imported post
sohighlyunlikely wrote: LMTD- Here is what I think is our biggest separation in ideology involving freedoms and rights. It is my belief that.
1. IF YOU DO NOTUSE IT FOR FEAR OF LOOSING IT. YOU HAVE LOST IT ALREADY AND DON'T EVEN KNOW IT.
I thank you for your respectful interpretation of my "kiss my ass" attitude. I know I can stand a little strong on the things I truly believe in. If I may be so bold as to believe I am the one you spoke of. The answer I am most wanting to hear is.
2. Whatwas the goal of your post on missouricarry?
3. You have to admit it languagespeaks a bit negative about OC and thehandful of people who practice it. Even wanting to dismantle the calling of the progress made in open carry as a "movement".
4. Do you think there has been a time in recent history when OC was more practiced here in Missouri. You dislike that OC have different reasons for practicing OC. I can guaranty there are many different reasons why people choose to CCW.
5. There are a few things I disagree with in your unflattering Open Carry Manifesto. Comparing the small social OC awareness groups we have in Missouri to the black pantherscarrying assault rifles and marching in a para military displayon the grounds of the state capital does seem far stretch.
Thanks for the response Doc,
I edited your post for clarity only, if doing so makes something out of context please address it.
1. IF YOU HAVE USED IT AND LOST IT BECAUSE OF HOW SOME USED IT< BEING CRITICAL OF THAT TYPE OF USAGE IS WISE.
I am not so sure those ideologies are nearly as far apart as you do sir, I in fact like yours much better, but history says one of them has occurred, and current history in progress says it is happening again. I am also some what used to talking with you and assume there is no sarcasm involved in the kiss my ass part as I do respect and practice it myself in case it is not obvious enough.
2. My goal was the exploration of the constantly propagated myth that the CCW crowd does not support OC when I know for a fact it is not true. I also wanted to explore why some of what was said was indeed true, much of the OC legislation has been less than enthusiastic though more than a few were looking for ways to see it through. I posted it on Mocarry because uf this and I intended on posting it on both sites, but it was too large and only a few would have interest in my thoughts and they would not need to register or anything to see it if they wanted to, just click the link. I also expected to have a bit more discussion over there about organizing a tangible effort to take a serious run at 2011 for OC. My goal is state wide law that reflects the intent of the constitution, from the open carry view point, anywhere you are legally able to be seems like real good language for a state law.
3. Wow, I find it interesting you went there. Well lets take it line by line, Yes I most certainly have spoke in a critical and what could be considered negative about a handful of those whom are involved, there is no doubt that I agree with that statement. On the second sentence it has two parts to address. I will hit the last part first. While a lot of folks do refer to it as “the open carry movement” they also often add “if you want to call it that”, “a disorganize group of militant extremist” a “loosely connected group” etc. I am turning the sarcasm switch o here. Can you name the organization the people I have offended by dismantling it? Switched off, to my knowledge there is not in fact any organization in the state of Missouri that is indeed working on an effort for open carry of firearms. If there is, I’ll join instantly, but if your talking about opencarry.org it is most often and accurately described as a social networking webspace where people interested in open carry hang out and talk about it along with notifying each other of where they are going to be to meet up. I think there most certainly does need to be an organization with defined goals and members working together, but I am not sure there is one for me to have offended.
Now to that part in the middle about progress. The only progress I have observed is the progress made in more restrictions. Ok, that’s not fair but its not a pot shot either. You made some progress with the St Charles police, but at the same time are you sure about that? More on that in a second. I can not seem to confirm the rumor I learned HERE that WG did in fact make a move to restrict open carry but that is a story propagated right on this web space. When a lawyer was asked for an opinion on your video of the interaction with St Charles police, his response was surprising “They will likely move to make it illegal” When I asked why came the surprise “to prevent a lawsuit against the city for violating civil rights. If the activity is made illegal, the officers did nothing wrong so they likely will move in that direction since it is cheaper than training the officers for man with a gun calls and it prevents a lawsuit if the officers ego surpasses the law” perhaps you or others do not find that as surprising as I did, but it is a point to be considered. So while I understand you may have different views, I know of no progress at all in the state of Missouri with regard to OC, I have seen only significant posturing by the anti crowd to attack our rights again because of it, I am however wide open to learn of any positive progress anyone has substantiated.
4. Yes, I most certainly do think that OC was practiced more in Missouri than it is now. I do NOT dislike that OC has different reasons and I have never said that and I am not sure how I ever implied it. There are several reasons, the one with a lot of weight is cost associated with CCW. Another would be in ability to obtain CCW, I agree that the deterrent factor increases some, but I do not think anyone whom opt to put a weapon on makes a good target so some of that might be negated by simply neither CCW or OC making a god target. I have in fact said I do not think some of the reasons some of the people open carry are GOOD reasons. I stand by that, some of the reasons “they” list are less than stellar, some take great pleasure in the act of telling a cop to kiss their ass, others are looking for a law suit, it is a small percentage, but more than a few have said as much right here on these boards.
5. Ouch, number five kind of sucks Doc! Since the Anti’s have yet to be able to explain to me what an assault rifle is and the term did not even exist when the panthers did the march you speak of, you got a thing against black rifles? Did those boys have barrel shrouds too? Ok, I will back off, but you gotta own that one, you deserved me extremely exaggerating what you said for a point here. Um back on track, manifesto? It is nothing more than what I have called it, a blathering, my thoughts pecked into note pad as they came to me as I looked at the situation to determine a direction, Yes, it changed gears several times it was written over several days and it is not yet complete. Did you miss the guy with the AK 47 pistol openly strapped In the national park in Tn that almost cost folks the national park progress. Did you also miss the guy with the AR outside the presidents speaking engagement? Did you miss the hoopla on these board when a guy showed up to Pondarosa with the AR and before it was all said and done, the police threw them ALL out?
Doc, I think you are so damn focused on deciding that I am moderate to anti-OC and want you to stop OC’ing a firearm and having a cup of coffee that your BLINDED by it. I think NOTHING of the sort, I think you do it RIGHT. While you do not agree with everything I have said (which is as it should be, I defined them as opinions) you haven’t tried to twist it up, turn it into something its not and engages in very reasonable discussion. Compare it to the previous poster 9xxxxx. His whole goal in life is to stir the pot, twist words and talk negative CONSTANTLY, the pattern is clear for him. I think it might be the same person as was nicknamed onegoal on mocarry, I could be wrong I do not know either of them, but the posting patterns are the same, always something negative to say about anyone and if they can’t find a good target, they spin words just for the opportunity to act like a jackass. Very few folks are ever going to align themselves with a person like that since everything they do is to paint a negative light, they have one over them.
OC needs organization, it needs lots of people working to the common goal, it needs a lot of sound effort and it needs communication. There is a good foundation for it, attention is high, it has possibilities of becoming a reality. The only thing you have ever done I disagree with and asked you to reconsider was the wording on the shirt. The context in which you used the word hide implied cowardice to anyone whom opted not to openly show their gun. Not the same but very similar to the way 9x said such things about myself hoping for a rise. My position on that remains unchanged, I know some within the CCW crowd whom find it offensive and “typical” OC behavior however unwarranted it may be, perception is reality.
