Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 28

Thread: MTMckinley bank Branch Manger

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Delta Junction, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    50

    Post imported post



    Hey all I had a small issue with a Branch Manger in the Delta Junction area!
    I went in to the branchwith a customer who ask me to drive him to town.I personally know the Branch manger I walked in and said hello...

    He got up from his desk and said hell No Get out this is private property...

    I told him I was with Steve and thatI was driving him to pick up agift card...

    He then told me to get out that my gun in aholster made his customers un easy...

    There was no one in the Branch!!!

    Below is the letter from the ops manager what you guys think?






    Hello Brian,

    As I said on the phone Mt. McKinley Bank does not have a policy to limit people from carrying their firearms onto bank premises. I do not see this policy changing in the near future. If we decided to post our property we would notify our depositors in advance so that they would have plenty of notice of the change in policy.

    I have to accept responsibility for Pablo not knowing this policy as we had discussed it some months earlier and I failed inform him that we would not be posting any limitation on our buildings.

    I talked with Pablo this evening and let him know my error in not communicating this information. I apologize for any inconvenience that you incurred today.

    Feel free to contact me with any comments you may have.



    Patty Mongold

    Sr. Vice President & Chief Operations Officer

    Mt. McKinley Bank

    500 Fourth Avenue

    Fairbanks AK 99701

    Voice (907) 452-1751 Fax (907) 456-5982

    pmongold@mtmckinleybank.com

    www.mtmckinleybank.com

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Delta Junction, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    50

    Post imported post

    gutshot wrote:
    Wirelesscto wrote:

    Hey all I had a small issue with a Branch Manger in the Delta Junction area!
    I went in to the branchwith a customer who ask me to drive him to town.I personally know the Branch manger I walked in and said hello...

    He got up from his desk and said hell No Get out this is private property...

    I told him I was with Steve and thatI was driving him to pick up agift card...

    He then told me to get out that my gun in aholster made his customers un easy...

    There was no one in the Branch!!!

    Below is the letter from the ops manager what you guys think?






    Hello Brian,

    As I said on the phone Mt. McKinley Bank does not have a policy to limit people from carrying their firearms onto bank premises. I do not see this policy changing in the near future. If we decided to post our property we would notify our depositors in advance so that they would have plenty of notice of the change in policy.

    I have to accept responsibility for Pablo not knowing this policy as we had discussed it some months earlier and I failed inform him that we would not be posting any limitation on our buildings.

    I talked with Pablo this evening and let him know my error in not communicating this information. I apologize for any inconvenience that you incurred today.

    Feel free to contact me with any comments you may have.



    Patty Mongold

    Sr. Vice President & Chief Operations Officer

    Mt. McKinley Bank

    500 Fourth Avenue

    Fairbanks AK 99701

    Voice (907) 452-1751 Fax (907) 456-5982

    pmongold@mtmckinleybank.com

    http://www.mtmckinleybank.com

    I think Pablo owes you an apology.
    I'd go back in OC'ing the biggest hand gun I could find, expect to get it and demand it if it wasn't forthcoming.




    Yeah I dont think i go that far but i do have a Gold Titanium plated Desert Eagle My wife bought me for our 10th Anv. maybe i will start to carry it LOL...



    I think I will stick to my Glock 38 though.





  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    Grace marks the high road.

    I gave up requiring or expecting apologies a long time ago. It just forces the other person to admit he was wrongandtakes away a little piece of him.

    If an apology is freely offered, I would gracefully accept it, for his sake. And then forget all about it.

    If one was not freely offered, I would still forget all about it. I might even let him know I harbored no hard feelings (surely his supervisor will clear up his misunderstanding for him by the time you return.)
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Delta Junction, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    50

    Post imported post

    Citizen wrote:
    Grace marks the high road.

    I gave up requiring or expecting apologies a long time ago. It just forces the other person to admit he was wrongandtakes away a little piece of him.

    If an apology is freely offered, I would gracefully accept it, for his sake. And then forget all about it.

    If one was not freely offered, I would still forget all about it. I might even let him know I harbored no hard feelings (surely his supervisor will clear up his misunderstanding for him by the time you return.)
    I knwo this guy he is a former armed services officer I think He may have even been a officer and he is not going to do say or do anything besides not even talk to me.



    I will how ever really offer any and all people in the area a free ride to the bank anytime they need to go.... That will do it lol.



    Brian

  5. #5
    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Alaska, USA
    Posts
    1,224

    Post imported post

    Brian,

    I am confused. You adamantly argued with me about a year or so agoabout the notion that you didn't believe it was legal to carry in banks per federal law.Me and several others disputed your contentionvehemently and you kept referring to your lawyer told you so and so forth... I remember this debate very well.

    Now you post a thread about you carrying in a bank despite the fact that you were sopointed about it being such a no-no. Please explain this curious reversal just so we mayunderstand you a littlebetter.

    I have scrolled all over and it appears that several of our posts and maybe eventhat entire thread may have been summarily deleted...
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Delta Junction, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    50

    Post imported post

    Flintlock wrote:
    Brian,

    I am confused. You adamantly argued with me about a year or so agoabout the notion that you didn't believe it was legal to carry in banks per federal law.Me and several others disputed your contentionvehemently and you kept referring to your lawyer told you so and so forth... I remember this debate very well.

    Now you post a thread about you carrying in a bank despite the fact that you were sopointed about it being such a no-no. Please explain this curious reversal just so we mayunderstand you a littlebetter.

    I have scrolled all over and it appears that several of our posts and maybe eventhat entire thread may have been summarily deleted...

    I was refering to CCW in banks a year ago!!!!
    >
    >
    >
    > The above is legal open carry in a branch in which the manager tried to
    > tresspass me for carrying in the open.....
    >
    >
    >
    > As you can see there COO has set him straight and As I have always said I
    > carry everywhere that is legal to do so...
    >
    >
    >
    > This is not the first time I have carried in this branch and the day after
    > there legal department last year told this same manager that there policy
    > was that everyone was allowed to carry in the open in there bank. I took the
    > person that I had taken in the first time right back in and they opened an
    > account... This manager has a thing for singling out people that are open
    > carrying and telling them they cannot. I will keep up the fight in Delta to
    > make sure that people are allow to do what we legally can....
    >
    >
    >
    > In this Case it was to call the COO to inform her that her manager was in the
    > wrong and make sure that it goes on his record!!! If it happens again after
    > the above letter I will take it to my civil attorney and I personally will
    > file against this civil rights vololation.
    >
    >
    >
    > Brian
    >
    >
    [/code]

  7. #7
    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Alaska, USA
    Posts
    1,224

    Post imported post

    Wirelesscto wrote: [quote]
    I was refering to CCW in banks a year ago!!!!
    >
    >
    >
    > The above is legal open carry in a branch in which the manager tried to
    > tresspass me for carrying in the open.....
    >
    >
    >
    > As you can see there COO has set him straight and As I have always said I
    > carry everywhere that is legal to do so...
    >
    >
    >
    > This is not the first time I have carried in this branch and the day after
    > there legal department last year told this same manager that there policy
    > was that everyone was allowed to carry in the open in there bank. I took the
    > person that I had taken in the first time right back in and they opened an
    > account... This manager has a thing for singling out people that are open
    > carrying and telling them they cannot. I will keep up the fight in Delta to
    > make sure that people are allow to do what we legally can....
    >
    >
    >
    > In this Case it was to call the COO to inform her that her manager was in the
    > wrong and make sure that it goes on his record!!! If it happens again after
    > the above letter I will take it to my civil attorney and I personally will
    > file against this civil rights vololation.
    >
    >
    >
    > Brian
    >
    >
    [code]Thanks for the clarification.

    I am sure manyothers, includingmyself,still vehemently disagree with your contention that concealed carrying in a bankisn't legal, particularly when you believe open carry in them is allowed, butat this point itseems like a wasted argument.My main issue wasn't about what you believe, it is about what you teach your students...
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

  8. #8
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA, USA
    Posts
    1,241

    Post imported post

    Wirelesscto wrote:
    I was refering to CCW in banks a year ago!!!!
    I remember the thread, you were wrong and didn't know the law at the time.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Delta Junction, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    50

    Post imported post

    Ok lets talk about anouther subject of great debate?



    Post offices??? Is open and CCW legal in a post office if you are there to say pickup your mail???





    I say yes after reading the federal Law what about you guys?





  10. #10
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA, USA
    Posts
    1,241

    Post imported post

    You're not allowed to carry a firearm on post office property, not even in a vehicle while unloaded. There was an appeal in the south in federal court, and they ruled the car wasn't an extension of the home.

    Just park on another property, leave the firearm in the car and walk over to the post office.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Delta Junction, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    50

    Post imported post

    insane.kangaroo wrote:
    You're not allowed to carry a firearm on post office property, not even in a vehicle while unloaded. There was an appeal in the south in federal court, and they ruled the car wasn't an extension of the home.

    Just park on another property, leave the firearm in the car and walk over to the post office.
    but in the code its says



    Looking at 18 USC 930, it would appear, at first blush, that carrying firearms is prohibited. That section provides:

    1. § 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities


      Release date: 2004-08-06

      a. Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

    So part of the confusion is rooted in the wording of this section. The prohibition applies to "Federal facilit(ies)" except as provide for in subsection (d). Subsection (d) provides:

    1. (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to-


      (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

      (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or

      (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.





      so if you are there for lawful reason or to hunt there is an exeption right?

  12. #12
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA, USA
    Posts
    1,241

    Post imported post

    The post office is not a federal building, this has been established. (someone else can cite, can't find the info)

    There is a code which was upheld by an appeals court.

    39 C.F.R. § 232.1
    Code:
    (l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may 
    carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either 
    openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for 
    official purposes.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Delta Junction, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    50

    Post imported post

    insane.kangaroo wrote:
    The post office is not a federal building, this has been established. (someone else can cite, can't find the info)

    There is a code which was upheld by an appeals court.

    39 C.F.R. § 232.1
    Code:
    (l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may 
    carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either 
    openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for 
    official purposes.
    there are two things I see here one is



    except for official purposes. I am trying to find the definition of this now haven't found it yet.



    the buildings are owed by or rented by the federal govemrent and in 1980 something by regan they where given to the areas as common use buildings so there are some that say around several websites that they do fall under the federal build code..



    there have been several case in which people have not been charge because of above. there are also a few place that have tried to charge under what you have stated lets see what happens in appeals.



    the other is only the below may enforce the section you have quoted!




    q) Enforcement. (1) Members of the U.S. Postal Service security
    force shall exercise the powers of special policemen provided by 40
    U.S.C. 318 and shall be responsible for enforcing the regulations in
    this section in a manner that will protect Postal Service property.



    Here is someone else talkign about the same thing and with simular views as I on this?

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/7601.html








  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Delta Junction, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    50

    Post imported post

    insane.kangaroo wrote:
    The post office is not a federal building, this has been established. (someone else can cite, can't find the info)

    There is a code which was upheld by an appeals court.

    39 C.F.R. § 232.1
    Code:
    (l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may 
    carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either 
    openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for 
    official purposes.
    there are two things I see here one is



    except for official purposes. I am trying to find the definition of this now haven't found it yet.



    the buildings are owed by or rented by the federal govemrent and in 1980 something by regan they where given to the areas as common use buildings so there are some that say around several websites that they do fall under the federal build code..



    there have been several case in which people have not been charge because of above. there are also a few place that have tried to charge under what you have stated lets see what happens in appeals.



    the other is only the below may enforce the section you have quoted!




    q) Enforcement. (1) Members of the U.S. Postal Service security
    force shall exercise the powers of special policemen provided by 40
    U.S.C. 318 and shall be responsible for enforcing the regulations in
    this section in a manner that will protect Postal Service property.



    Here is someone else talkign about the same thing and with simular views as I on this?

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/7601.html








  15. #15
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828

    Post imported post

    Wirelesscto wrote:
    Ok lets talk about anouther subject of great debate?



    Post offices??? Is open and CCW legal in a post office if you are there to say pickup your mail???





    I say yes after reading the federal Law what about you guys?



    Please provide a cite to the specific federal law you were reading!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Delta Junction, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    50

    Post imported post

    JoeSparky wrote:
    Wirelesscto wrote:
    Ok lets talk about anouther subject of great debate?



    Post offices??? Is open and CCW legal in a post office if you are there to say pickup your mail???





    I say yes after reading the federal Law what about you guys?



    Please provide a cite to the specific federal law you were reading!
    its was above but here is is again
    Looking at 18 USC 930, it would appear, at first blush, that carrying firearms is prohibited. That section provides:

    1. § 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities


      Release date: 2004-08-06

      a. Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
    So part of the confusion is rooted in the wording of this section. The prohibition applies to "Federal facilit(ies)" except as provide for in subsection (d). Subsection (d) provides:

    1. (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to-


      (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

      (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or

      (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.


  17. #17
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828

    Post imported post

    Wirelesscto wrote:
    JoeSparky wrote:
    Wirelesscto wrote:
    Ok lets talk about anouther subject of great debate?



    Post offices??? Is open and CCW legal in a post office if you are there to say pickup your mail???





    I say yes after reading the federal Law what about you guys?



    Please provide a cite to the specific federal law you were reading!
    its was above but here is is again
    Looking at 18 USC 930, it would appear, at first blush, that carrying firearms is prohibited. That section provides:

    1. § 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities


      Release date: 2004-08-06

      a. Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
    So part of the confusion is rooted in the wording of this section. The prohibition applies to "Federal facilit(ies)" except as provide for in subsection (d). Subsection (d) provides:

    1. (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to-


      (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

      (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or

      (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

    That is NOT the law that makes it illegal to carry in the post office. Try title 39 as is posted earlier in this thread.


    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Delta Junction, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    50

    Post imported post

    JoeSparky wrote:
    Wirelesscto wrote:
    JoeSparky wrote:
    Wirelesscto wrote:
    Ok lets talk about anouther subject of great debate?



    Post offices??? Is open and CCW legal in a post office if you are there to say pickup your mail???





    I say yes after reading the federal Law what about you guys?



    Please provide a cite to the specific federal law you were reading!
    its was above but here is is again
    Looking at 18 USC 930, it would appear, at first blush, that carrying firearms is prohibited. That section provides:

    1. § 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities


      Release date: 2004-08-06

      a. Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
    So part of the confusion is rooted in the wording of this section. The prohibition applies to "Federal facilit(ies)" except as provide for in subsection (d). Subsection (d) provides:

    1. (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to-


      (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

      (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or

      (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

    That is NOT the law that makes it illegal to carry in the post office. Try title 39 as is posted earlier in this thread.


    Title 39 can only be enforced as stated by



    q) Enforcement. (1) Members of the U.S. Postal Service security
    force shall exercise the powers of special policemen provided by 40
    U.S.C. 318 and shall be responsible for enforcing the regulations in
    this section in a manner that will protect Postal Service property.

    Ready this post as well



    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/7601.html



  19. #19
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828

    Post imported post

    Wirelesscto wrote:
    JoeSparky wrote:
    Wirelesscto wrote:
    JoeSparky wrote:
    Wirelesscto wrote:
    Ok lets talk about anouther subject of great debate?



    Post offices??? Is open and CCW legal in a post office if you are there to say pickup your mail???





    I say yes after reading the federal Law what about you guys?



    Please provide a cite to the specific federal law you were reading!
    its was above but here is is again
    Looking at 18 USC 930, it would appear, at first blush, that carrying firearms is prohibited. That section provides:

    1. § 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities


      Release date: 2004-08-06

      a. Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
    So part of the confusion is rooted in the wording of this section. The prohibition applies to "Federal facilit(ies)" except as provide for in subsection (d). Subsection (d) provides:

    1. (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to-


      (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

      (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or

      (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

    That is NOT the law that makes it illegal to carry in the post office. Try title 39 as is posted earlier in this thread.


    Title 39 can only be enforced as stated by



    q) Enforcement. (1) Members of the U.S. Postal Service security
    force shall exercise the powers of special policemen provided by 40
    U.S.C. 318 and shall be responsible for enforcing the regulations in
    this section in a manner that will protect Postal Service property.

    Ready this post as well



    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/7601.html

    The enforcement power per this regulation can also be DELEGATED! per Title 39

    I had previously seen the reference to Title 18 but since the OP had not posted which Federal law he was reading to make his determination, I felt it was incumbant upon someone to ask him.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Delta Junction, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    50

    Post imported post

    The enforcement power per this regulation can also be DELEGATED! per Title 39
    ]



    Show me that in 39 I just read it again and I dont see it.





    Brian

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Delta Junction, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    50

    Post imported post

    JoeSparky wrote:
    Wirelesscto wrote:
    JoeSparky wrote:
    Wirelesscto wrote:
    JoeSparky wrote:
    Wirelesscto wrote:
    Ok lets talk about anouther subject of great debate?



    Post offices??? Is open and CCW legal in a post office if you are there to say pickup your mail???





    I say yes after reading the federal Law what about you guys?



    Please provide a cite to the specific federal law you were reading!
    its was above but here is is again
    Looking at 18 USC 930, it would appear, at first blush, that carrying firearms is prohibited. That section provides:

    1. § 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities


      Release date: 2004-08-06

      a. Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
    So part of the confusion is rooted in the wording of this section. The prohibition applies to "Federal facilit(ies)" except as provide for in subsection (d). Subsection (d) provides:

    1. (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to-


      (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

      (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or

      (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

    That is NOT the law that makes it illegal to carry in the post office. Try title 39 as is posted earlier in this thread.


    Title 39 can only be enforced as stated by



    q) Enforcement. (1) Members of the U.S. Postal Service security
    force shall exercise the powers of special policemen provided by 40
    U.S.C. 318 and shall be responsible for enforcing the regulations in
    this section in a manner that will protect Postal Service property.

    Ready this post as well



    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/7601.html

    The enforcement power per this regulation can also be DELEGATED! per Title 39

    I had previously seen the reference to Title 18 but since the OP had not posted which Federal law he was reading to make his determination, I felt it was incumbant upon someone to ask him.
    ]]





    Below is the whole code there is no delegated or definition of office use in the this section....




    Code:
    [Code of Federal Regulations]
    [Title 39, Volume 1]
    [Revised as of July 1, 2001]
    From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
    [CITE: 39CFR232.1]
    
    [Page 55-58]
     
                            TITLE 39--POSTAL SERVICE
     
                     CHAPTER I--UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE
     
    PART 232--CONDUCT ON POSTAL PROPERTY--Table of Contents
     
    Sec. 232.1  Conduct on postal property.
    
        (a) Applicability. This section applies to all real property under 
    the charge and control of the Postal Service, to all tenant agencies, 
    and to all persons entering in or on such property. This section shall 
    be posted and kept posted at a conspicuous place on all such property.
        (b) Inspection, recording presence. (1) Purses, briefcases, and 
    other containers brought into, while on, or being removed from the 
    property are subject to inspection. However, items brought directly to a 
    postal facility's customer mailing acceptance area and deposited in the 
    mail are not subject to inspection, except as provided by section 274 of 
    the Administrative Support Manual. A person arrested for violation of 
    this section may be searched incident to that arrest.
        (2) Vehicles and their contents brought into, while on, or being 
    removed from restricted nonpublic areas are subject to inspection. A 
    prominently displayed sign shall advise in advance that vehicles and 
    their contents are subject to inspection when entering the restricted 
    nonpublic area, while in the confines of the area, or when leaving the 
    area. Persons entering these areas who object and refuse to consent to 
    the inspection of the vehicle, its contents, or both, may be denied 
    entry; after entering the area without objection, consent shall be 
    implied. A full search of a person and any vehicle driven or occupied by 
    the person may accompany an arrest.
        (3) Except as otherwise ordered, properties must be closed to the 
    public after normal business hours. Properties also may be closed to the 
    public in emergency situations and at such other times as may be 
    necessary for the orderly conduct of business. Admission to properties 
    during periods when such properties are closed to the public may be 
    limited to authorized individuals who may be required to sign the 
    register and display identification documents when requested by security 
    force personnel or other authorized individuals.
        (c) Preservation of property. Improperly disposing of rubbish, 
    spitting, creating any hazard to persons or things, throwing articles of 
    any kind from a building, climbing upon the roof or any part of a 
    building, or willfully destroying, damaging, or removing any property or 
    any part thereof, is prohibited.
        (d) Conformity with signs and directions. All persons in and on 
    property shall comply with official signs of a prohibitory or directory 
    nature, and with the directions of security force personnel or other 
    authorized individuals.
        (e) Disturbances. Disorderly conduct, or conduct which creates loud 
    and unusual noise, or which obstructs the usual use of entrances, 
    foyers, corridors, offices, elevators, stairways, and parking lots, or 
    which otherwise tends to impede or disturb the public employees in the 
    performance of their duties, or which otherwise impedes or disturbs the 
    general public in transacting business or obtaining the services
    provided on property, is prohibited.
        (f) Gambling. Participating in games for money or other personal 
    property, the operation of gambling devices, the conduct of a lottery or 
    pool, or the selling or purchasing of lottery tickets, is prohibited on 
    postal premises. This prohibition does not apply to the vending or 
    exchange of State Lottery tickets at vending facilities operated by 
    licensed blind persons where such lotteries are authorized by state law. 
    (See Domestic Mail Manual 123.351 and 123.42; Administrative Support 
    Manual 221.42; Regional Instructions, Part 782, section IV G 2c.)
        (g) Alcoholic beverages, drugs, and smoking.
        (1) A person under the influence of an alcoholic beverage or any 
    drug that has been defined as a ``controlled substance'' may not enter 
    postal property or operate a motor vehicle on postal property. The 
    possession, sale, or use of any ``controlled substance'' (except when 
    permitted by law) or the sale or use of any alcoholic beverage (except 
    as authorized by the Postmaster General or designee) on postal premises 
    is prohibited. The term ``controlled substance'' is defined in section 
    802 of title 21 U.S.C.
        (2) Smoking (defined as having a lighted cigar, cigarette, pipe, or 
    other smoking material) is prohibited in all postal buildings and office 
    space, including public lobbies.
        (h) Soliciting, electioneering, collecting debts, vending, and 
    advertising. (1) Soliciting alms and contributions, campaigning for 
    election to any public office, collecting private debts, soliciting and 
    vending for commercial purposes (including, but not limited to, the 
    vending of newspapers and other publications), displaying or 
    distributing commercial advertising, soliciting signatures on petitions, 
    polls, or surveys (except as otherwise authorized by Postal Service 
    regulations), and impeding ingress to or egress from post offices are 
    prohibited. These prohibitions do not apply to:
        (i) Commercial or nonprofit activities performed under contract with 
    the Postal Service or pursuant to the provisions of the Randolph-
    Sheppard Act;
        (ii) Posting notices on bulletin boards as authorized in 
    Sec. 243.2(a) of this chapter;
        (iii) The solicitation of Postal Service and other Federal military 
    and civilian personnel for contributions by recognized agencies as 
    authorized by the Manual on Fund Raising Within the the Federal Service, 
    issued by the Chairman of the U.S. Civil Service Commission under 
    Executive Order 10927 of March 13, 1961.
        (2) Solicitations and other actions which are prohibited by 
    paragraph (h)(1) of this section when conducted on Postal Service 
    property should not be directed by mail or telephone to postal employees 
    on Postal Service property. The Postal Service will not accept or 
    distribute mail or accept telephone calls directed to its employees 
    which are believed to be contrary to paragraph (h)(1) of this section.
        (3) Leafleting, distributing literature, picketing, and 
    demonstrating by members of the public are prohibited in lobbies and 
    other interior areas of postal buildings open to the public. Public 
    assembly and public address, except when conducted or sponsored by the 
    Postal Service, are also prohibited in lobbies and other interior areas 
    of postal building open to the public.
        (4) Voter registration. Voter registration may be conducted on 
    postal premises only with the approval of the postmaster or installation 
    head provided that all of the following conditions are met:
        (i) The registration must be conducted by government agencies or 
    nonprofit civic leagues or organizations that operate for the promotion 
    of social welfare but do not participate or intervene in any political 
    campaign on behalf of any candidate or political party for any public 
    office.
        (ii) Absolutely no partisan or political literature may be 
    available, displayed, or distributed. This includes photographs, 
    cartoons, and other likenesses of elected officials and candidates for 
    public office.
        (iii) The registration is permitted only in those areas of the 
    postal premises regularly open to the public.
        (iv) The registration must not interfere with the conduct of postal 
    business, postal customers, or postal operations.
        (v) The organization conducting the voter registration must provide 
    and be responsible for any equipment and supplies.
        (vi) Contributions may not be solicited.
        (vii) Access to the workroom floor is prohibited.
        (viii) The registration activities are limited to an appropriate 
    period before an election.
        (5) Except as part of postal activities or activities associated 
    with those permitted under paragraph (h)(4) of this section, no tables, 
    chairs, freestanding signs or posters, structures, or furniture of any 
    type may be placed in postal lobbies or on postal walkways, steps, 
    plazas, lawns or landscaped areas, driveways, parking lots, or other 
    exterior spaces.
        (i) Photographs for news, advertising, or commercial purposes. 
    Except as prohibited by official signs or the directions of security 
    force personnel or other authorized personnel, or a Federal court order 
    or rule, photographs for news purposes may be taken in entrances, 
    lobbies, foyers, corridors, or auditoriums when used for public 
    meetings. Other photographs may be taken only with the permission of the 
    local postmaster or installation head.
        (j) Dogs and other animals. Dogs and other animals, except those 
    used to assist persons with disabilities, must not be brought upon 
    postal property for other than official purposes.
        (k) Vehicular and pedestrian traffic. (1) Drivers of all vehicles in 
    or on property shall be in possession of a current and valid state or 
    territory issued driver's license and vehicle registration, and the 
    vehicle shall display all current and valid tags and licenses required 
    by the jurisdiction in which it is registered.
        (2) Drivers who have had their privilege or license to drive 
    suspended or revoked by any state or territory shall not drive any 
    vehicle in or on property during such period of suspension or 
    revocation.
        (3) Drivers of all vehicles in or on property shall drive in a 
    careful and safe manner at all times and shall comply with the signals 
    and directions of security force personnel, other authorized 
    individuals, and all posted traffic signs.
        (4) The blocking of entrances, driveways, walks, loading platforms, 
    or fire hydrants in or on property is prohibited.
        (5) Parking without authority, parking in unauthorized locations or 
    in locations reserved for other persons, or continuously in excess of 18 
    hours without permission, or contrary to the direction of posted signs 
    is prohibited. This section may be supplemented by the postmaster or 
    installation head from time to time by the issuance and posting of 
    specific traffic directives as may be required. When so issued and 
    posted such directives shall have the same force and effect as if made a 
    part hereof.
        (l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may 
    carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either 
    openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for 
    official purposes.
        (m) Nondiscrimination. There must be no discrimination by 
    segregation or otherwise against any person or persons because of race, 
    color, religion, national origin, sex, age (persons 40 years of age or 
    older are protected), reprisal (discrimination against a person for 
    having filed or for having participated in the processing of an EEO 
    complaint--29 CFR 1613.26l-262), or physical or mental handicap, in 
    furnishing, or by refusing to furnish to such person or persons the use 
    of any facility of a public nature, including all services, privileges, 
    accommodations, and activities provided on postal property.
        (n) Conduct with regard to meetings of the Board of Governors. (1) 
    Without the permission of the chairman no person may participate in, 
    film, televise, or broadcast any portion of any meeting of the Board or 
    any subdivision or committee of the Board. Any person may electronically 
    record or photograph a meeting, as long as that action does not tend to 
    impede or disturb the members of the Board in the performance of their 
    duties, or members of the public while attempting to attend or observe 
    a meeting.
        (2) Disorderly conduct, or conduct which creates loud or unusual 
    noise, obstructs the ordinary use of entrances, foyers, corridors, 
    offices, meeting rooms, elevators, stairways, or parking lots, or 
    otherwise tends to impede or disturb the members of the Board in the 
    performance of their duties, or members of the public while attempting 
    to attend or observe a meeting of the Board or of any subdivision, or 
    committee of the Board, is prohibited.
        (3) Any person who violates paragraph (n) (1) or (2) of this section 
    may, in addition to being subject to the penalties prescribed in 
    paragraph (p) of this section, be removed from and barred from 
    reentering postal property during the meeting with respect to which the 
    violation occurred.
        (4) A copy of the rules of this section governing conduct on postal 
    property, including the rules of this paragraph appropriately 
    highlighted, shall be posted in prominent locations at the public 
    entrances to postal property and outside the meeting room at any meeting 
    of the Board of Governors or of any subdivision or committee of the 
    Board.
        (o) Depositing literature. Depositing or posting handbills, flyers, 
    pamphlets, signs, poster, placards, or other literature, except official 
    postal and other Governmental notices and announcements, on the grounds, 
    walks, driveways, parking and maneuvering areas, exteriors of buildings 
    and other structures, or on the floors, walls, stairs, racks, counters, 
    desks, writing tables, window-ledges, or furnishings in interior public 
    areas on postal premises, is prohibited. This prohibition does not apply 
    to:
        (1) Posting notices on bulletin boards as authorized in 
    Sec. 243.2(a) of this chapter;
        (2) Interior space assigned to tenants for their exclusive use;
        (3) Posting of notices by U.S. Government-related organizations such 
    as the Inaugural Committee as defined in 36 U.S.C. 721.
        (p) Penalties and other law. (1) Alleged violations of these rules 
    and regulations are heard, and the penalties prescribed herein are 
    imposed, either in a Federal district court or by a Federal magistrate 
    in accordance with applicable court rules. Questions regarding such 
    rules should be directed to the regional counsel for the region 
    involved.
        (2) Whoever shall be found guilty of violating the rules and 
    regulations in this section while on property under the charge and 
    control of the Postal Service is subject to fine of not more than $50 or 
    imprisonment of not more than 30 days, or both. Nothing contained in 
    these rules and regulations shall be construed to abrogate any other 
    Federal laws or regulations of any State and local laws and regulations 
    applicable to any area in which the property is situated.
        (q) Enforcement. (1) Members of the U.S. Postal Service security 
    force shall exercise the powers of special policemen provided by 40 
    U.S.C. 318 and shall be responsible for enforcing the regulations in 
    this section in a manner that will protect Postal Service property.
        (2) Local postmasters and installation heads may, pursuant to 40 
    U.S.C. 318b and with the approval of the chief postal inspector or his 
    designee, enter into agreements with State and local enforcement 
    agencies to insure that these rules and regulations are enforced in a 
    manner that will protect Postal Service property.
        (3) Postal Inspectors, Office of Inspector General Criminal 
    Investigators, and other persons designated by the Chief Postal 
    Inspector may likewise enforce regulations in this section.
    [37 FR 24346, Nov. 16, 1972, as amended at 38 FR 27824, Oct. 9, 1973; 41
    FR 23955, June 14, 1976; 42 FR 17443, Apr. 1, 1977; 43 FR 38825, Aug.
    31, 1978; 46 FR 898, Jan. 5, 1981. Redesignated and amended at 46 FR
    34330, July 1, 1981; 47 FR 32113, July 26, 1982; 53 FR 29460, Aug. 5,
    1988; 54 FR 20527, May 12, 1989; 57 FR 36903, Aug. 17, 1993; 57 FR
    38443, Aug. 25, 1992; 63 FR 34600, June 25, 1998][/code]

  22. #22
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828

    Post imported post

    (2) Local postmasters and installation heads may, pursuant to 40
    U.S.C. 318b and with the approval of the chief postal inspector or his
    designee, enter into agreements with State and local enforcement
    agencies to insure that these rules and regulations are enforced in a
    manner that will protect Postal Service property.

    (3) Postal Inspectors, Office of Inspector General Criminal
    Investigators, and other persons designated by the Chief Postal
    Inspector may likewise enforce regulations in this section.


    The above is clipped directly from your posting of the complete law.
    It is the last 2 paragraphs.

    Didn't quote the whole thing for space saving...

    I bolded and underlined the delegation sections

    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Delta Junction, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    50

    Post imported post

    JoeSparky wrote:
    (2) Local postmasters and installation heads may, pursuant to 40
    U.S.C. 318b and with the approval of the chief postal inspector or his
    designee, enter into agreements with State and local enforcement
    agencies to insure that these rules and regulations are enforced in a
    manner that will protect Postal Service property.

    (3) Postal Inspectors, Office of Inspector General Criminal
    Investigators, and other persons designated by the Chief Postal
    Inspector may likewise enforce regulations in this section.


    The above is clipped directly from your posting of the complete law.
    It is the last 2 paragraphs.

    Didn't quote the whole thing for space saving...

    I bolded and underlined the delegation sections
    I agree they must enter into an agreement



    I have tried to and also call the Capt in Fairbanks on this and as of this time he know of no agreement nor does either post master that took my calls from delta to fairbanks....



    Now they do have in fairbanks a in lue of trasspass in place with Fairabnks PD for the private property cluase per the fairabanks website.



    http://www.ci.fairbanks.ak.us/depart...rofConsent.pdf



    but i am looking for the other agreements now!

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Delta Junction, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    50

    Post imported post

    JoeSparky wrote:
    (2) Local postmasters and installation heads may, pursuant to 40
    U.S.C. 318b and with the approval of the chief postal inspector or his
    designee, enter into agreements with State and local enforcement
    agencies to insure that these rules and regulations are enforced in a
    manner that will protect Postal Service property.

    (3) Postal Inspectors, Office of Inspector General Criminal
    Investigators, and other persons designated by the Chief Postal
    Inspector may likewise enforce regulations in this section.


    The above is clipped directly from your posting of the complete law.
    It is the last 2 paragraphs.

    Didn't quote the whole thing for space saving...

    I bolded and underlined the delegation sections
    Plus you did not define official purpose as well I still trying to find that as well....



    Brian

  25. #25
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828

    Post imported post

    Wirelesscto wrote:
    JoeSparky wrote:
    (2) Local postmasters and installation heads may, pursuant to 40
    U.S.C. 318b and with the approval of the chief postal inspector or his
    designee, enter into agreements with State and local enforcement
    agencies to insure that these rules and regulations are enforced in a
    manner that will protect Postal Service property.

    (3) Postal Inspectors, Office of Inspector General Criminal
    Investigators, and other persons designated by the Chief Postal
    Inspector may likewise enforce regulations in this section.


    The above is clipped directly from your posting of the complete law.
    It is the last 2 paragraphs.

    Didn't quote the whole thing for space saving...

    I bolded and underlined the delegation sections
    Plus you did not define official purpose as well I still trying to find that as well....



    Brian
    Nor did I attempt to... good luck.

    I suspect they will leave it that way so that they can say something like, If you are not EMPLOYED by the postal service NOTHING you do is "Official" in this context!

    Joe
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •