Pepper spray

imported post

I have been thinking about getting and carrying some pepper spray. In as much as I know virtually nothing about it I am hoping that I can get a recommendation as to which is the most powerful one I can carry.
Do I want one that is a stream or spray?
Does it work equally on animals as well as people?
Am I restricted to certain sizes or can I get a hand filling size container.
Where can I buy it or is it better to buy it off the net?

imported post

jeeper1 wrote:

I have been thinking about getting and carrying some pepper spray. In as much as I know virtually nothing about it I am hoping that I can get a recommendation as to which is the most powerful one I can carry.
Do I want one that is a stream or spray?
Does it work equally on animals as well as people?
Am I restricted to certain sizes or can I get a hand filling size container.
Where can I buy it or is it better to buy it off the net?

Click to expand...

I am very experienced in the use of O.C. Spray. I've undergone chemical spray defense classes. I can tell you for certain, that pepper spray is not pepper spray is not pepper spray. There's some stuff out there that's not that great, and on the flip side, there's some stuff out there that will make your eyes feel like they just got jabbed with a fire poker, straight out of a burning fire.

The active ingredient in pepper spray is oleoresin capsicum, which is the pepper itself. The oleoresin capsicum is measured in scoville heat units, which is the heat of the pepper. To give you a good idea, a pure cayenne pepper consists of about 30,000 to 50,000 scoville heat units. Imagine dripping some cayenne pepper juice in your eye.

The average scoville heat unit for pepper spray ranges between 2,000,000 to 5,300,000, all the way up to the VERY nasty stuff called VEXOR that has over 15,000,000 scoville heat units.

Pepper Spray is also measured in percentage of concentration, usually ranging from 1% to 18%. Generally, the higher the concentration, the longer the effects are, but does not necessarily mean that it's more powerful, because you can have 18% O.C. and it can be pure crap.

Generally, brands that I can absolutely vouch for are the following:

Sabre Red

Wildfire

FOX Labs

VEXOR

VEXOR was the absolute worst, and it's hard to imagine at the time that it's not causing any long term injuries, simply because of how painful it was. VEXOR generally only sells their products to Law Enforcement or Military, but they may sell lower OZ cans to citizens.

Fox Labs spray is oil based, and leaves a UV dye on the attacker, so they can be identified. It also hurts like hell, as does Wildfire and Sabre Red.


This is all good stuff:

imported post

I have pepper sprayed two people. One of the men was drunk and the other was some POS hippie.

The drunk guy went face first into the ground after I emptied the bottle in his face. He was stopped almost instantly.

The hippie was lunging at three people with a knife, I sprayed him from the side, it affected his sight enough that he ran outside the store and was hit by a car. I was back sprayed from this incident and reminded myself that I can breath and not to panic. If you carry spray you should know that the stuff really sucks to be hit by and there is a chance of getting sprayed when spraying someone else.

imported post

I wear glasses.
I know that won't protect me but it might lessen the severity (I hope).

The Fox Labs spray looks like it might be what I want. Where can I buy it?

imported post

jeeper1 wrote:

I wear glasses.
I know that won't protect me but it might lessen the severity (I hope).

The Fox Labs spray looks like it might be what I want. Where can I buy it?

Click to expand...

Online from their website. Blumenthals in Des Moines also sells it.

imported post

I have been trying to figure out what pepper spray to get for my wife and I so I thought I would give my 2 cents.

I have given my wife 3 different pepper sprays. The first one was very small. I got this one because I figured that its small size would make it easier for her to carry. This one ended up in the bottom of what I call her "Death purse" (I called it that because there was so much stuff in that thing that everything that went into it came out destroyed).

The second one was made by Sabre. It is a nice unit with a simple built-in safety feature. This one lives on her night stand which, in my opinion, is a good place for it.

Then, I ordered 2 Guardian Angels. I am still not sure if I am crazy about them or not. They are easy to carry, so my wife will actually have it with her and be able to get to it when she needs it. Also, after firing it, the only person effected is the one who got hit, not everyone in the area. What I do not like about it is that it only has 2 shots. I worry that she would be so scared that she would not be able to hit her target with either shot. However, this unit seems perfect for me. I am confident that I will be able to hit my target. Plus, I usually always have a firearm on me if things get too crazy.

I think it is important to think about your individual needs before you decide. Pepper spray comes in all shapes and sizes for a reason. Just like a firearm, the pepper spray you will carry is always better than the big can of super fancy bear spray back at home.

imported post

I agree on the size issue. Some of the smaller cans only have a few one second shots. It's better than nothing, but best to be used as a backup. I carry a 4oz canister. I have a "Firemaster" canister of Wildfire, which is generally intended for protection against multiple attackers.

imported post

Sylvia Plath wrote:

I have pepper sprayed two people. One of the men was drunk and the other was some POS hippie.

The drunk guy went face first into the ground after I emptied the bottle in his face. He was stopped almost instantly.

The hippie was lunging at three people with a knife, I sprayed him from the side, it affected his sight enough that he ran outside the store and was hit by a car. I was back sprayed from this incident and reminded myself that I can breath and not to panic. If you carry spray you should know that the stuff really sucks to be hit by and there is a chance of getting sprayed when spraying someone else.

Click to expand...

I have had to spray two people as well. Both times I was at work (security) the second guy was a drunk guy that threw a trashcan at me. He just wiped his face then he looked at me and said "you got me all wet" then came toward me. I had to tackle him and wait for SPD

imported post

Funny that you bring this up as I went and purchased OC today. The only place that carries FOX is Bluementhals.( I called Fed Way discount guns, Bullseye in Tacoma, Sportco, Sportsman's Warehouse. Moreover, I also called FOX and they told me Bluementhals was the only dealer in WA that they could think of.) However, they carry only a limited amount. They said they have the full size duty ones I believe 4 OZ and bigger for around $14 something. They do not carry the keychain sized ones that I was looking for, nor do they carry the "Mean green" Fox spray. I went to Sportco instead and purchased two different kinds of Sabre Spray.

For my girlfriend and a friends wife, I bought them "Sabre Red- Blueface" ($6.62- Member price). They have a lot there and the whole lot of them does not expire until 03/2014). I called and confirmed with Sabre corporate and their product should last around 4 years shelf life and should be good until the date marked on the can. It is suppose to be the same formula as Sabre Red but also has a Blue dye that marks your aggressor thus making it easier to identify the person when LEO arrive.http://www.sabrered.com/servlet/the-159/Blue-Face-Pepper-Spray/Detail. From what I can tell, Sabre Red is 50 states legal and thus might not be as potent as their other products. However, for their purposes I found that it would be more beneficial for them to be able to see where their stream is going and for their aggressors to be marked appropriately.

For myself and my bicycling bag, I purchased this

http://www.sabrered.com/servlet/the-82/Quick-Release-Pepper-Spray/Detail for ($5.48- Member price). They also don't expire until 03/2014. Apparently, this formula is a bit different in which it contains "CS Gas" as well as UV marking Dye. This version is not legal in certain states so I am assuming that it might be more potent. Moreover, the overall size fit better for my needs.

I have yet to test out the product but plan on having someone spray me with the version I carry so I can know first hand what the product can do and how I will react if I get hit with over spray.

imported post

Aaron1124 wrote:

jeeper1 wrote:

I have been thinking about getting and carrying some pepper spray. In as much as I know virtually nothing about it I am hoping that I can get a recommendation as to which is the most powerful one I can carry.
Do I want one that is a stream or spray?
Does it work equally on animals as well as people?
Am I restricted to certain sizes or can I get a hand filling size container.
Where can I buy it or is it better to buy it off the net?

Click to expand...

I am very experienced in the use of O.C. Spray. I've undergone chemical spray defense classes. I can tell you for certain, that pepper spray is not pepper spray is not pepper spray. There's some stuff out there that's not that great, and on the flip side, there's some stuff out there that will make your eyes feel like they just got jabbed with a fire poker, straight out of a burning fire.

The active ingredient in pepper spray is oleoresin capsicum, which is the pepper itself. The oleoresin capsicum is measured in scoville heat units, which is the heat of the pepper. To give you a good idea, a pure cayenne pepper consists of about 30,000 to 50,000 scoville heat units. Imagine dripping some cayenne pepper juice in your eye.

The average scoville heat unit for pepper spray ranges between 2,000,000 to 5,300,000, all the way up to the VERY nasty stuff called VEXOR that has over 15,000,000 scoville heat units.

Pepper Spray is also measured in percentage of concentration, usually ranging from 1% to 18%. Generally, the higher the concentration, the longer the effects are, but does not necessarily mean that it's more powerful, because you can have 18% O.C. and it can be pure crap.

Generally, brands that I can absolutely vouch for are the following:

Sabre Red

Wildfire

FOX Labs

VEXOR

VEXOR was the absolute worst, and it's hard to imagine at the time that it's not causing any long term injuries, simply because of how painful it was. VEXOR generally only sells their products to Law Enforcement or Military, but they may sell lower OZ cans to citizens.

Fox Labs spray is oil based, and leaves a UV dye on the attacker, so they can be identified. It also hurts like hell, as does Wildfire and Sabre Red.

Click to expand...

Also "Scovill content" is a good way to tell the relative strength of an OC solution
the formula to figure "scovill content" is percentage X scovill units
so if a you have a %10 solution with 2,000,000 scovill units ( like maybe a sabre red MK-3) it will have a "scovill content" of 200,000


Sabre reds website explains: (emphasis in original)

Oleoresin Capsicum (OC) measures only the amount of Red Pepper contained within a defense spray formulation. OC percentages do not specify the strength of a spray.
Scoville Heat Units (SHUs) mesure the strength of the OC before it is diluted by the inactive ingredients (propellant and carrier). SHUs are also not an accurate measure of the strength of the formulation.
When comparing the heat levels of defense spray products, it is imperative that one compares the heat levels of the entire formulation. The strength of the entire formulation is best indicated by the product's Scoville Content and Capsaicinoids.
Scoville Content measures the strengthof the OC AFTER IT IS DILUTED by the inactive ingredients (propellant and carrier). Here is an example:
SABRE RED = 10% OC @ 2,000,000 Scoville Heat Units. Thus, 90% of the formulation dilutes the 2,000,000 SHUs creating a Scoville Content of 200,000.
(10% multiplied by 2,000,000 equals 200,000.)

imported post

jeeper1 wrote:

I have been thinking about getting and carrying some pepper spray. In as much as I know virtually nothing about it I am hoping that I can get a recommendation as to which is the most powerful one I can carry.
Do I want one that is a stream or spray?
Does it work equally on animals as well as people?
Am I restricted to certain sizes or can I get a hand filling size container.
Where can I buy it or is it better to buy it off the net?

Click to expand...

As far as I know there is no law in Washington state that restricts the strength or size of pepper spray.

the fog/sprayers can have more of a respiratory effect but I personally would go for the stream you wont have to worry about wind or other people as much and you generally have more range. I also wouldn't recommend the foam that you may see around. it seems cool at first because the foam will stick to the perp better but my concern would be the perp can then wipe the foam off his face and throw it at me (i have heard of this happening but never saw documentation of it it )

The RCW concerning OC,CS,and CN sprays is 9.91.160
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.91.160

one thing to note is that no city,county, school(yes even k-12) or other government entity can stop someone from carrying defense spray(assuming that person is over 18, or over 14 with parent permission)

imported post

END_THE_FED wrote:

Sylvia Plath wrote:

I have pepper sprayed two people. One of the men was drunk and the other was some POS hippie.

The drunk guy went face first into the ground after I emptied the bottle in his face. He was stopped almost instantly.

The hippie was lunging at three people with a knife, I sprayed him from the side, it affected his sight enough that he ran outside the store and was hit by a car. I was back sprayed from this incident and reminded myself that I can breath and not to panic. If you carry spray you should know that the stuff really sucks to be hit by and there is a chance of getting sprayed when spraying someone else.

Click to expand...

I have had to spray two people as well. Both times I was at work (security) the second guy was a drunk guy that threw a trashcan at me. He just wiped his face then he looked at me and said "you got me all wet" then came toward me. I had to tackle him and wait for SPD

Click to expand...

What kind were you using? There's some real junk out there. Another great kind is O.C./C.S. blend. (Pepper spray + Tear gas)

imported post

Aaron1124 wrote:

What kind were you using? There's some real junk out there. Another great kind is O.C./C.S. blend. (Pepper spray + Tear gas)

Click to expand...

I got mine at some outdoor sports place...the spray is in a pink bottle and is Pepper spray-tear gas.

imported post

Aaron1124 wrote:

END_THE_FED wrote:

Sylvia Plath wrote:

I have pepper sprayed two people. One of the men was drunk and the other was some POS hippie.

The drunk guy went face first into the ground after I emptied the bottle in his face. He was stopped almost instantly.

The hippie was lunging at three people with a knife, I sprayed him from the side, it affected his sight enough that he ran outside the store and was hit by a car. I was back sprayed from this incident and reminded myself that I can breath and not to panic. If you carry spray you should know that the stuff really sucks to be hit by and there is a chance of getting sprayed when spraying someone else.

Click to expand...

I have had to spray two people as well. Both times I was at work (security) the second guy was a drunk guy that threw a trashcan at me. He just wiped his face then he looked at me and said "you got me all wet" then came toward me. I had to tackle him and wait for SPD

Click to expand...

What kind were you using? There's some real junk out there. Another great kind is O.C./C.S. blend. (Pepper spray + Tear gas)

Click to expand...

cant remember the brand name it was suppose to be a good one ( at least it burned like hell when my TO sprayed me) ill try to find it online it was a MK-4 style and had a red label with black writing. My company got it from blumenthals

EDIT: IIRC it was 10% with 2,000,000 scoville units

EDIT2: the brand was "Defense Technology" heres a pic of the MK3 version http://images.outdoorpros.com/images/prod/5/Defense-Technology-5039-rw-37720-42945.jpg

imported post

Just a couple of comments.

Washington State does not limit concentration of OC sprays and is very generous in allowing its carry. One does need to remember that unwarranted use can be considered a form of assault. There has to be a clear necessity in deploying the spray before the use is justified.

As for its effect on animals, have you ever seen a dog go into instant reverse? They can be charging at full speed but when the spray hits their face/nose they just about leave gouges in the pavement when they stop and back up at full speed. The dog will be so busy rubbing his face on the ground for the next 10-15 minutes anyone who was attacked will have time to leave, safely. (Keep this in mind if you rely on a dog for property defense).

Larger animals are effected similarly but the larger the animal (like bears) the more necessity for a spray device that has not only range but capacity as well.

imported post

Sylvia Plath wrote:

Aaron1124 wrote:

What kind were you using? There's some real junk out there. Another great kind is O.C./C.S. blend. (Pepper spray + Tear gas)

Click to expand...

I got mine at some outdoor sports place...the spray is in a pink bottle and is Pepper spray-tear gas.

Click to expand...

That's actually good. It's from the same makers as Sabre Red.

imported post

END_THE_FED wrote:

Aaron1124 wrote:

END_THE_FED wrote:

Sylvia Plath wrote:

I have pepper sprayed two people. One of the men was drunk and the other was some POS hippie.

The drunk guy went face first into the ground after I emptied the bottle in his face. He was stopped almost instantly.

The hippie was lunging at three people with a knife, I sprayed him from the side, it affected his sight enough that he ran outside the store and was hit by a car. I was back sprayed from this incident and reminded myself that I can breath and not to panic. If you carry spray you should know that the stuff really sucks to be hit by and there is a chance of getting sprayed when spraying someone else.

Click to expand...

I have had to spray two people as well. Both times I was at work (security) the second guy was a drunk guy that threw a trashcan at me. He just wiped his face then he looked at me and said "you got me all wet" then came toward me. I had to tackle him and wait for SPD

Click to expand...

What kind were you using? There's some real junk out there. Another great kind is O.C./C.S. blend. (Pepper spray + Tear gas)

Click to expand...

cant remember the brand name it was suppose to be a good one ( at least it burned like hell when my TO sprayed me) ill try to find it online it was a MK-4 style and had a red label with black writing. My company got it from blumenthals

EDIT: IIRC it was 10% with 2,000,000 scoville units

EDIT2: the brand was "Defense Technology" heres a pic of the MK3 version http://images.outdoorpros.com/images/prod/5/Defense-Technology-5039-rw-37720-42945.jpg

Click to expand...

Never seen or even heard of that stuff. Maybe there's good reason why. LOL

imported post

amlevin wrote:

Just a couple of comments.

Washington State does not limit concentration of OC sprays and is very generous in allowing its carry. One does need to remember that unwarranted use can be considered a form of assault. There has to be a clear necessity in deploying the spray before the use is justified.

As for its effect on animals, have you ever seen a dog go into instant reverse? They can be charging at full speed but when the spray hits their face/nose they just about leave gouges in the pavement when they stop and back up at full speed. The dog will be so busy rubbing his face on the ground for the next 10-15 minutes anyone who was attacked will have time to leave, safely. (Keep this in mind if you rely on a dog for property defense).

Larger animals are effected similarly but the larger the animal (like bears) the more necessity for a spray device that has not only range but capacity as well.

Click to expand...

Pepper spray will have an effect on not only your eyes, but your nose and mouth as well. The keener your sense of smell, the more effective it will be toward that part of the anatomy. Seeing how most animals have a much keener sense of smell, it'll have a great effect.

imported post

Aaron1124 wrote:

Never seen or even heard of that stuff. Maybe there's good reason why. LOL

Click to expand...

I am pretty sure I have seen a few SPD guys with the MK9 version

imported post

END_THE_FED wrote:

Aaron1124 wrote:

Never seen or even heard of that stuff. Maybe there's good reason why. LOL

Click to expand...

I am pretty sure I have seen a few SPD guys with the MK9 version

Click to expand...

Could be. Most of the cops that I know use Sabre Red. Not sure why, and I've never asked, but it seems to be the most common among law enforcement. I've never seen any professional department use VEXOR, which surprises me, considering the potency of that hell in a bottle