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Thread: where do you draw the line with a pat down

  1. #1
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    as seen here

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6S8dzXHbe0

    if it was a female cop it be different

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    It's a common area for folks to carry a handgun if they are of the "I don't need no steenkin' holster" persuasion.

    Female cops are trained just like male cops - checking for weapons can save your life. If there is a need to be PC/polite you can use the back of your hand first.

    And the courts have given both exceptions and great leeway to opposite-sex searches in exigent circumstances. No need to hold sumdood till a male officer can arrive to check out his crotch.

    The line probably gets drawn if the searcher is spending an inordinate amount of time and energy in the search.

    stay safe.
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    I'd say, never give consent to a search. If a cop says he's going to do it anyway, don't fight about it, but make it clear you object to his detaining you without probable cause, state clearly that you have not done anything to make him think you present any kind of threat, and that you do not give your consent. Of course, it helps if you haven't done anything illegal to get yourself stopped in the first place.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

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    user wrote:
    I'd say, never give consent to a search. If a cop says he's going to do it anyway, don't fight about it, but make it clear you object to his detaining you without probable cause, state clearly that you have not done anything to make him think you present any kind of threat, and that you do not give your consent. Of course, it helps if you haven't done anything illegal to get yourself stopped in the first place.
    Your personal recorder on all the while.

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    eye95 wrote:
    user wrote:
    I'd say, never give consent to a search. If a cop says he's going to do it anyway, don't fight about it, but make it clear you object to his detaining you without probable cause, state clearly that you have not done anything to make him think you present any kind of threat, and that you do not give your consent. Of course, it helps if you haven't done anything illegal to get yourself stopped in the first place.
    Your personal recorder on all the while.
    what if your in jersey and they take it and smash it

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    user wrote:
    Of course, it helps if you haven't done anything illegal to get yourself stopped in the first place.
    That would be a neat trick. Did you know that the average American citizen commits 3 felonies per day, most of the time completely unaware that they are in violation?

    The law is so volumous and arcane that anyone can be arrested at any time for any reason. Of course that doesn't actually happen because the police themselves don't even know the law.

    You should read this book (amazon link).

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    canadian wrote:
    ...Did you know that the average American citizen commits 3 felonies per day, most of the time completely unaware that they are in violation?

    The law is so volumous and arcane that anyone can be arrested at any time for any reason. Of course that doesn't actually happen because the police themselves don't even know the law....
    You're right. And I'm convinced that there are a few people who are cynically motivated to compound the problem by making up new laws just for the purpose of criminalizing as many people as possible. Like John Mortimer had his main character say, in Rumpole of the Bailey, "Crime is a growth industry." And there are some people who want to be able to "get" anyone they want to, for any reason, and want to be able to find something, anything, to hang them on. The late, great, J.Edgar was famous for that approach.

    My favorite is the little medicine organizers they sell at drug stores, so Granny can identify her meds for the whole week or carry the right amount conveniently for travel. Using one of those containers for prescription medications is a violation of exactly the same law that makes possession of large quantities of cocaine illegal, and carries the same sentence.

    Idiots are steering the boat.
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    ericfrompahrump wrote:
    eye95 wrote:
    ...
    Your personal recorder on all the while.
    what if your in jersey and they take it and smash it
    File suit against the person who smashed it for "trespass to chattels" and "conversion".
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    At my junk.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  10. #10
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    user wrote:
    My favorite is the little medicine organizers they sell at drug stores, so Granny can identify her meds for the whole week or carry the right amount conveniently for travel. Using one of those containers for prescription medications is a violation of exactly the same law that makes possession of large quantities of cocaine illegal, and carries the same sentence.

    Idiots are steering the boat.
    Like the smoked license plate covers they sell in VA and MD in auto parts stores--which are ILLEGAL TO USE on your car in both jurisdictions...

    I learned this the hard way, three days after I purchased my HHR. I was in VA, taking my wife to an appointment, and it started to sprinkle. I had the temporary tags, and didn't want them to get wet, so I stopped in a Track Auto and bought a pair of clear plastic tag covers--the ONLY two they had--a clear one an a smoked one. I put the clear one on the front and the smoked on on the back. 15 minutes later, I was being pulled over on I-66 in NoVa by a VA State Trooper who then attempted to tell me how illegal they were and how I needed to get that smoked cover off my car, because it could be construed as an attempt to avoid or defeat radar or license plate readers at toll gates.

    I offered to take it off right then and there, sitting on the shoulder of I-66 at the beginning of afternoon rush hour, because I had my tool box in the back.

    He asked me to explain why I had a smoked cover on my plate. So I showed him my receipt and told him I wanted to file a charge against Track Auto for Criminal Conspiracy and Entrapment, for selling me an accessory that was blatantly illegal in VA, and that I would need him to accompany me to the Fairfax County Courthouse so I could swear out a criminal complaint, with him as my witness, and to protect the chain of custody of this dangerous and illegal contraband.

    He went back to his cruiser, and a few minutes, came back, handed me a xerox copy of the statute (and no citation) and told me to have a nice day.

    The more laws they make, the more criminals they make out of honest people, and the less time they have to actually go after the REAL criminals. The ultimate goal in this legalistic mentality is to eventually make EVERYTHING illegal, so that you can't do ANYTHING without breaking some stupid law and being fined. This trend toward ultimate regulation of EVERYTHING has NOTHING to do with safety or crime, and EVERYTHING to do with control and revenue collection. Administrative fines are simply a form of extra-legislative taxation...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Dreamer wrote:
    [quote]user wrote:
    The more laws they make, the more criminals they make out of honest people, and the less time they have to actually go after the REAL criminals. The ultimate goal in this legalistic mentality is to eventually make EVERYTHING illegal, so that you can't do ANYTHING without breaking some stupid law and being fined. This trend toward ultimate regulation of EVERYTHINGÂ* has NOTHING to do with safety or crime, and EVERYTHING to do with control and revenue collection. Administrative fines are simply a form of extra-legislative taxation...

    Ding ding ding! Jackpot.

    How is it that we, the People, know this to be fact, yet those who we have chosen to represent us (on all levels of government) fail understand. Surely they, too, know that most of these laws are "death by a thousand cuts." When, and how, do we draw the line? Once a bill becomes law, it's a downright nightmare getting rid of it.

    I propose we chunk the law, along with all those administrative regulations and other pseudo-laws, and start again fresh.

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