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Thread: Asked to Disarm at Walmart

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    Regular Member Nikki_Black's Avatar
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    Hey guys, I was in Baker a couple of days ago; buying some movies with my grandma and minding my own business. I guythat wasn't ina walmart uniform of any sort walks up to me and asks me if I am an LEO. I told him that I was not. He told me that I would have to bring my gun out to my car because he had gotten some complaints from other customers. I told him what the walmart policy is pertaining to Open Carry. I was told that I was in error and that only LEO could carry in the store. I asked to speak with the manager; who took about 15 minutes to come see me. I told him about the situation, and about Walmart's OC policy. He said that he knew the policy, but since they had gotten complaints; they could tell me to disarm. I said alright. I told my grandma I was going over to the Gamestop across the parking lot and hung out there until my grandma was done shopping.



    What do you guys make of this?

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    I have noticed this in a few recent treads (today it's KS, MN, and LA; last week it was OH and OR) that this is becoming common practice at the Walmart stores nation wide. Although, even with the "national policy" they claim to follow, there is always the overriding "private property" policy that they can refuse service to anyone at anytime or ask you to leave (or disarm = even worse IMHO).

    Maybe we (OCDO nation-wide) should press Walmart corporate to issue a memo to all their store directors. This might stop a store manager with a discussion with the complaintant rather than seeking out the law abiding citizen in his store. Meaning that, the store manager would tell the complaining sheeple, that "that person over there is a law abiding, and not breaking any of our policies," thusly ending the situation at that point.

    Not that this will help the sheeple "feel" any better about our rights. It will however add to the public awareness factor. This is also how I feel E-911 dispatch should handle MWAG calls, IMHO.... but they must "investigate all calls", right!?!? The one call they don't show up for could be the next Luby's.


    Our other choices are not much better (ie. boycotts or 2A invasions), as Walmart is in all 50 states and so large that neither will probably change anything. The only other thing I can thing of, is to comply at that time, and return to business as usual the next day (ie. leave if asked to leave, but return to that store to shop again another day). Eventually, the OC movement will gain enough steam, awareness, and positive recognition that the sheeple may see it as commonplace.


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    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    As long as Walmart "owns" the property, it falls under it's coorporate code, which is to follow State and Local laws.

    Yes a manager can ask you to leave, and you should, but you are NOT REQUIRED TO DO SO!

    "PEOPLE ARE COMPLANING", then complain that everyone in the store wearing a piece of clothing that is RED...should leave also, becuse it offends me, I am suretheyare communist!! I saw aperson with a mustache and I think he supports HITLER, would you please askhim (or her LOL)to leave!!

    Point is, if it is not against the law, then it is DISCRIMINATION.....plain and simple.

    Z






    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

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    Regular Member 4angrybadgers's Avatar
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    zekester wrote:
    As long as Walmart "owns" the property, it falls under it's coorporate code, which is to follow State and Local laws.

    Yes a manager can ask you to leave, and you should, but you are NOT REQUIRED TO DO SO!
    Good luck with that, I suspect you'll end up in handcuffs facing a trespassing charge. Generally speaking, state/local laws allow a private property owner or an "agent" (or a similar term) to ask you to leave the property, so yes, they ARE "following state and local laws". Like it or not, the manager calls the shots at the store as a representative of the company.

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    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    4angrybadgers wrote:
    zekester wrote:
    As long as Walmart "owns" the property, it falls under it's coorporate code, which is to follow State and Local laws.

    Yes a manager can ask you to leave, and you should, but you are NOT REQUIRED TO DO SO!
    Good luck with that, I suspect you'll end up in handcuffs facing a trespassing charge. Generally speaking, state/local laws allow a private property owner or an "agent" (or a similar term) to ask you to leave the property, so yes, they ARE "following state and local laws". Like it or not, the manager calls the shots at the store as a representative of the company.
    You are correct, if a report was filed with the LEO, then you are subject to a trespassing charge, but the fact remains, policy is what it is. The "Manager" does NOT have the authority to overide company poilcy unless a sitituation arises that endangers the customers, a mere complaint, does not constitute this.
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

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    zekester wrote:
    ....Point is, if it is not against the law, then it is DISCRIMINATION.....plain and simple.
    Although I agree with you.. unfortunately the law does not view gun owners as a protected group like race/religion etc..

    -Adam

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    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    I stand corrected.

    I guess I was stating that an "private" owned company has the right to tell you to leave and you would be suspect to a trespassing charge..

    Walmart had been beat to death on this issue, why it is still a problem is beyond me.

    I guess they just want us to go away!!!

    Fight the fight....carry responsiblity!!
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

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    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    Kriegsammler wrote:
    zekester wrote:
    ....Point is, if it is not against the law, then it is DISCRIMINATION.....plain and simple.
    Although I agree with you.. unfortunately the law does not view gun owners as a protected group like race/religion etc..

    -Adam
    True again.....time for this to change also!!
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

  9. #9
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    AMEN


    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

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    DATE: Friday, April 16,1999 2:13 PM

    Subject: RE: Firearms

    Thank you for contacting Wal-Mart regarding our concealed handgun policy. Wal-Mart was founded by Sam Walton on three basic principles. Strive for Excellence, Service to our Customers, and Respect for the Individual. It is that respect for the individual that led us to create the current policy pertaining to concealed handguns.

    The following is our policy......If a Wal-Mart customer has been awarded a concealed handgun license by the state government, Wal-Mart will follow the direction of the state. However, if at anytime while on Wal-Mart property, that customer's concealed weapon becomes visible to Wal-Mart associates or customers, Wal-Mart reserves the right to ask the customer to either reposition the weapon so that it will not be visible, to remove the weapon completely or to leave Wal-Mart property, With the exception of law enforcement personnel, Wal-Mart does not allow any exposed weapons to be worn or carried in public view on Wal-Mart property or in Wal-Mart stores. Customers other than law enforcement personnel wearing or carrying a weapon in an exposed manner will be asked to leave the property immediately.

    We appreciate your concern and trust that this message has addressed your concerns regarding this issue.

    Thank you,

    Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.

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    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    55bowtie wrote:
    DATE: Friday, April 16,1999 2:13 PM

    Subject: RE: Firearms

    Thank you for contacting Wal-Mart regarding our concealed handgun policy. Wal-Mart was founded by Sam Walton on three basic principles. Strive for Excellence, Service to our Customers, and Respect for the Individual. It is that respect for the individual that led us to create the current policy pertaining to concealed handguns.

    The following is our policy......If a Wal-Mart customer has been awarded a concealed handgun license by the state government, Wal-Mart will follow the direction of the state. However, if at anytime while on Wal-Mart property, that customer's concealed weapon becomes visible to Wal-Mart associates or customers, Wal-Mart reserves the right to ask the customer to either reposition the weapon so that it will not be visible, to remove the weapon completely or to leave Wal-Mart property, With the exception of law enforcement personnel, Wal-Mart does not allow any exposed weapons to be worn or carried in public view on Wal-Mart property or in Wal-Mart stores. Customers other than law enforcement personnel wearing or carrying a weapon in an exposed manner will be asked to leave the property immediately.

    We appreciate your concern and trust that this message has addressed your concerns regarding this issue.

    Thank you,

    Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.



    This is BS...

    Walmart has been beat to death....but here you go.

    Walmart
    Policy is to follow the law of the state the store located.
    Customer Service1-800-Wal-Mart
    (1-800-925-6278) Questions regarding a Wal-Mart Store issue
    702 SW 8th Street
    Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.
    Bentonville, Arkansas 72716-8611


    Email contact link:
    http://walmartstores.com/contactus/feedback.aspx


    Walmart is well known to be neutral on weapons.....there are instances where the so called manager is not aware.

    Just search for Walmart on any of this blogs and give it a rest!!!!

    Sorry.....I know you had a situation, but its very clear what the policy is.....get a recorder, so we have something to hear different..

    Sorry to be so harsh.....but Walmart is a dead issue....sue....or don't go back...

    Z



    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    There should be NO "protected groups."
    That mindset, that very concept, needs to die.
    Either we're ALL equal or we're not.
    Agreed.
    This site has been hijacked by leftists who attack opposition to further their own ends. Those who have never served this country and attack those who do are no longer worthy of my time or attention.

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    Just sent off an email on the link provided by z. We'll see.
    This site has been hijacked by leftists who attack opposition to further their own ends. Those who have never served this country and attack those who do are no longer worthy of my time or attention.

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    The "we are getting complaints" line sure seems to besure win for walmart. Who can prove if there was a complaint or not?

    Did they tell you to never do so again? Carry each time you go back.

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    Regular Member 4angrybadgers's Avatar
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    zekester wrote:
    4angrybadgers wrote:
    zekester wrote:
    As long as Walmart "owns" the property, it falls under it's coorporate code, which is to follow State and Local laws.

    Yes a manager can ask you to leave, and you should, but you are NOT REQUIRED TO DO SO!
    Good luck with that, I suspect you'll end up in handcuffs facing a trespassing charge. Generally speaking, state/local laws allow a private property owner or an "agent" (or a similar term) to ask you to leave the property, so yes, they ARE "following state and local laws". Like it or not, the manager calls the shots at the store as a representative of the company.
    You are correct, if a report was filed with the LEO, then you are subject to a trespassing charge, but the fact remains, policy is what it is. The "Manager" does NOT have the authority to overide company poilcy unless a sitituation arises that endangers the customers, a mere complaint, does not constitute this.
    You missed my point. State/local law allows a business to ask you to leave for any reason (outside of "protected groups"). When Wal-Mart says "we follow state and local laws", that could be read to also include "we can ask you to leave if we want". It's tricky, but it could be translated as such.

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    Mark, you sure talk a big game. YOU already have an attorney don't you? After all, someone had to have brokered the payoff/go away deal, right?

    Why don't you put YOUR money where your mouth is and try out the "no one at a Wal Mart has the authority to kick me out" theory of yours? After all, you're the great and powerful MEM, valiant gun rights superhero!

    Go ahead and refuse to leave when asked, get yourself arrested fight it in court, and end this once and for all.

    Or....are you afraid you might be wrong? And a manger of WM does indeed have the authority to remove someone from his store...hmm...

    Either put up, or shut up. I get tired of seeing you preach, but, fail to practice what you preach.

    Oh wait, to end this once and for all, you'd have to actually take it before a judge. No payoff/go away settlement payments this time.



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    Regular Member barf's Avatar
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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    While state law DOES allow a business to ask you to leave, the hired employees of WalMart may or may not have been delegated that authority to speak on behalf of the corporate owners.
    This is but ONE of the many things the OC attorney needs to address, as soon as this site finds one.
    cite your source/reference/law for this.

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    JeepSeller wrote:
    Mark, you sure talk a big game.

    Either put up, or shut up. I get tired of seeing you preach, but, fail to practice what you preach.
    mark edward marchiavafava actually put up? You mean as in, do what he tells everyone else to do?

    Not. Gonna. Happen.

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    Revolver_Ocelot wrote:
    JeepSeller wrote:
    Mark, you sure talk a big game.

    Either put up, or shut up. I get tired of seeing you preach, but, fail to practice what you preach.
    mark edward marchiavafava actually put up? You mean as in, do what he tells everyone else to do?

    Not. Gonna. Happen.
    Well, the main reason I spoke out is that, IMHO, it's our own responsibility to have an attorney should we need one. I think it's kind of lazy, even cowardly to expect folks to do what you should do yourself. How is it OUR responsibility to find an attorney for Mark? Or anyone else for that matter.

    You want to be a trailblazer for gun rights Mark? I'd expect you to have a decent attorney on retainer. OHH..that's right, you spent all your go-away/payoff money on a motorcycle. How sad. Had you squirreled some away for a defense fund, maybe you could be the hero again and go to WM and prove yourself right. Or, perhaps, at the very least, been able to offer some form of support for your fellow OC advocates instead of hollow logic and insults.

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    I got a response from Wal maet that basically said there is no policy against legally carried handguns as long as it was "permitted" by the state. They also said that Mgs could act on a case by case basis. I sent a response asking about the guidelines and explaining the law to them. We'll see. I can't figure out how to post or save the e-mail as an attatchment. Frackin charter.
    This site has been hijacked by leftists who attack opposition to further their own ends. Those who have never served this country and attack those who do are no longer worthy of my time or attention.

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    Louisiana Code of Criminal Procedure-Article 694. Agent (In part)

    "An agent has the procedural capacity to sue to enforce the right of his principal, when specifically authorized to do so".

    I had to really dig to find this one. I have contacted two local attorneys with the question of what constitutes an agent in Louisiana. One was kind enough to refer me to this article and the other wanted $100 for a consult--which I don't have to spend for that purpose.

    Given this it appears to be an agent in La. you must have the "capacity" to sue on behalf of your principle/employer. Not having this ability, it would seem you are NOT an agent. An agent may/may not be able to delegate that specific authority. It depends on the procedures of the specific business.

    It would seem, by extension, if an employee has not had such authority delegated to them then they would not have the authority to force you to leave. I am going to explore more but having limited discretionary funds it will take awhile to get a definitive answer.

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    4sooth wrote:
    Louisiana Code of Criminal Procedure-Article 694. Agent (In part)

    "An agent has the procedural capacity to sue to enforce the right of his principal, when specifically authorized to do so".

    I had to really dig to find this one. I have contacted two local attorneys with the question of what constitutes an agent in Louisiana. One was kind enough to refer me to this article and the other wanted $100 for a consult--which I don't have to spend for that purpose.

    Given this it appears to be an agent in La. you must have the "capacity" to sue on behalf of your principle/employer. Not having this ability, it would seem you are NOT an agent. An agent may/may not be able to delegate that specific authority. It depends on the procedures of the specific business.

    It would seem, by extension, if an employee has not had such authority delegated to them then they would not have the authority to force you to leave. I am going to explore more but having limited discretionary funds it will take awhile to get a definitive answer.
    Keep at it, I'm going to keep pressing on my end as well.
    This site has been hijacked by leftists who attack opposition to further their own ends. Those who have never served this country and attack those who do are no longer worthy of my time or attention.

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    Walmart's manager is going to be an agent of the corporation for these purposes.

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Since the attorney for the secretary of state didn't seem able to provide a yes or no answer to this same question, how is it YOU can?
    Maybe all those years of college and law school. :?

    Do you really think if you call up there and say hey I'm MEM and I want you to answer my question they are going to do it?

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Since the attorney for the secretary of state didn't seem able to provide a yes or no answer to this same question, how is it YOU can?
    First, why would you ask the "attorney for the secretary of state" about a legal issue or expect him/her to give you legal advice?

    As to why I can answer it, this is my opinion in light of 24 years of practicing business law, including a stint as a law clerk for the Chief Justice of the Louisiana Supreme Court. However, since you clearly doubt me, I suggest that you OC in Walmart and refuse to leave when requested by the manager. Let me know how it goes when you defend your actions based on his not being an agent of the company.

    Look at it this way, if the manager committed a tort while he is at work, do you believe that Walmart could be sued for their manager's actions? If you can sue the company for the manager's actions, he has to be acting on the company's behalf and is therefore its agent.

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