• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

courthouse procedure

oneeyeross

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Messages
500
Location
Winlock, , USA
imported post

You know, I want to get one of those cowboy rigs so bad...just way down the list after the 1911, P83, P64, Pa63, 2" .38 S&W....

The other thought is to get a conversion cylinder for my .36 Navy....the balance on the Navy is just so nice.
 

jeeper1

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
692
Location
USA
imported post

The other thought is to get a conversion cylinder for my .36 Navy....the balance on the Navy is just so nice.
________________________________
I just checked the price on that and they are a bit PRICEY.
 

Bill Starks

State Researcher
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
4,304
Location
Nortonville, KY, USA
imported post

Marys Pistols has a western rig for a 1911, however its a bit small for me.


Then there is this rig....
anicesaddle.jpg
 

oneeyeross

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Messages
500
Location
Winlock, , USA
imported post

yes, the cylinder is a bit pricey, but it's better than buying the whole pistol all over again, since I already have the Navy.

Buffalo Arms company has then for $225 - $289, depending on which brand you go with.

Of course, a Colt single action army (Cimarron brand) only runs $433....
 

PoppaGary

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2007
Messages
119
Location
Vancouver, Washington, USA
imported post

Aaron1124 wrote:
daddy4count wrote:
All courts short of the Washington State Supreme court MUST provide either a lock box
I have heard this before, and it makes perfect sense to me... but I've never seen an actual statute or law requiring it...

anybody know the RCW ?
I am assuming the entire Washington State Supreme Court is used for court proceedings. I have not found an RCW that singled out the Washington State Supreme Court. Although, I did receive an email from Justice Alexander of Washington State Supreme Court and from a member of the Washington Legislature.

"Dear Mr. Braun:

In response to your e-mail message I can indicate that we do not currently maintain a lockbox for weapons here at the Temple of Justice. We have declined to provide a lock box for the following reasons:

(1) This building is entirely a court facility and, therefore, pursuant to RCW 9.41.300(b) no one should be entering the building with a weapon.
(2) The local legislative authority has not provided the court with a lock box.
(3) The court’s receptionists are not law enforcement officers and, thus, would be uncomfortable handling weapons handed over to them by visitors to the building.

Chief Justice Gerry Alexander
WA State Supreme Court"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[font="Arial, sans-serif"]"Dear Aaron, Thank you for your inquiry. In response to your email, Rep. Upthegrove asked me to work with policy staff of the House Judiciary Committee to answer your question. It appears that the lock box requirement does not apply to the Supreme Court. The law is silent on courts that are not governed by a "local legislative authority." It would apply to counties (superior and district courts) and cities (municipal courts). The law does not distinguish between the Supreme Court and other locations "used in connection with court proceedings." Therefore, it would still be illegal to bring a weapon to the Supreme Court. I hope this is the information you need. Please don't hesitate to contact us if we can be of further assistance. Sincerely, _________________________________________ Rachel Smith Legislative Assistant to Rep. Dave Upthegrove"


[font="Arial, sans-serif"]Then, I also received the following email:
[/font]
[/font]

"The WA Supreme Court is not exempt from RCW 9.41.300 and there is a WAC, WAC 236-12-470 that prohibits a person from carrying a firearm on the capitol grounds or into any building located on the capitol grounds, including the WA Supreme Court.

As we discussed, the language of RCW 9.41.300 provides that a person visiting a court with a concealed pistol license shall be provided with a place to store his or her weapon or the court shall designate a person with whom the person can safely leave his or her weapon. I was hoping to provide the constituent with the information regarding with whom he could leave his weapon when visiting the WA Supreme Court. Unfortunately, I was not able to get this information. The WSP has indicated that a person visiting the WA Supreme Court should leave his or her firearm locked in his or her car.

Below is the text of the WAC I mentioned prohibiting weapons on campus.
_____________________________________________

WAC 236-12-470 Prohibiting access to state capitol buildings and grounds while armed with dangerous weapons or with devices used to disrupt state business.(1) No person shall carry any firearm or other dangerous weapon as described in chapter 9.41 RCW on the state capitol grounds or in any building on the state capitol grounds: Provided, That this regulation shall not apply to duly authorized federal, state, and local law enforcement officers or to any federal, state, and local government employee authorized to carry firearms in the course of their public employment; and: Provided, That a person may carry a firearm in accordance with chapter 9.41 RCW."

So....back on topic (despite the neat holsters and pics!)...it sounds like the assistant to Rep Dave Upthegrove andthe Honorable Chief Justice Gerry Alexander both"mis-spoke" whensaying the WA Supreme Court is pretty much exempt from the laws? The main reason to provide lock boxes is the fact that guns ARE prohibited in the Court!

And wouldn't the "local legislative authority" for the Supreme Court be the WA Legislature and the WSP? Doesn't some "body or bodies" protect the Supremes, set the rules, finance the building and maintenance, etc?

If the laws are so confusing that even a member of the Supreme Court can't evenunderstand them as others do, but I guess that is why the exist.

Gary
 

w07rolla

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
157
Location
Cheney/Camas, Washington, USA
imported post

Question, do you have to have a CPL to check firearms at the door of a courthouse (or other building with lock box)? They always ask me for it, and I always provide it, so I wanted to know if it is necessary. They must not require it because as we know, you dont need a CPL to OC.

Josh
 

Aaron1124

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
2,044
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
imported post

PoppaGary wrote:
Aaron1124 wrote:
daddy4count wrote:
All courts short of the Washington State Supreme court MUST provide either a lock box
I have heard this before, and it makes perfect sense to me... but I've never seen an actual statute or law requiring it...

anybody know the RCW ?
I am assuming the entire Washington State Supreme Court is used for court proceedings. I have not found an RCW that singled out the Washington State Supreme Court. Although, I did receive an email from Justice Alexander of Washington State Supreme Court and from a member of the Washington Legislature.

"Dear Mr. Braun:

In response to your e-mail message I can indicate that we do not currently maintain a lockbox for weapons here at the Temple of Justice. We have declined to provide a lock box for the following reasons:

(1) This building is entirely a court facility and, therefore, pursuant to RCW 9.41.300(b) no one should be entering the building with a weapon.
(2) The local legislative authority has not provided the court with a lock box.
(3) The court’s receptionists are not law enforcement officers and, thus, would be uncomfortable handling weapons handed over to them by visitors to the building.

Chief Justice Gerry Alexander
WA State Supreme Court"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[font="Arial, sans-serif"]"Dear Aaron, Thank you for your inquiry. In response to your email, Rep. Upthegrove asked me to work with policy staff of the House Judiciary Committee to answer your question. It appears that the lock box requirement does not apply to the Supreme Court. The law is silent on courts that are not governed by a "local legislative authority." It would apply to counties (superior and district courts) and cities (municipal courts). The law does not distinguish between the Supreme Court and other locations "used in connection with court proceedings." Therefore, it would still be illegal to bring a weapon to the Supreme Court. I hope this is the information you need. Please don't hesitate to contact us if we can be of further assistance. Sincerely, _________________________________________ Rachel Smith Legislative Assistant to Rep. Dave Upthegrove"


[font="Arial, sans-serif"]Then, I also received the following email:
[/font]
[/font]

"The WA Supreme Court is not exempt from RCW 9.41.300 and there is a WAC, WAC 236-12-470 that prohibits a person from carrying a firearm on the capitol grounds or into any building located on the capitol grounds, including the WA Supreme Court.

As we discussed, the language of RCW 9.41.300 provides that a person visiting a court with a concealed pistol license shall be provided with a place to store his or her weapon or the court shall designate a person with whom the person can safely leave his or her weapon. I was hoping to provide the constituent with the information regarding with whom he could leave his weapon when visiting the WA Supreme Court. Unfortunately, I was not able to get this information. The WSP has indicated that a person visiting the WA Supreme Court should leave his or her firearm locked in his or her car.

Below is the text of the WAC I mentioned prohibiting weapons on campus.
_____________________________________________

WAC 236-12-470 Prohibiting access to state capitol buildings and grounds while armed with dangerous weapons or with devices used to disrupt state business.(1) No person shall carry any firearm or other dangerous weapon as described in chapter 9.41 RCW on the state capitol grounds or in any building on the state capitol grounds: Provided, That this regulation shall not apply to duly authorized federal, state, and local law enforcement officers or to any federal, state, and local government employee authorized to carry firearms in the course of their public employment; and: Provided, That a person may carry a firearm in accordance with chapter 9.41 RCW."

So....back on topic (despite the neat holsters and pics!)...it sounds like the assistant to Rep Dave Upthegrove andthe Honorable Chief Justice Gerry Alexander both"mis-spoke" whensaying the WA Supreme Court is pretty much exempt from the laws? The main reason to provide lock boxes is the fact that guns ARE prohibited in the Court!

And wouldn't the "local legislative authority" for the Supreme Court be the WA Legislature and the WSP? Doesn't some "body or bodies" protect the Supremes, set the rules, finance the building and maintenance, etc?

If the laws are so confusing that even a member of the Supreme Court can't evenunderstand them as others do, but I guess that is why the exist.

Gary
It is to my understanding that the entire court facility at Washington State Supreme Court may be used for court hearings? I've never been there, so I can only speculate. You're correct - the legislative authority for Washington Supreme Court IS the WA Legislature, and the WSP IS the Executive Arm for the Washington Supreme Court.
 

Jayd1981

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
387
Location
Richland, Washington, USA
imported post

w07rolla wrote:
Question, do you have to have a CPL to check firearms at the door of a courthouse (or other building with lock box)? They always ask me for it, and I always provide it, so I wanted to know if it is necessary. They must not require it because as we know, you dont need a CPL to OC.

Josh
There is nothing in the RCW that says you need a CPL to check a firearm. So I would believe that means they SHOULD check your pistol without needing to see your CPL. However I remember reading a few threads and seeing a couple youtube videos of people being refused entrance to the building because they would not show the officers their CPL or ID (again not required by RCW).
 

Aaron1124

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
2,044
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
imported post

Jayd1981 wrote:
w07rolla wrote:
Question, do you have to have a CPL to check firearms at the door of a courthouse (or other building with lock box)? They always ask me for it, and I always provide it, so I wanted to know if it is necessary. They must not require it because as we know, you dont need a CPL to OC.

Josh
There is nothing in the RCW that says you need a CPL to check a firearm. So I would believe that means they SHOULD check your pistol without needing to see your CPL. However I remember reading a few threads and seeing a couple youtube videos of people being refused entrance to the building because they would not show the officers their CPL or ID (again not required by RCW).
Does the law specifically explain what "When required" means?
 

Jayd1981

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
387
Location
Richland, Washington, USA
imported post

[align=left]I assume you mean "When required" to have a CPL.

According to the RCW, you only need a CPL when concealing a firearm outside of your home or fixed place of business. The only other mention I see is that if your in a vehicle you must have your CPL to carry loaded.[/align]
RCW 9.41.50 Carrying Firearms

[/b](1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.
 

Aaron1124

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
2,044
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
imported post

Jayd1981 wrote: [align=left]
I assume you mean "When required" to have a CPL.

According to the RCW, you only need a CPL when concealing a firearm outside of your home or fixed place of business. The only other mention I see is that if your in a vehicle you must have your CPL to carry loaded.
[/align]
RCW 9.41.50 Carrying Firearms

(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.
I meant "if required" to show it to a law enforcement officer.

"shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so"

Does it explain when it is required by law to display it to someone?
 

Jayd1981

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
387
Location
Richland, Washington, USA
imported post

I would take it to mean if its required by law to have it on your person (concealed carry or loaded in a vehicle) then you're required by law to present it to the authorities when asked. Otherwise if a CPL is not needed, then your should be under no duty to present it.
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
imported post

well, I am sitting in the tacoma council meeting and checked my firearm in with a deputy. He asked for my dl and cpl and I complied. I ask him what would happen if I didn't have my cpl and he replied he would turn me away. I have it recorded and will be following up with officials.
 

devildoc5

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
791
Location
Somewhere over run with mud(s)
imported post

so wait a minute here...let me see if i understand this correctly.

The Deputy told you that if you are LEGALLY carrying a firearm in the open but did not have your CPL he would turn you away?

Just wanted to clarify that that is what was said.
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
imported post

devildoc5 wrote:
so wait a minute here...let me see if i understand this correctly.

The Deputy told you that if you are LEGALLY carrying a firearm in the open but did not have your CPL he would turn you away?

Just wanted to clarify that that is what was said.

Yes, that is correct.

I will be working on changing that. I will also be working on changing how they hand you back your weapon. Unloaded, all rounds removed from the magazine, in a brown paper bag.
 

devildoc5

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
791
Location
Somewhere over run with mud(s)
imported post

aww how nice of them to make you defenseless, especially since you cant manipulate the weapon in the open without risking being charged with brandishing...

Sounds like maybe I need to go get a carry piece and head over there for some sort of official type business.

Especially since I am not ellibible for a CPl for another month and a half (residency requirements and such)
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
imported post

devildoc5 wrote:
aww how nice of them to make you defenseless, especially since you cant manipulate the weapon in the open without risking being charged with brandishing...

Sounds like maybe I need to go get a carry piece and head over there for some sort of official type business.

Especially since I am not ellibible for a CPl for another month and a half (residency requirements and such)

Correct.

This time I asked if I had taken the bus and what he would do to 'escort' me to my vehicle. He said that was a valid point and would find some place discreet for me to reload/holster.

devildoc, I have a new video recorder coming tomorrow. When you need to go to the courthouse for your CPL or before, let me know and we can record the encounter.
 

Aaron1124

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
2,044
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
imported post

When I checked my weapon at the King County Courthouse, they had me place it in a lock box with another weapon. They didn't write down a specific location, or give me a key to the box. The same key opened the box, which gained access to the entire box. If they weren't paying attention, the other guy who had checked his firearm could have easily grabbed mine by mistake.
 

devildoc5

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
791
Location
Somewhere over run with mud(s)
imported post

gogodawgs wrote:
devildoc5 wrote:
aww how nice of them to make you defenseless, especially since you cant manipulate the weapon in the open without risking being charged with brandishing...

Sounds like maybe I need to go get a carry piece and head over there for some sort of official type business.

Especially since I am not ellibible for a CPl for another month and a half (residency requirements and such)

Correct.

This time I asked if I had taken the bus and what he would do to 'escort' me to my vehicle. He said that was a valid point and would find some place discreet for me to reload/holster.

devildoc, I have a new video recorder coming tomorrow. When you need to go to the courthouse for your CPL or before, let me know and we can record the encounter.

Will do, it wont be till I establish residency though so about another month and a half...
 
Top