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Thread: ATF and Airsoft

  1. #1
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8LakMJ2Ok4

    Ok so whats next? Anyone with basic knowledge of firearms knows that's Bull. My neighbors kid has the same exact model the ATF is seizing, the lower doesn't even come close to fitting nothing really matches up either. The mechanics are completely opposite.

    So I don't see how to easily convert it, ATF wont release that documentation unless a Freedom of information act request forum is filled out. It takes a lawer to figure one of those out, and certain information can be withheld by discretion of the homeland security act. We probably wont ever see proof on this.

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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Absolutely NUTS.

    This from the same agency that's brought us Ruby Ridge, WACO, classified a shoestring as a machine gun, and harassed god knows how many other Americans.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    I think the BATFE agents who seized these airsoft rifles should have to PROVE they can fire real rounds. They should "convert" them to chamber real rounds, and then have to stand on a range, with gun in hand, and fire them full auto on live TV...

    I imagine that would be a video worthy of the "Goofs With Guns" thread, but YouTube probably wouldn't post it because the resulting explosions of the receivers, barrels, and action would most likely result in a hideously gory injury.

    If they aren't willing to do that, they should return this store owner's property, which they have stolen...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    They should have to prove their claims, but IDK about the rest of that.

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    Dreamer wrote:
    I think the BATFE agents who seized these airsoft rifles should have to PROVE they can fire real rounds. They should "convert" them to chamber real rounds, and then have to stand on a range, with gun in hand, and fire them full auto on live TV...

    I imagine that would be a video worthy of the "Goofs With Guns" thread, but YouTube probably wouldn't post it because the resulting explosions of the receivers, barrels, and action would most likely result in a hideously gory injury.

    If they aren't willing to do that, they should return this store owner's property, which they have stolen...
    And what pray tell gives you the insight that they won't do it?
    Sadly they will use the excuse of how dangerous they are, see his head is missing.

    http://redux.com/stream/item/1353550...-fail?fid=6730

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    I honestly thought 'what the F are they smoking' when I heard about this stuff a while back, but another article kinda made it clear just how it's possible.



    First, Let's consider that the only part of an ar15 that is legally a gun, is the stripped lower receiver. Next, let's consider that Bushmaster has been making some of those out of carbon fiber for a while.

    Now, you pick up a full upper, a lower parts kit to make it do it's thing on the lower receiver, and now you have a fully functional (piece of crap) that I'd bet would be capable of firing. All the lower has to do is withstand the recoil which, let's face it, really doesn't exist in standard 223/556. All of the explosive force is contained in the upper. Basically, an ar15 without having to go through a background check process or any type.

    I don't think the lower would LASt very long at all, but for a psycho, it only takes one.

    Admittedly, it would be a HELL of a lot easier, faster, and cheaper to just buy an illegal gun on the black market.


    Found an interesting link:

    http://www.laroysairsoft.com/Product...ctCode=JGM4FLR

    I'd imagine more than a few other 'airsoft' lowers that might be out there as well. Even the one in that photo looks to be pretty close to spec, which probably makes it easy enough to modify.

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    I posted one of the original threads about this the first time they did this. Needless to say the brain matter we had to pick up because of the members heads exploding due to the stupidity of the ATF still makes my head hurt.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Thoreau wrote:
    Now, you pick up a full upper, a lower parts kit to make it do it's thing on the lower receiver, and now you have a fully functional (piece of crap) that I'd bet would be capable of firing. All the lower has to do is withstand the recoil which, let's face it, really doesn't exist in standard 223/556. All of the explosive force is contained in the upper. Basically, an ar15 without having to go through a background check process or any type.
    So let me get this right...

    Th eATF thinks that someone who is hell-bent on mahem and destruction is going to buy a $1000 airsoft rifle, then buy a real complete upper (another $400-600) and a lower parts kit (another $150-300), a few real mags (another $50-100) and spend TWICE the cost of a legitimate functional real (but admittedly budget) AR to build a "firearm" that is going to blow itself apart after the second mag or so, rather than just buy a hot one on the street for $500?

    Uh, don't they have accountants and lawyers over there at ATF? You'd think a LEA would actually understand how psychopathic criminals really work, instead of just making up these ridiculous clownish scenarios that make NO sense whatsoever so that they can harass honest businesses...

    I think some of the folks at ATF are dipping into the "A" part a little too often...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Thoreau wrote:
    I'd imagine more than a few other 'airsoft' lowers that might be out there as well. Even the one in that photo looks to be pretty close to spec, which probably makes it easy enough to modify.

    Ya know, with a little work I could "modify" a 3x6x10 piece of aluminum into an AR lower. Just a "little" filing here and machining there.

    Of course with a trip to the hardware store I could find everything I needed to put together a firearm (without any machining).

    IT IS A REDICULOUS ASSERTION BY THE ATF

    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  10. #10
    Regular Member frommycolddeadhands's Avatar
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    Uh-huh, and with a little ingenuity I'm pretty sure a psycho could rig an inconspicuous ball point pen into a single shot zip gun

    Maybe they should start intercepting Bic shipments too....
    God is the one driving this stagecoach, I'm just riding shotgun.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    I visited the JFK Special Operations Museum on Ft. Bragg in Fayetteville a few years ago, and they had a pack of Camels that would shoot a .22 LR.

    I don't know if it was a "spy device" or a VERY radical bit of smoking cessation gear... :shock:

    But it was interesting, and supposedly it was actually used "int he field".

    I've also seen at the International Spy Museum in DC, fountain pen guns, pocket cameras that fired a single round, umbrella guns, and a briefcase with an MP-5 built into it that could be fired with the briefcase completely closed, with a trigger in the handle of the case. (just hope you don't have a FTF with that one...)

    Gumsmiths through the ages have made some spectacularly wacky firearms. I've seen shoe guns, hat guns, briefcase guns, guns built into the hilts of swords and heads of battle axes, and even shield guns from the 1600's. I've seen guns built into Rolliflex cameras, cigarette packs, books, even a gun that was built into a paper-mache mock up of a folded newspaper. If you check through the US Patent Office archives, you can find some ASTOUNDINGLY weird and wacky gun designs. And the "intelligence communities" on BOTH sides came up with some truly BIZARRE designs during the Cold War.

    A crafty gunsmith can make ANYTHING fire a round once. Heck, if you wanted to, you could build a "zip gun" that could be fitted into a hotdog or a ham sandwich and was activated by biting. :what:

    Personally, I'll stick with the "purpose-built" versions we all normally carry...

    But apparently, the ATF must believe they have the power to regulate and seize things like hotdogs, shoes, umbrellas, and fountain pens too.

    Pretty soon, BigLots will have to have an Class-1 FFL just to sell umbrellas...


    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  12. #12
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Whats next, the ATF regulating pocket watches?
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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