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Thread: Renting and OCing ?

  1. #1
    Regular Member lance galloway's Avatar
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    Hear is a ? someone asked me.

    If you rent an apartmentcan the landlord tell you that he does not want you to carry a gun on his property or he will kick you out ?


    I rent myself and OC everywhere in my apartment building with no problems yet but I thought it was something I should know.

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    No he can not. when you pay rent that property is known as your residence legally you can carry and there is nothing the land lord can do about it.

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    yay, i like a win once in awhile.:celebrate

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    J.Gleason wrote:
    No he can not. when you pay rent that property is known as your residence legally you can carry and there is nothing the land lord can do about it.
    What if there is a 'no firearm policy' in the lease or rental agreement that you sign? Or is it not legal for them to do that? I am seriously curious.

    My pistol is not a pet and I don't pet it either.

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    The word "firearm" occurs in 43 chapters of the Wisconsin Statutes. The title of none of those statutes, to me, clearly relates to contracts. There are as many chapters of Wisconsin Administrative Regulation but I do not have a copy of them to search.

    Contract law is a very mature specialty, with huge volumes of precedent. There are folks here, Pointman that I recall, that advertise "property managers" that may have experience with renting.

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    I find this, an example of a rental agreement with a firearms exclusion -
    http://www.rentdoorcounty.com/rental-agreement-more-49
    Fire Works and Fire Arms: Fireworks and/or firearms are not permitted on or near any of the premises.

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    I find this, an example of a rental agreement with a firearms exclusion -
    http://www.rentdoorcounty.com/rental-agreement-more-49
    Fire Works and Fire Arms: Fireworks and/or firearms are not permitted on or near any of the premises.
    I believe that link is to cabin rentals, for vacationing, not for primary residence.

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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    In Washington state when I lived there a few years back one entire community was a "Gun Free Zone". They had posted road signs stating such and that it was illegal to enter the subdivision with firearms. This was in Silverdale, WA and I lived just across from this "Safe haven". :shock:
    In Florida, some homeowners associations have a "No firearms clause" which may be buried in 300 pages of B.S. I had to read every line to make sure there was nothing in the document related to any rights limitations.

    So there could be something in a rental or lease agreement that bars your right to keep and bear arms. Gotta read the whole thing before signing it.


    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams

    “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.”

    —John F. Kennedy

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    BROKENSPROKET wrote:
    I believe that link is to cabin rentals, for vacationing, not for primary residence.
    So, the difference is what, legally?

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    You can not be evcited for doing something that is perfectly legal.

    it is your legal right to own and possess a firearm as long as you are not a felon.

    I would think that an eviction on grounds of you owning or possessing a firearm would be grounds for a suit in equity.

    Anyone who signs a lease which indicates that the leasee can not own or possess a firearm is an idiot.

  11. #11
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    J.Gleason wrote:
    You can not be evcited for doing something that is perfectly legal.

    it is your legal right to own and possess a firearm as long as you are not a felon.

    I would think that an eviction on grounds of you owning or possessing a firearm would be grounds for a suit in equity.

    Anyone who signs a lease which indicates that the leasee can not own or possess a firearm is an idiot.
    I wouldn't make that blanket statement. There are many condominium associations that do not allow barbecuing on the balconies even though technically you are an owner. There was that vet who was going to be evicted for displaying an American Flag in his window. The only reason it did not go through was not a legal reason but a public relations one.

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    paul@paul-fisher.com wrote:
    J.Gleason wrote:
    You can not be evcited for doing something that is perfectly legal.

    it is your legal right to own and possess a firearm as long as you are not a felon.

    I would think that an eviction on grounds of you owning or possessing a firearm would be grounds for a suit in equity.

    Anyone who signs a lease which indicates that the leasee can not own or possess a firearm is an idiot.
    I wouldn't make that blanket statement. There are many condominium associations that do not allow barbecuing on the balconies even though technically you are an owner. There was that vet who was going to be evicted for displaying an American Flag in his window. The only reason it did not go through was not a legal reason but a public relations one.
    Barbecuing on a balcony is a violation of the fire code and the issue with the flag, if it had gone through would have resulted in a lawsuit for violating the persons 1st Amendment rights and I am sure he would have won. Again a suit in equity. Hit them where it hurts, in the pocket book, it is the only way they will understand.


  13. #13
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    J.Gleason wrote:
    Barbecuing on a balcony is a violation of the fire code and the issue with the flag, if it had gone through would have resulted in a lawsuit for violating the persons 1st Amendment rights and I am sure he would have won. Again a suit in equity. Hit them where it hurts, in the pocket book, it is the only way they will understand.
    I would doubt they would lose. It sounds like in your opinion that association rules are all illegal. Some places do not allow 1 ton or greater trucks to be in your driveway or storing your boat or camper. Once again, these are at houses you own!

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    paul@paul-fisher.com wrote:
    J.Gleason wrote:
    Barbecuing on a balcony is a violation of the fire code and the issue with the flag, if it had gone through would have resulted in a lawsuit for violating the persons 1st Amendment rights and I am sure he would have won. Again a suit in equity. Hit them where it hurts, in the pocket book, it is the only way they will understand.
    I would doubt they would lose. It sounds like in your opinion that association rules are all illegal. Some places do not allow 1 ton or greater trucks to be in your driveway or storing your boat or camper. Once again, these are at houses you own!
    That is correct and your dump trucks and other such items can be stored in another place to maintain the appearance of the gated community. However none of those restrictions infringe on your rights. You v=can still own the truck just can't park it there and I am sure that is something that is written in the agreement.

    If I were to go to some community such as this to lease a home or buy a home and there was a stipulation that I couldn't own or possess a firearm then i wouldn't sign. IMHO anyone who does is a sheep. If you allow your rights to be taken away then how can you complain?

    TITLE 42 > CHAPTER 21 > SUBCHAPTER I > §1983
    §1983. Civil action for deprivation of rights
    Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.

    Seems pretty clear to me

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    paul@paul-fisher.com wrote:
    J.Gleason wrote:
    You can not be evcited for doing something that is perfectly legal.

    it is your legal right to own and possess a firearm as long as you are not a felon.

    I would think that an eviction on grounds of you owning or possessing a firearm would be grounds for a suit in equity.

    Anyone who signs a lease which indicates that the leasee can not own or possess a firearm is an idiot.
    I wouldn't make that blanket statement. There are many condominium associations that do not allow barbecuing on the balconies even though technically you are an owner. There was that vet who was going to be evicted for displaying an American Flag in his window. The only reason it did not go through was not a legal reason but a public relations one.
    Yup, it sure was a PR NIGHTMARE for the Property managers. they got a few thousand death threats from people all over the country.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    Lance, when you were looking for rentals did you ever come across a stipulation on gun ownership?

    I would agree to avoid rentals that would try to put the restriction on you or your friends.

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    I think there are constitutional issues that could be challenged if a property owner restricted rights to a lessee including but not limited to the 2nd amendment. If however you voluntarily give up those rights by signing a restrictive lease, that could be a whole different matter and would probably get into all that contract law stuff. If the landlord or association made the change or came up with a rule after the handshake or lease signing, possibly based on your behavior of carrying a firearm, then again I think you could have a reasonable case in equity.

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    Regular Member lance galloway's Avatar
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    Carryon wrote:
    Lance, when you were looking for rentals did you ever come across a stipulation on gun ownership?

    I would agree to avoid rentals that would try to put the restriction on you or your friends.
    NO. BeforeI signed the rental agreement I read it top to bottom front and back there is nothing in it about firearms.

    And yes I will NEVER live anywhere that putsrestrictions of any kind on me owning firearms.

  19. #19
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    J.Gleason wrote:
    paul@paul-fisher.com wrote:
    J.Gleason wrote:
    Barbecuing on a balcony is a violation of the fire code and the issue with the flag, if it had gone through would have resulted in a lawsuit for violating the persons 1st Amendment rights and I am sure he would have won. Again a suit in equity. Hit them where it hurts, in the pocket book, it is the only way they will understand.
    I would doubt they would lose. It sounds like in your opinion that association rules are all illegal. Some places do not allow 1 ton or greater trucks to be in your driveway or storing your boat or camper. Once again, these are at houses you own!
    That is correct and your dump trucks and other such items can be stored in another place to maintain the appearance of the gated community. However none of those restrictions infringe on your rights. You v=can still own the truck just can't park it there and I am sure that is something that is written in the agreement.

    If I were to go to some community such as this to lease a home or buy a home and there was a stipulation that I couldn't own or possess a firearm then i wouldn't sign. IMHO anyone who does is a sheep. If you allow your rights to be taken away then how can you complain?

    TITLE 42 > CHAPTER 21 > SUBCHAPTER I > §Â*1983
    §Â*1983. Civil action for deprivation of rights
    Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.

    Seems pretty clear to me
    So, with your logic, I can put up a sign in my window with vulgarities because otherwise it would infringe on my 1st amendment rights. How about painting the apartment or mounting pictures on walls with screws/nails?

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    paul@paul-fisher.com wrote:
    J.Gleason wrote:
    paul@paul-fisher.com wrote:
    J.Gleason wrote:
    Barbecuing on a balcony is a violation of the fire code and the issue with the flag, if it had gone through would have resulted in a lawsuit for violating the persons 1st Amendment rights and I am sure he would have won. Again a suit in equity. Hit them where it hurts, in the pocket book, it is the only way they will understand.
    I would doubt they would lose. It sounds like in your opinion that association rules are all illegal. Some places do not allow 1 ton or greater trucks to be in your driveway or storing your boat or camper. Once again, these are at houses you own!
    That is correct and your dump trucks and other such items can be stored in another place to maintain the appearance of the gated community. However none of those restrictions infringe on your rights. You v=can still own the truck just can't park it there and I am sure that is something that is written in the agreement.

    If I were to go to some community such as this to lease a home or buy a home and there was a stipulation that I couldn't own or possess a firearm then i wouldn't sign. IMHO anyone who does is a sheep. If you allow your rights to be taken away then how can you complain?

    TITLE 42 > CHAPTER 21 > SUBCHAPTER I > §1983
    §1983. Civil action for deprivation of rights
    Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.

    Seems pretty clear to me
    So, with your logic, I can put up a sign in my window with vulgarities because otherwise it would infringe on my 1st amendment rights. How about painting the apartment or mounting pictures on walls with screws/nails?
    Gee I could have sworn we were talking about 2A and possessing a firearm.

    How about if you have Bin Laden staying over for the weekend or maybe you could open your doors to Charlie Manson if he ever gets paroled.

    One more time, the sign......1st Amendment, the apartment.....who cares (Do you always run and tell the landlord everything you do?) Paint and spackle are cheap.

    Why does every conversation on here have to be some long drawn out "but what if" conversation? why can't the answer just be the answer?

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    I find this, an example of a rental agreement with a firearms exclusion -
    http://www.rentdoorcounty.com/rental-agreement-more-49
    Fire Works and Fire Arms: Fireworks and/or firearms are not permitted on or near any of the premises.
    Hmmm so this means they won't issue you a permit. That's Ok because Wisconsin has "Right to Carry." lol <---sarcasm

  22. #22
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    J.Gleason wrote:
    Why does every conversation on here have to be some long drawn out "but what if" conversation? why can't the answer just be the answer?
    I now know who I'm dealing with, You are a 'don't confuse me with the facts, my minds made up' guy.

    I'll try to remember that. What I've discovered is that if I think every one else is wrong. most likely I am.

    Your quote about suing for your rights does not apply on private property unless I'm infringing on a protected right. If I own the apartment building I can stop you from having a gun on premises.

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    paul@paul-fisher.com wrote:
    J.Gleason wrote:
    Why does every conversation on here have to be some long drawn out "but what if" conversation? why can't the answer just be the answer?
    I now know who I'm dealing with, You are a 'don't confuse me with the facts, my minds made up' guy.

    I'll try to remember that. What I've discovered is that if I think every one else is wrong. most likely I am.

    Your quote about suing for your rights does not apply on private property unless I'm infringing on a protected right. If I own the apartment building I can stop you from having a gun on premises.
    Wrong , wrong and wrong again.

    I am not a "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up guy.'
    Your not stating any facts.

    the "fact" is that unless you sign a lease in agreement that you will not own or possess any firearms while residing on the property, there is nothing the leasor can do about it. It is your legal constitutional right to own or possess a firearm (providing your not a felon) and as it states in the U.S.Code,

    "Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity"

    Every person includes land lords and I believe any of the land lords rules would fall under one of the catagories of statute, ordinance, regulation, custom or usage.

    You sir are the one who seems to have the problem admitting you could be wrong. Instead you just start insulting others who don't agree with you. Typical.

    As far as protected rights go 2A is a protected right both under the U.S. Constitution and the Wisconsin Constitution. So I don't care if your the owner of the Apartment building or not. All I can say to that is Molon Labe! If you dare!

    If you don't know the facts quit misleading people.

  24. #24
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    J.Gleason wrote:
    the "fact" is that unless you sign a lease in agreement that you will not own or possess any firearms while residing on the property, there is nothing the leasor can do about it.
    Then we agree. You said it was your right no matter what the lease stated. What I said is that I as a landlord can stop you, you said no. I can if I put it in the lease or in the rules attached to the lease.

  25. #25
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    As a landlord, I can tell you that every state has different laws with regard to what landlords can and cannot prohibit.

    In Wisconsin there is a list of "Prohibited rental agreement provisions." (see link below)

    http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/code/atcp/atcp134.pdf

    "prohibiting firearms" is NOT one of the "prohibited provisions". in Wisconsin.

    Other states DO prohibit a landlord from prohibiting firearms in their respective statutes that deal with "prohibited rental agreement provisions"

    In Minnesota:

    Minn. stat. sec. 624.714, subdivision 17.

    (e) A landlord may not restrict the lawful carry or possession of firearms by tenants or their guests.

    In Tennessee, the AG said that landlords MAY prohibit firearms:

    http://www.tennessee.gov/attorneygen...p/op09-170.pdf

    I am not a lawyer, but my conclusion would be that states that wanted to protect a person from their landlord prohibiting firearms have written that specific language into their statutes. IT IS NOT part of Wisconsin statutes.
    In its absence, I believe that it WOULD be within the right of a landlord to prohibit firearms (if they did so within the lease) If its not in the lease, then they cannot. (until your lease comes up for renewal, then they could add it)

    I suppose one could ALWAYS TRY to sue in civil court for deprivation of rights or something, but in that case, you will be evicted first (for non-compliance with the lease) and THEN find yourself filing a civil suit (and paying an attorney $$$) to claim violation of your rights? All over leased space?

    Leased space is like a crazy ex-girlfriend. You could beg her to stay but WHY would you want to? Walk away man!

    Why give a freedom ignoring landlord your business?

    READ THE LEASE BEFORE YOU SIGN IT. If it prohibits firearms, walk away. If you haven't noticed, there is plenty of leased space to pick from. Find a place down the street who doesn't have firearms prohibitions written in the lease will take you.

    If you have already signed a lease that had firearms prohibitions, plan to move as soon as your lease is up.

    You are of course welcome to spend your hard earned money filing a civil suit that you may or may not win, but is that worth it when you can just move?

    In this case, just like a store that prohibits firearms, rather than try to leverage the court system to force your will on another persons private property, just shop elsewhere. (or boycott or whatever you want to do)
    www.wisconsincarry.org Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is not affiliated with opencarry.org or these web forums. Questions about discussion forum policy or forum moderation should be directed to the owners of opencarry.org not Wisconsin Carry, Inc.

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