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Thread: New to open carry

  1. #1
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    Alright, so I'm new to open carry, well new as in, I haven't yet but would like to. What I am trying to figure out, is the whole local law situations. I live in New London, in Waupaca County, both have municipal codes stating that carrying a firearm in any public place, is illegal.

    This is what the Waupaca County Code says:

    B. No person shall go armed with a firearm in any privately owned building, open to the public, without the consent of the owner or owner’s agent. “Privately owned building, open to the public” shall include, but not be limited to, taverns, restaurants, or other public buildings of accommodation or amusement.

    Would that mean that I could not walk into a store without first receiving prior permission?

    And here is the cities code:

    9.28 CARRYING WEAPONS (Cr. Ord. #740). (1) PROHIBITED. No person, except a sheriff, constable, police officer or their deputies shall carry or wear about their person any pistol, revolver, firearm, sling shot, krossknuckle of lead, brass, “numchuck” sticks, throwing stars or “shurikens,” dirk, or dagger or any blackjack, billy, sandclub, switchblade knife, or any knife which has a blade itself but automatically opens by the slight pressure on the handle or some other part of the knife and is commonly known as a switch knife, or straight edge razor or any other knife having a blade 3 inches or longer, or any other dangerous or deadly weapon within the City.

    With the State statute stating that no political subdivision may enact an ordinance more stringent than the states, would either of these be enforceable at all?

    Maybe someone who lives in a city and or county with similar laws could let me know if they had the police try to enforce these laws on them that would be nice. From my understanding these laws cannot be enforced, I would just like to know more details from some people with experience with open carry.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    The law does not say "cannot be enforced." It says, in general, no municipality may enact or adopt but does not provide for enforcement. Some communities are removing their ordinances and some activists are making hay and taking credit, but it is a purely political decision unless the state enforces the statute. It has not, to my knowledge, done so.

    66.0409 Local regulation of firearms.
    [ ...] (some deletions)
    (2) Except as provided in subs. (3) and (4), no political subdivision
    may enact an ordinance or adopt a resolution
    that regulates
    the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping,
    possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting,
    registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including
    ammunition and reloader components, unless the ordinance or
    resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than,
    a state statute.
    [ ...]
    (4)
    [ ...]
    (b) If a political subdivision has in effect on November 17,
    1995, an ordinance or resolution that regulates the sale, purchase,
    transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation,
    licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm
    or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components,
    and the ordinance or resolution is not the same as or similar
    to a state statute, the ordinance or resolution shall have no legal
    effect and the political subdivision may not enforce the ordinance
    or resolution
    on or after November 18, 1995.

    I would say that a more real concern for openly carrying is the police abuse of discretion with disorderly conduct. Remember that the police do not 'charge', but arrest, detain, investigate and recommend charges to the district attorney. Police are not fired for no-charges but you will have to endure the legal process.

    Welcome and best wishes.

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    Like Doug cited, these ordinances have been pre-empted for almost fifteen (15) years.

    WELCOME! Glad to see yet another OC supporter.

    There are hundreds if not thousands of people throughout the state of WI carrying without incident.

    Read Up, Load Up, Holster Up, and ......

    Carry On.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran logan's Avatar
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    Welcome!

    The only laws you really need to know are:
    29.089 - No firearms in state parks and state fish hatcheries unless unloaded and encased or during a hunting season with a valid hunting license
    167.31 - Weapons in vehicles must be encased and unloaded
    941.235 - No firearms in government buildings (courthouse, city hall, etc.)
    941.237 - No handguns in taverns or restaurants that serve alcohol for consumption (unless granted specific permission by owner or manager)
    948.605 - No firearms within 1000’ of a school zone, unless encased and unloaded (unless on private property, which includes parking lots of businesses)

    And of course, no carrying a concealed firearm.

    Here's a link to a pamphlet about open carry in WI. When you carry for your first time, carry a few of these with you in case somebody questions you about open carry.
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4656643/OC%20pamphlet%2015.pdf

    About those local ordinances, they cannot be enforced. You could probably write to the city/county and suggest they remove them as they are illegal and cannot be enforced.

    Hope to hear about your first OC experience soon!


    -Logan
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  5. #5
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    One fine point:

    • 941.237 - No handguns in taverns or restaurants that serve alcohol for consumption
    The above should add 'unless granted specific permission by owner or manager'.

  6. #6
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    Maybe someone who lives in a city and or county with similar laws could let me know if they had the police try to enforce these laws on them that would be nice. From my understanding these laws cannot be enforced, I would just like to know more details from some people with experience with open carry.
    Anecdotal evidence from OC'ers in Wisconsin who have posted experiences on this forum have indicated a time or two that police have, upon having contact with an open-carrier, mentioned a local ordinance but to my knowledge have never tried to enforce it.

    Of course those local ordinances ARE pre-empted by state law.

    Its difficult to promise you'll never have an issue because it only takes 1 uninformed or misguided officer to illegally detain or arrest you.

    The best I can share is that I've not heard of anyone ever getting arrested post AG memo for a local ordinance.

    I HAVE heard that police have mentioned it to a person but not given them a citation for it.

    MORE frequently now, its interesting that I hear from OC'ers that in the rare event police approached them while OC'ing the police seem to now quickly state that OC is legal before they begin to ask questions. Thats the most common scenario I've heard lately. It appears police departments have gotten their officers trained.

    Having said all that, the best I can share with you (because no one could promise you'll "never" get detained) is that the law is ultimately on your side if you avoid the 5 places you can't carry and if I personally were in Waupaca County or New London today I wouldn't hesitate to open-carry.
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  7. #7
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman's Avatar
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    Forgot to mention. IF YOU DO have contact with local police (unlikely) while OC'ing and they mention a local ordinance to you that prohibits carry PLEASE let us at Wisconsin Carry know immediately.

    nik@wisconsincarry.org
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    Also, one more stipulation to add to the five, Please do not carry if you are consuming alcohol or know that you will be consuming alcohol to the point of intoxication. Not only will you get in trouble with LEO but it will also give the anti's something to cry about.

    Just my .02

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    Campaign Veteran logan's Avatar
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    paul@paul-fisher.com wrote:
    One fine point:

    • 941.237 - No handguns in taverns or restaurants that serve alcohol for consumption
    The above should add 'unless granted specific permission by owner or manager'.
    You sir are correct. I copy/pasted that from the pamphlet. Maybe that can get changed sometime to include those words. I will edit my post though!
    Logan - Laugh lots, Love Often, and Defend the Irreplaceable
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  11. #11
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    Don't forget to join WisconsinCarry Inc. the only real state organization fighting for citizen gun rights.

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    Thank you all for the replies, I will be sure to let you knoiw how it goes. Thanks again.

    As far as the permission slip, would that be needed to carry inside of a Wal-Mart or grocery store?

  13. #13
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    Cheyjam wrote:
    Thank you all for the replies, I will be sure to let you knoiw how it goes. Thanks again.

    As far as the permission slip, would that be needed to carry inside of a Wal-Mart or grocery store?
    Absolutely not.

    The permission slip is to allow you to carry in an establishment that serves alcohol. (not recommended you consume any) but for example, if you want to go to a restaurant for dinner, but they serve alcohol, this written permission slip from the manager will provide you with documentation that will satisfy the statute requirements.

    You ONLY need this permission slip to carry where alcohol is SERVED.

    (statute citations are on the permission slip document)
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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman wrote:
    Absolutely not.

    The permission slip is to allow you to carry in an establishment that serves alcohol. (not recommended you consume any) but for example, if you want to go to a restaurant for dinner, but they serve alcohol, this written permission slip from the manager will provide you with documentation that will satisfy the statute requirements.

    You ONLY need this permission slip to carry where alcohol is SERVED.

    (statute citations are on the permission slip document)
    To be very clear, the statute states that you need permission to carry in a facility that has a class "b" license.

    Some examples would be Chilis and Applebees as well as other places that sell alcohol by the drink.

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    Welcome aboard, it is always good to see someone interested in joining the cool group.
    "To sin by silence, when we should protest makes cowards out of men."
    Ella Wheeler Cox


    We must contact our lawmakers today, tomorrow and the next day to remind them of Constitutional Carry.
    Laws are not written because of the actions of many, they are wrtiten because of the inactions of many.

  17. #17
    bhancock
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    Welcome and Carry On

  18. #18
    McX
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    the cool group.

  19. #19
    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    Welcome and great questions. You will find the search tool on this site invaluable. Your questions; almost certainly, have been asked before. The best thing about this site is that most of the BS is left at the door.

    If somebody has something to say about a topic, they will; most often, cite an example from Constitutional law or state statute. You will have links to follow and plenty of help if needed.

    Hope to see you at a get together soon. Maybe this Sunday at the Eau Claire meet.

    Till then, Carry On!

    Hardballer out.
    Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. Han Solo

    http://buffaloholstercompany.blogspot.com/ Concealment holsters IWB, SOB, and belt slide. Open Carry too. New from Buffalo Holster, Women's holsters for concealment and or belt carry.

  20. #20
    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    .
    Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. Han Solo

    http://buffaloholstercompany.blogspot.com/ Concealment holsters IWB, SOB, and belt slide. Open Carry too. New from Buffalo Holster, Women's holsters for concealment and or belt carry.

  21. #21
    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    .
    Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. Han Solo

    http://buffaloholstercompany.blogspot.com/ Concealment holsters IWB, SOB, and belt slide. Open Carry too. New from Buffalo Holster, Women's holsters for concealment and or belt carry.

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