Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 40

Thread: This again. Not good .

  1. #1
    69Charger
    Guest

    Post imported post


  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Kent, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,048

    Post imported post

    Let's look at what can be learned from this situation.

    If the two men wouldn't have stolen another man's property, they would not have been shot at, and the home owner would not be sitting in custody.

    Don't steal. It's not worth your life, and it's not worth a legal liability for the person you're stealing from, if they decide to perform "more force than necessary".

  3. #3
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278

    Post imported post

    Too bad the homeowner was arrested. I have no sympathy for the perps, including the dead one. One of the dangers of criminal activity is you can be shot and killed.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Somewhere over run with mud(s)
    Posts
    791

    Post imported post

    ok I know i am new here so please help me in understanding this...

    The facts as I see them are thus:
    1. Guys property was being robbed
    2. Guy defended his property.
    3. Guy got arrested?

    I guess where I am failing to see the problem is why is he not receiving a friggin medal for standing up for himself and his property?

    Like I said I am new so maybe there is some sort of legal hoopdieha that I am unaware of.

    Does this mean that you cannot protect your property in WA or am I just missing something here?
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

  5. #5
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278

    Post imported post

    devildoc5 wrote:
    Does this mean that you cannot protect your property in WA or am I just missing something here?
    If the person is leaving, i.e. back is turned to you...don't shoot or your butt is in big trouble.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Kent, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,048

    Post imported post

    Sylvia Plath wrote:
    devildoc5 wrote:
    Does this mean that you cannot protect your property in WA or am I just missing something here?
    If the person is leaving, i.e. back is turned to you...don't shoot or your butt is in big trouble.
    Of course, each situation will be viewed on a case by case basis.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Mill Creek, Washington, USA
    Posts
    49

    Post imported post

    1. Guys were stealing pipe from the ditch which had nothing to do with the shooter's property.

    2. Suspects were fleeing.

    No bueno.

    Also, don't steal...you might die.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    South Whidbey, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,812

    Post imported post

    Sylvia Plath wrote:
    devildoc5 wrote:
    Does this mean that you cannot protect your property in WA or am I just missing something here?
    If the person is leaving, i.e. back is turned to you...don't shoot or your butt is in big trouble.
    w0rd +1

    WA law is pretty permissive on using deadly force, basically you are justified in using force to prevent a felony against yourself or another person in your immediate presence. But protecting property outside your house it starts to get iffy. And shooting in the back, never a good idea. Unless you believe (and can prove in court) that the BG was running away in order to get a weapon or the like.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Somewhere over run with mud(s)
    Posts
    791

    Post imported post

    Now I understand....apparently I had missedthe fact that they were getting in their truck...went back and re read it now its a little more clear...guess I was just not completely informed on all the facts.
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    923

    Post imported post

    I wonder if the pipes were in the perps truck at the time of the shooting. If the pipes were over the felony theft amount and the perps were getting away with them then couldnt he say he used deadly force to prevent a felony?


    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

  11. #11
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338

    Post imported post

    Sylvia Plath wrote:
    Too bad the homeowner was arrested. I have no sympathy for the perps, including the dead one. One of the dangers of criminal activity is you can be shot and killed.
    +1


    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Wa, ,
    Posts
    2,769

    Post imported post

    Latest news report (:?) indicates the perp drove away, as the shooter fired at him,came to a dead end, turned around and came back by the property owner. Th shooter then fired again, hitting the driver in the head.

    Bad shoot all the way around. Bad theft any way you look at it.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Bob Warden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Kent, Washington, USA
    Posts
    192

    Post imported post

    Lesson today, once again, is that shooting bad guys outside your home while they are in the process of fleeing from a non-violent crime is NOT legally justified.
    Meet the new boss; same as the old boss. -The Who

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Kent, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,048

    Post imported post

    Bob Warden wrote:
    Lesson today, once again, is that shooting bad guys outside your home while they are in the process of fleeing from a non-violent crime is NOT legally justified.
    I'll wait until the case is over before making a full judgment on it.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278

    Post imported post

    Trigger Dr wrote:
    Latest news report (:?) indicates the perp drove away, as the shooter fired at him,came to a dead end, turned around and came back by the property owner. Th shooter then fired again, hitting the driver in the head.

    Bad shoot all the way around. Bad theft any way you look at it.
    If that's the case the homeowner might be justified if he feared of being run down by the truck.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  16. #16
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953

    Post imported post

    devildoc5 wrote:
    Does this mean that you cannot protect your property in WA or am I just missing something here?
    Yes, I believe you are missing something. The fact that Washington Law only allows a property owner to shoot in Self Defense. If there is no threat, or if the threat has ended (like when the actor is running away), there is no longer the claim of self defense.

    I don't like it either but that's the law. As far as I am concerned this is a case where the criminal took his chances and lost. One less criminal loose in society. But I won't be on the Jury so my thoughts don't really matter.

    Gun Owners need to make sure they understand the law when it comes to Self Defense or they too run the same risk,


    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  17. #17
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953

    Post imported post

    Sylvia Plath wrote:
    Trigger Dr wrote:
    Latest news report (:?) indicates the perp drove away, as the shooter fired at him,came to a dead end, turned around and came back by the property owner. Th shooter then fired again, hitting the driver in the head.

    Bad shoot all the way around. Bad theft any way you look at it.
    If that's the case the homeowner might be justified if he feared of being run down by the truck.
    This seems to be the basis of most defenses when LEO's are doing the shooting. Can be real expensive though, just ask Troy Meade and the City of Everett.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    923

    Post imported post

    amlevin wrote:
    devildoc5 wrote:
    Does this mean that you cannot protect your property in WA or am I just missing something here?
    Yes, I believe you are missing something. The fact that Washington Law only allows a property owner to shoot in Self Defense. If there is no threat, or if the threat has ended (like when the actor is running away), there is no longer the claim of self defense.

    I don't like it either but that's the law. As far as I am concerned this is a case where the criminal took his chances and lost. One less criminal loose in society. But I won't be on the Jury so my thoughts don't really matter.

    Gun Owners need to make sure they understand the law when it comes to Self Defense or they too run the same risk,

    actually it might not apply to this case but you can also shoot to prevent a felony http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.050

    Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

    (1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

    (2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Kent, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,048

    Post imported post

    Which state has the best self defense law? ie - would justify a shooting even if the thief is fleeing the property.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    923

    Post imported post

    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Which state has the best self defense law? ie - would justify a shooting even if the thief is fleeing the property.
    I have heard that in Texas there is a law on the books that says you can shoot a man for trespassing on your property after dark (old anti cattle rustling law that was never repealed) It could just be urban myth tho.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

  21. #21
    Regular Member swatspyder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    University Place, Washington, USA
    Posts
    573

    Post imported post

    END_THE_FED wrote:
    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Which state has the best self defense law? ie - would justify a shooting even if the thief is fleeing the property.
    I have heard that in Texas there is a law on the books that says you can shoot a man for trespassing on your property after dark (old anti cattle rustling law that was never repealed) It could just be urban myth tho.
    It's true, but you can go to the Texas board to ask for references.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Kent, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,048

    Post imported post

    swatspyder wrote:
    END_THE_FED wrote:
    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Which state has the best self defense law? ie - would justify a shooting even if the thief is fleeing the property.
    I have heard that in Texas there is a law on the books that says you can shoot a man for trespassing on your property after dark (old anti cattle rustling law that was never repealed) It could just be urban myth tho.
    It's true, but you can go to the Texas board to ask for references.
    So, in Texas, you can shoot someone for trespassing, but you can't OC?

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    923

    Post imported post

    Well there is some truths in all myths i suppose


    Texas Penal Code 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY.

    A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
    tangible, movable property:
    (1) if he would be justified in using force against the
    other under Section 9.41; and
    (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
    deadly force is immediately necessary:
    (A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
    arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
    nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
    (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
    immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
    robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
    property; and

    (3) he reasonably believes that:
    (A) the land or property cannot be protected or
    recovered by any other means; or
    (B) the use of force other than deadly force to
    protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
    another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    24

    Post imported post

    I bought a book "Self Defense Laws of All 50 States" and Washington seems to be a state that looks for reasonable force in defense. Unless the thieves were actively trying to run the guy down, he shouldn't have shot at them.

    My question to the author was can you fire anyone in your house that shouldn't be there, and he said no, that's not reasonable force. They have to be armed and a threat that warrants using a firearm. Unarmed idiots don't qualify.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Tacoma, WA, ,
    Posts
    886

    Post imported post

    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Which state has the best self defense law? ie - would justify a shooting even if the thief is fleeing the property.
    Why would you phrase the question that way??? "...best self defense law..." Why would you want to shoot someone who does not absolutely need to be shot? Fleeing the property after a theft is not an immediate threat to life or limb.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •