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Asked to Disarm at Walmart

J

JeepSeller

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Mark, you sure talk a big game. YOU already have an attorney don't you? After all, someone had to have brokered the payoff/go away deal, right?

Why don't you put YOUR money where your mouth is and try out the "no one at a Wal Mart has the authority to kick me out" theory of yours? After all, you're the great and powerful MEM, valiant gun rights superhero!

Go ahead and refuse to leave when asked, get yourself arrested fight it in court, and end this once and for all.

Or....are you afraid you might be wrong? And a manger of WM does indeed have the authority to remove someone from his store...hmm...

Either put up, or shut up. I get tired of seeing you preach, but, fail to practice what you preach. :banghead:

Oh wait, to end this once and for all, you'd have to actually take it before a judge. No payoff/go away settlement payments this time.
 
barf

barf

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:
While state law DOES allow a business to ask you to leave, the hired employees of WalMart may or may not have been delegated that authority to speak on behalf of the corporate owners.
This is but ONE of the many things the OC attorney needs to address, as soon as this site finds one.
Click to expand...
cite your source/reference/law for this.
 
R

Revolver_Ocelot

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JeepSeller wrote:
Mark, you sure talk a big game.

Either put up, or shut up. I get tired of seeing you preach, but, fail to practice what you preach. :banghead:
Click to expand...

mark edward marchiavafava actually put up? You mean as in, do what he tells everyone else to do?

Not. Gonna. Happen.
 
J

JeepSeller

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Revolver_Ocelot wrote:
JeepSeller wrote:
Mark, you sure talk a big game.

Either put up, or shut up. I get tired of seeing you preach, but, fail to practice what you preach. :banghead:
Click to expand...

mark edward marchiavafava actually put up? You mean as in, do what he tells everyone else to do?

Not. Gonna. Happen.
Click to expand...

:lol: Well, the main reason I spoke out is that, IMHO, it's our own responsibility to have an attorney should we need one. I think it's kind of lazy, even cowardly to expect folks to do what you should do yourself. How is it OUR responsibility to find an attorney for Mark? Or anyone else for that matter.

You want to be a trailblazer for gun rights Mark? I'd expect you to have a decent attorney on retainer. OHH..that's right, you spent all your go-away/payoff money on a motorcycle. How sad. Had you squirreled some away for a defense fund, maybe you could be the hero again and go to WM and prove yourself right. Or, perhaps, at the very least, been able to offer some form of support for your fellow OC advocates instead of hollow logic and insults.
 
N

NRAMARINE

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I got a response from Wal maet that basically said there is no policy against legally carried handguns as long as it was "permitted" by the state. They also said that Mgs could act on a case by case basis. I sent a response asking about the guidelines and explaining the law to them. We'll see. I can't figure out how to post or save the e-mail as an attatchment. Frackin charter.
 
4

4sooth

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, Louisiana, USA
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Louisiana Code of Criminal Procedure-Article 694. Agent (In part)

"An agent has the procedural capacity to sue to enforce the right of his principal, when specifically authorized to do so".

I had to really dig to find this one. I have contacted two local attorneys with the question of what constitutes an agent in Louisiana. One was kind enough to refer me to this article and the other wanted $100 for a consult--which I don't have to spend for that purpose.

Given this it appears to be an agent in La. you must have the "capacity" to sue on behalf of your principle/employer. Not having this ability, it would seem you are NOT an agent. An agent may/may not be able to delegate that specific authority. It depends on the procedures of the specific business.

It would seem, by extension, if an employee has not had such authority delegated to them then they would not have the authority to force you to leave. I am going to explore more but having limited discretionary funds it will take awhile to get a definitive answer.
 
N

NRAMARINE

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4sooth wrote:
Louisiana Code of Criminal Procedure-Article 694. Agent (In part)

"An agent has the procedural capacity to sue to enforce the right of his principal, when specifically authorized to do so".

I had to really dig to find this one. I have contacted two local attorneys with the question of what constitutes an agent in Louisiana. One was kind enough to refer me to this article and the other wanted $100 for a consult--which I don't have to spend for that purpose.

Given this it appears to be an agent in La. you must have the "capacity" to sue on behalf of your principle/employer. Not having this ability, it would seem you are NOT an agent. An agent may/may not be able to delegate that specific authority. It depends on the procedures of the specific business.

It would seem, by extension, if an employee has not had such authority delegated to them then they would not have the authority to force you to leave. I am going to explore more but having limited discretionary funds it will take awhile to get a definitive answer.
Click to expand...
Keep at it, I'm going to keep pressing on my end as well.
 
M

mark edward marchiafava

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Good start, but being an "agent" is not merely limited to criminal situations.
From speaking to a LOT of attorneys, including one for the secretary of state, this is more complex than first appears.
An OC attorney could sort this out.
 
D

DZelenka

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Walmart's manager is going to be an agent of the corporation for these purposes.
 
C

charlie12

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:
Since the attorney for the secretary of state didn't seem able to provide a yes or no answer to this same question, how is it YOU can?
Click to expand...

Maybe all those years of college and law school. :?

Do you really think if you call up there and say hey I'm MEM and I want you to answer my question they are going to do it?
 
D

DZelenka

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:
Since the attorney for the secretary of state didn't seem able to provide a yes or no answer to this same question, how is it YOU can?
Click to expand...
First, why would you ask the "attorney for the secretary of state" about a legal issue or expect him/her to give you legal advice?

As to why I can answer it, this is my opinion in light of 24 years of practicing business law, including a stint as a law clerk for the Chief Justice of the Louisiana Supreme Court. However, since you clearly doubt me, I suggest that you OC in Walmart and refuse to leave when requested by the manager. Let me know how it goes when you defend your actions based on his not being an agent of the company.

Look at it this way, if the manager committed a tort while he is at work, do you believe that Walmart could be sued for their manager's actions? If you can sue the company for the manager's actions, he has to be acting on the company's behalf and is therefore its agent.
 
M

mark edward marchiafava

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Unlike anyone else here, I asked not a "legal issue" but what the state requires to determine just who is and is NOT an "agent." After an extensive question and answer session, still not sure. How's that legal doctrine go? Void for vagueness?

Walmart can be held liable for a civil tort committed by their buggy cart cowboy, but does that also empower him to order fruit juice from Dole? No? Why not? After all, he IS an employee? Isn't an employee the same as an agent? NO?
Then just how does someone differentiate between the two? Certainly, I can't be the first in Louisiana's sordid history to raise this question ? Am I ?
If someone is "authorized" to speak and act on behalf of a corporate owner, certainly there's got to be some "laws" clarifying this issue, yes?
This comes from 57 years of common sense and asking questions.
 
D

DZelenka

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:
Unlike anyone else here, I asked not a "legal issue" but what the state requires to determine just who is and is NOT an "agent." After an extensive question and answer session, still not sure. How's that legal doctrine go? Void for vagueness?

Walmart can be held liable for a civil tort committed by their buggy cart cowboy, but does that also empower him to order fruit juice from Dole? No? Why not? After all, he IS an employee? Isn't an employee the same as an agent? NO?
Then just how does someone differentiate between the two? Certainly, I can't be the first in Louisiana's sordid history to raise this question ? Am I ?
If someone is "authorized" to speak and act on behalf of a corporate owner, certainly there's got to be some "laws" clarifying this issue, yes?
This comes from 57 years of common sense and asking questions.
Click to expand...
Although both are agents of the company for certain purposes, clearly the buggy boy has not been clothed with apparent authority to order fruit juice from Dole. The manager of the store, however, is clothed with apparent authority to manage the store. Even you would admit that a store manager is clothed with more authority to speak on behalf of the company than the buggy boy. What I am saying is that it is my OPINION based on my EXPERIENCE that the manager has the authority to ask a person to leave the premises and to enforce that request through an LEO. If you think I am wrong, prove it by going to Walmart, precipitating such a request and refusing to leave. I don't think your defense that the manager is not an "agent" of the company will hold water.
 
M

mark edward marchiafava

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Now I know why Jesus was criticized for hanging out with whores and tax collectors, yet the ONLY profession He criticized was that of the LEGAL community !

Even you admit it's your opinion, but nowhere is there a cut and dry wording of just WHO is an "agent." This extreme vagueness is NOT accidental, as lawyers thrive on confusion and vagueness. It's how they justify their livings. To clarify and resolve matters is NOT their goal.

"Clothed with APPARENT authority?" LOL, unlike most here, I assume nothing, prefer to ask questions/ get real answers.
 
D

DZelenka

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:
Unlike anyone else here, I asked not a "legal issue" but what the state requires to determine just who is and is NOT an "agent." After an extensive question and answer session, still not sure. How's that legal doctrine go? Void for vagueness?

Walmart can be held liable for a civil tort committed by their buggy cart cowboy, but does that also empower him to order fruit juice from Dole? No? Why not? After all, he IS an employee? Isn't an employee the same as an agent? NO?
Then just how does someone differentiate between the two? Certainly, I can't be the first in Louisiana's sordid history to raise this question ? Am I ?
If someone is "authorized" to speak and act on behalf of a corporate owner, certainly there's got to be some "laws" clarifying this issue, yes?
This comes from 57 years of common sense and asking questions.
Click to expand...
The determination of whether a person is or is not an agent is a "legal issue". The only thing that the secretary of state has to do with "agents" is to keep records of the "Registered Agent" of various legal entities. This is the agent for the service of process on the legal entity. It has nothing to do with who may or may not be an agent for the entity for the purposes of our discussion.
 
G

georg jetson

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The legal proffesion is like any other... some things are cut and dry and others aren't. What I suggest ANYONE do that has a question is DO THE RESEARCH YOURSELF!! Quittrying to get attorneys to work for free and then arguing with them when they decide to be charitable with their knowledge.
 
M

mark edward marchiafava

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I know you're surrounded by persons who have next to ZERO legal exposure, but I'm not one of them, thank you.

As a business owner of 34 years, I am all too familiar with "agents for service," as suing people to get paid is sadly a part and parcel of being in business today. Let's bring back debtor's prisons, soon.

The attorney for/with the secretary of state and I discussed the word "agent" in length and detail. An agent for service is but ONE of many "agents."

You and your buddies in LOCAL carry on, ya'll certainly don't need me, just as I don't need ya'll.

Have a nice day.
 
C

charlie12

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:
I know you're surrounded by persons who have next to ZERO legal exposure, but I'm not one of them, thank you.

As a business owner of 34 years, I am all too familiar with "agents for service," as suing people to get paid is sadly a part and parcel of being in business today. Let's bring back debtor's prisons, soon.

The attorney for/with the secretary of state and I discussed the word "agent" in length and detail. An agent for service is but ONE of many "agents."

You and your buddies in LOCAL carry on, ya'll certainly don't need me, just as I don't need ya'll.

Have a nice day.
Click to expand...
Was that rent a cop that took your gun at the hospital an Agent?
 
D

DZelenka

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:
Now I know why Jesus was criticized for hanging out with whores and tax collectors, yet the ONLY profession He criticized was that of the LEGAL community !

Even you admit it's your opinion, but nowhere is there a cut and dry wording of just WHO is an "agent." This extreme vagueness is NOT accidental, as lawyers thrive on confusion and vagueness. It's how they justify their livings. To clarify and resolve matters is NOT their goal.

"Clothed with APPARENT authority?" LOL, unlike most here, I assume nothing, prefer to ask questions/ get real answers.
Click to expand...
If you are looking for certainty on this issue, you need to volunteer to be the test case. The determination of agency is going to be the judge's (and ultimately possibly an appellate court's). Any opinion that you get from an attorney is going to be just that - an opinion. It may be based upon more research than I have conducted (as much as you are willing to pay for), but no attorney is going to give you a definitive answer unless he finds a case that is "on all fours" i.e. has the exact same facts as yours. Further, that case must be from either the LA Supreme Court or the appellate court for the district that in which your case arises in order to be precedent for your case.

"To clarify and resolve matters is NOT their goal." In fact it is not an attorney's job to do so. It is the attorney's job to advise his/her client and advocate on the client's behalf. Resolving legal issues is the job of judges.
 
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