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Thread: Interesting Walgreens run in.

  1. #1
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    I live in West Seattle and have been OC since March havent had any problem with that until last week I was walking a couple of blocks down the road to Walgreens just to chat and get drinks when we crossed the intersection before the store a squad car pulled up to the light i didnt pay much mind and my brother and i continued into the store we spent some time inside and even talked to an employee about what he used to carry when leaving the store my brother and i found ourselfs looking at 3 squad cars parked in a half circle in close proximity around the parking lot 6 officers were spread out, they were calm but obviouslyreadyincase something happend one approached me and asked ifI lived in the area I told him i did he asked if I would be open carrying regularly or concealed I told him I do both he didnt ask for my CPL but he did write down my name and address saying it was so that if they were called by someone being concerned that someone(I) was carrying a gun in the open around the area they wouldnt have to bother coming by to check it themselves they were polite and quick to let my brother andI on our way, nowmy mother who is very adamit in gun rights is pushing thatI sue for bring stopped unlawfullyand for my name being unlawfully put ona list I see her point on this but the fact that they did not try to keep me from leaving kept the encounter quick and simple I dont see a point to going to an extreame like this as well I see that the police have more of a right to simply want to ask or be concerned considering the fact that they are large targets just look at the 5 officers being killed and many more being assulted in the last year here in western washington alone im simply wondering if there should really be any action taken on this, any suggestions or opinions will be greatly appreciated, thank you.

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    If you are OK with your rights being interfered with and violated then don't do anything....

    BUT, Know this....

    The violation of ALL your rights will occur more and more frequently and more egregiously over time IF NO ONE STANDS UP FOR THEIR RIGHTS. Think what your children may face if no one stands up and defends their God given rights NOW!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    First off, welcome to the forum.

    Secondly, your mother sounds like a wonderful person.

    Third, I would likely have hesitated to give my name and address, and just said, that I live "in the neighborhood." (What neighborhood?) "Western Washington...so that way if you guys get any calls in W. WA about someone open-carrying, you can feel fine about not worrying about it..." or something to that effect.

    Get as familiar as you can with the laws concerning carry and the in's and out's of the civil liberty-aspect of the 4th amendment as far as it concerns your privacy and rights.

    Do a search for the 'am I being detained' threads and watch closely to how the people in those threads handle themselves. You do not have to talk to the police if you do not want to. And know how to recognize the difference between detainment and a mutual conversation.

    Sounds like you've already got a good handle on things, though, so enjoy the boards and we hope to see you out to some of the meet-ups that occur from time-to-time.

    -G20

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    Imagine for a moment a different set of circumstances that put you in contact with that police officer, like he is a good buddy from high school. You've kept in touch over the years and occasionally play poker on Saturday night with other friends. He knows that you frequently open carry and says he'll tell the other cops in the precinct not to be concerned with you if some knucklehead calls in a panic after seeing you open carry, that they've got more important things to do. You thank him and agree you've both got better things to do. It's a win-win and you've gained more cops on your side.

    I think the result of what you (voluntarily) did could very well be the same.
    Hoplophobia is a social disease.

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    I'll agree with geojohn's approach/scenario of catching more flies with honey than vinegar...... so long as there is never an instance where the police try to use coersion to prevent a lawfull activity from occuring, which OC is. Mutual respect is EXACTLY that.

    -G20

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    BrownC6 wrote:
    .... nowmy mother who is very adamit in gun rights is pushing thatI sue for bring stopped unlawfully
    Did the police seize you or was it a friendly chat? It's very difficult to understand what actually happened given your poor writing skills, but it sounds like you willingly engaged the police in the conversation and freely gave them your name.

    You cannot sue the police if you volunteered to discuss it with them.

    Go read my post here: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/44220-2.html



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    looking at the situation it is kind of a tossing point my mother thinks considering the number of them and the positioning to look as if they were blocking off getting out as well that they were not called they came on there own from seeing me walk across the street that it was a seasure i see her point but,

    I am under the impression that it was a friendly chat because they didnt try holding me taking my firearm nor did they tell meI couldnt leave or say anything like theyd be watching me or anything of the sort.

    Even ifI could or notI do not care a bout moving to sue I mainly have wondered ifI should have seen it differently or handled this a different way.

    Thank you for the feedback and support all.

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    Please learn how punctuation works.

    You voluntarily answered their questions. There is no option to sue.
    IBTL

  9. #9
    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
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    I just don't see any point in taking your name or address. No caller is going to report seeing a man with a gun... by the way, this is his name and address. There is no reason they need that information to protect your right to carry.

  10. #10
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Aryk45XD wrote:
    I just don't see any point in taking your name or address. No caller is going to report seeing a man with a gun... by the way, this is his name and address. There is no reason they need that information to protect your right to carry.
    I agree. You were not engaged in illegal activity. Giving name and adress was just an excuse for them to run it through there computer.

    Mainsail made a good point too though you don't have a lawsuit if you volunteered the the information freely.

    Welcome to the forum.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  11. #11
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    BrownC6 wrote:
    I live in West Seattle and have been OC since March havent had any problem with that until last week I was walking a couple of blocks down the road to Walgreens just to chat and get drinks when we crossed the intersection before the store a squad car pulled up to the light i didnt pay much mind and my brother and i continued into the store we spent some time inside and even talked to an employee about what he used to carry when leaving the store my brother and i found ourselfs looking at 3 squad cars parked in a half circle in close proximity around the parking lot 6 officers were spread out, they were calm but obviouslyreadyincase something happend one approached me and asked ifI lived in the area I told him i did he asked if I would be open carrying regularly or concealed I told him I do both he didnt ask for my CPL but he did write down my name and address saying it was so that if they were called by someone being concerned that someone(I) was carrying a gun in the open around the area they wouldnt have to bother coming by to check it themselves they were polite and quick to let my brother andI on our way, nowmy mother who is very adamit in gun rights is pushing thatI sue for bring stopped unlawfullyand for my name being unlawfully put ona list I see her point on this but the fact that they did not try to keep me from leaving kept the encounter quick and simple I dont see a point to going to an extreame like this as well I see that the police have more of a right to simply want to ask or be concerned considering the fact that they are large targets just look at the 5 officers being killed and many more being assulted in the last year here in western washington alone im simply wondering if there should really be any action taken on this, any suggestions or opinions will be greatly appreciated, thank you.
    I think the reason they gave you for wanting your name and address was very flimsy. If someone calls ina MWAG (man with a gun) how are they going to know that it's you? Could be someone else OCing or it could be a criminal threatening people; their reasoning just doesn't hold up as far as I am concerned. I would not give a LEO my name or address unless I were being arrested, and that would be all they would get until I had spoken with an attorney. I am pretty new to the forum myself, but I do read a lot on here and I go to the meet and greets, I talk to people who know more about the law than I do, and I have learned a lot that could save me a considerable amount of grief down the road. It doesn't sound like you did anything to warrant 3 cars and 6 LEOs coming to your location. You are not required to give them any information at all, other than your CPL if they ask for it, and if you are CC. The first LEO who saw you should have known better. Criminals don't OC and casually walk into stores. It's too late to do anything about it now, you volunteered what they wanted to know. Go to a website called Flexyourrights.com or .org, I forget which. There are some very good videos there that will teach you about your rights.


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    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

  12. #12
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    As Ruby refered...

    http://flexyourrights.org/
    Live Free or Die!

  13. #13
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    BrownC6 wrote:
    I live in West Seattle and have been OC since March havent had any problem with that until last week I was walking a couple of blocks down the road to Walgreens just to chat and get drinks when we crossed the intersection before the store a squad car pulled up to the light i didnt pay much mind and my brother and i continued into the store we spent some time inside and even talked to an employee about what he used to carry when leaving the store my brother and i found ourselfs looking at 3 squad cars parked in a half circle in close proximity around the parking lot 6 officers were spread out, they were calm but obviouslyreadyincase something happend one approached me and asked ifI lived in the area I told him i did he asked if I would be open carrying regularly or concealed I told him I do both he didnt ask for my CPL but he did write down my name and address saying it was so that if they were called by someone being concerned that someone(I) was carrying a gun in the open around the area they wouldnt have to bother coming by to check it themselves they were polite and quick to let my brother andI on our way, nowmy mother who is very adamit in gun rights is pushing thatI sue for bring stopped unlawfullyand for my name being unlawfully put ona list I see her point on this but the fact that they did not try to keep me from leaving kept the encounter quick and simple I dont see a point to going to an extreame like this as well I see that the police have more of a right to simply want to ask or be concerned considering the fact that they are large targets just look at the 5 officers being killed and many more being assulted in the last year here in western washington alone im simply wondering if there should really be any action taken on this, any suggestions or opinions will be greatly appreciated, thank you.
    One other thing I might suggest that was suggested to me. Get yourself a voice recorder. I have one now for just such occasions as yours. I got mine at Staples, but I am sure there are other places to get one. A decent one will cost $30-$50. It is legal in public where there is no expectation of privacy. I would be discreet about it; the recorders are small and easily hidden in a shirt pocket. Had this incident escalated into an illegal detainment or arrest, it would have been your word against theirs. When you can't get it in black and white on paper, get it on tape!
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    This comes to mind with that many officers...

    US vs Mendenahall:

    We conclude that a person has been "seized" within the meaning of the
    Fourth Amendment only if, in view of all of the circumstances surrounding the incident, a reasonable person would have believed that he was not free to leave. Examples of circumstances that might indicate a seizure, even where the person did not attempt to leave, would be the threatening presence of several officers, the display of a weapon by an officer, some physical touching of the person of the citizen, or the use of language or tone of voice indicating that compliance with the officer's request might be compelled. See Terry v. Ohio, supra at 19, n. 16; Dunaway v. 442 U.S. 200, 207, and n. 6; 3 W. LaFave, Search and Seizure 53-55 (1978). In the absence of some such evidence, otherwise inoffensive contact between a member of the public and the police cannot, as a matter of law, amount to a seizure of that person.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/htm...6_0544_ZO.html


    Watch the videos at http://flexyourrights.org/and get an audio and/or video recorder...

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    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
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    Sounds simply like someone made an MWAG call and they were just being safe. Their parking denoted a cordon of the exits, probably to prepare for a worst case scenario. I'm sure after they chatted with you and found out you weren't doing anything wrong, they went on their way.

    We could harp on the specifics of it, but it is a positive end: more LEO are exposed to law abiding citizens open carrying, and everyone went on their way unharmed and unangry.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    killchain wrote:
    Sounds simply like someone made an MWAG call and they were just being safe. Their parking denoted a cordon of the exits, probably to prepare for a worst case scenario. I'm sure after they chatted with you and found out you weren't doing anything wrong, they went on their way.

    We could harp on the specifics of it, but it is a positive end: more LEO are exposed to law abiding citizens open carrying, and everyone went on their way unharmed and unangry.
    I doubt that anyone made a call. He said at the beginning that a LEO in a cruiser say him before he and his friend went into the store.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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