander wrote:
    It was only a matter of time until it actually happened. I'll hold any judgment unless further details are available.
    Agreed. The more people who OC only increases the odds. Not gonna change my opinion of OC.

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    Regular Member CharleyMarbles's Avatar
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    autosurgeon wrote:
    Not enough details... however just BC you OC does not mean you can go out without situational awareness...
    Couldn't agree more!!! Some people get the gun straped on and think they are automaticly immune to the Bad guys. This just goes to prove the fact that the gun is a TOOL and without proper training it is not a very effective tool
    America Home of the Free BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE ! ! ! !

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    But it wasn't scary for at least one person who robbed the "guy with the gun" gunpoint. Police say the suspect struggled with the holster so the victim helped him get his own gun and the criminal now at two guns.

    Nice proofing from the news station! Man what a bad situation all around.
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    The MI Self Defense Act PA 309 of 7.18.2006 says that if you feel imminent harm may come to you or others, you do not have to retreat and that you can use deadly force.

    A little bit of training sure could have gone a long long way.

    Go shoot that gun man! Get used to that loud popping sound! It's great for deterring BG's. I'll bet the BG didn't even see his piece 'till that yuppies hands were up.

    meeooooow!

    I wish that BG would try to rob me!!!!!!!!!

    Peace be with you and be with your piece!..........................or without it hehe
    Peace be with you and always be with your piece!

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    CrimDoc wrote:
    This was a topic of discussion awhile back ... can OC make one a target? Apparently so . . .
    There's no indication that the bad guy in this instance targeted thevictim because hewasarmed. The only thing known at this time is the victim was found to be armed during the course of the robbery. Therefore, it is premature tospeculate that "apparently" OC made him a target.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
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    DanM wrote:
    ..... The only thing known at this time is the BG doesn't know how to unlock a Serpa holster.
    fyp :P
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    .
    Last edited by T Vance; 09-18-2010 at 11:34 PM.

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    Fair enough ... I suppose ... there are plenty of stupid criminals who "leap before they look".

    DanM wrote:
    CrimDoc wrote:
    This was a topic of discussion awhile back ... can OC make one a target? Apparently so . . .
    There's no indication that the bad guy in this instance targeted thevictim because hewasarmed. The only thing known at this time is the victim was found to be armed during the course of the robbery. Therefore, it is premature tospeculate that "apparently" OC made him a target.

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    Regular Member LaVere's Avatar
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    I read and reread the story. No where did it say the gun was taken. We maybe can guess it was. Poor writing I would say.

    When I open carry. Just for my conveince. It is warm I don't want to add another layer of clothes. And I don't want to wear my shirt outside my pants. That gun is to protect me. Also I have other things to protect my gun. "Dont ask don't tell"

    To steal an old phrase.

    Is (S)he or Isn't (S)he only his only his gunstore knows forsure.
    The use of force is a last resort. One aspect of violence is that it is unpredictable. Although your initial intention may be to use limited force, once you have engaged in violence the consequences are unpredictable. Violence always brings about unexpected results and almost always provokes retaliation.

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    Regular Member Michigun's Avatar
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    OCer robbed at gun point
    Versus how many CC'ers get robbed at gunpoint?

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Michigun wrote:
    OCer robbed at gun point
    Versus how many CC'ers get robbed at gunpoint?
    hmmm, very good point
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Regular Member kryptonian's Avatar
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    trying to imagine how it even happened. how unaware are you? brings up questions - where was he? multiple assailants? day or night? just from the pic i saw he didn't appear to be in premium physical shape (little overweight). not that i'm bagging on a fellow OCer but part of the responsibility is having more than a normal awareness of your surroundings and goalee away any attempts to lose your weapon. the usual arms length rule would apply. came from behind? any other people around? usually not. still had his pistol for the pic so assuming it wasn't taken. maybe it's just me but that how my mind works.

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    smellslikemichigan wrote:
    Michigun wrote:
    OCer robbed at gun point
    Versus how many CC'ers get robbed at gunpoint?
    hmmm, very good point
    Exxzzzactly

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    Regular Member SlowDog's Avatar
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    I would for one say that wasn't him in the pic still with gun. Also, I used to run Milwaukee every day for a year or so and he was in a really bad area. I would leave there late at night and actually saw two different people shot laying out on sidewalk bleeding with people just walking by. One guy was sitting against front of convenience store bleeding pretty bad callin 911 and I got the hell outta there quick. I just love going to those neighborhoods...NOT!!
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    Regular Member The Expert's Avatar
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    SlowDog wrote:
    I would for one say that wasn't him in the pic still with gun. Also, I used to run Milwaukee every day for a year or so and he was in a really bad area. I would leave there late at night and actually saw two different people shot laying out on sidewalk bleeding with people just walking by. One guy was sitting against front of convenience store bleeding pretty bad callin 911 and I got the hell outta there quick. I just love going to those neighborhoods...NOT!!
    That's a freakin horrible story you tell. Kinda reminds me of that one recently where the homeless guy got stabbed and bled out after rescuing a woman who was being assaulted.

    Here's the link to that one: http://homelessness.change.org/blog/...leeds_to_death
    I always open carry one of my Kimber 1911 pistols everywhere I go. Usually in a paddle holster. Nothing fancy, but it works for me.

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    I OC and CC when it is conveniant for me.

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    i personally recamend that everyone go to front sight. they in my opinion offer the best priced courses, and the instructors know what they are doing
    Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.
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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Ok, here's my .02 worth. Either, the guy was walking around in condition white, not paying attention. Or, it's a BS story.

    That's it, plain and simple.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    If you aren't surrounded by a lot of seemingly law abiding people who would probably be willing to testify truthfully, and instead you're in a secluded area, or perhaps if you're in a racist and perhaps or perhaps not ghetto area and you aren't the right "race" for the opinions of many locals, you should have a comfort zone of 15 or maybe 20 feet where anyone even remotely questionable within that zone puts you on high alert. Either that or conceal, and preferably still do the comfort zone thing.

    Again, I won't comment on what may have happened here. But I do think it's important to mention that as OCers, we have an obligation to put our lives in potentially added danger if someone tries to rob us for our gun or guns, because we need to do everything we can to stop such a thing. One of the worst things we could allow to happen is to turn over a gun to a killer. We have a responsibility to stop that, even if it means a greater risk of death to us, so that we don't by default end up putting anyone else at risk.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Nothing I read in the OP indicates what was stolen from him, if this even occurred - zip, nada, nothing.

    IMHO the report/cite is worthless until confirmed.

    http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/95999354.html

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Nothing I read in the OP indicates what was stolen from him, if this even occurred - zip, nada, nothing.

    IMHO the report/cite is worthless until confirmed.

    http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/95999354.html

    ********** Yata hey
    I agree.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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