peterarthur
Regular Member
imported post
A Jackson County deputy named... Heckadon??? stopped me as I was exiting Raytown Walmart. He started by asking if I was an LEO. He was so polite I stopped and decided to engage him. I said no. He asked why I was carrying a weapon. I asked him if he had time to protect me 24 hours a day. He said no. I said "That's why I carry." He asked if I felt I was in danger. I said "No more or less than any other citizen but I decided not to be an ignorant victim like the rest." He chuckled slightly at that, so I decided to continue the conversation and did not ask to leave. He asked if I knew that it was not ok to carry in the store. I said that I had not seen any signs asking me not to and if it was the local store policy. He said it was policy for ALL Walmarts. I was tempted to start in on my "Am I being detained?" mantra but he seemed to be gearing up to puff his chest and start strutting and I was in the mood to find out how much law he knew. So I took over and started asking questions like, "Do you know the Raytown ordinance concerning illegal use of weapons or the Missouri statute?" He said he could not quote them so I did
Then I asked him why he was stopping me. He said because he had NEVER seen a civilian open carry before, "unusual behavior". I asked him if he had ever heard of situational awareness because I HAVE seen other people carry open in the Kansas City area. He tried to take control by asking what I would do if someone tried to take my gun. I said, "Why do you think they would be able to?" He asked if I had any weapons retention training (which I do). I asked, "Why would you think that I don't." He said I certainly had military bearing (US Army veteran) so I must be former military or law enforcement. I did admit that I had a background conducive to having some knowledge of what I was doing. He said, "I'm a cop and even I don't carry off duty." I asked him, "Do you like being defenseless out in public?" He said it was a bother to carry around the extra weight. I asked, "So why carry now?" He said it was part of his job. We went through all the same old tired "What ifs" and I answered them all with questions of my own. When he finally suggested that he thought some guys might carry just to look tough, I told him that insults were an end to the conversation and he tried to recover by saying, "Well, not you specifically, you don't need to get sensitive" so I asked, "Is that why YOU became a cop, to look tough?" He looked kind of pissed then I said, "Fair is fair, you fired first," and I chuckled a little to lighten the mood which seemed to work. At one point, he started telling me that he had a RIGHT and duty to stop anyone and ask questions. I said, "Would I have a right to refuse to answer his questions?" He said, "Technically, except you would have to tell who you are." I asked if that was state law. He said yes. I asked, "Does Missouri statute require you to detain me for a specific articulable crime before requiring me to identify myself," to which he said no. I said," I recommend you brush up on the law. Do you read all statutes and ordinances for the jurisdictions that you work in." Of course he said yes so I said, "Then it must be a memory issue," and I quoted him the statutes by number and text and offered to let him view them on my iPhone, which he declined. He said,"You seem to be well versed in the law." I said, "Would you expect less from an intelligent citizen who knows that he will be questioned occasionally by law enforcement officers for a legal activity?" He said, "Then why do it?" to which I replied, "Do you do everything you do because it makes everyone else around you happy?" I knew I had out-"alpha-dogged" him when he pulled out that he was being assigned to DEA as a way to bring up his street cred. I congratulated him and told him I would be happy to leave and that I would follow up with management to clarify the issue and I thanked him for his time, shook his hand and walked off!!! lol... That was a little risky because he did not dismiss me EXPLICITLY but he inferred it by shaking my hand and nodding as I began to move away. He had also earlier informed me that failure to stop on a "ped check" was reasonable suspicion, just like failing to pull over in your car. They can stop you any time. One thing: He never asked for my name or ID. He knew (we knew) I was in charge of the interview. Next time I see him, I might resort to the "Am I being detained?" stonewall... but it was kind of fun knowing I did not HAVE to answer his questions. And 98% of my half of the conversation was questions. That is the way to control the conversation. CheckPointUSA on youtube taught me that. The worst part was that my phone battery died when I hit record on the video cam. I knew it was low when I left the house... lesson learned... I have been prepared about 30 different times over the last few weeks when I have seen LEO's about but none have approached me... until my phone died... lol... this would have been fun to hear
I sent an email to Walmart corporate. I already read a previous response from Walmart on another thread, a confusing response. Corporate policy says it is ok if it is legal... unless the manager says so. Way to be clear... we will see what I get.
Make sure to go after 9pm if you wish to see the deputy. DON'T mention this incident or he may accuse you of trying to cause trouble because you already know the policy (according to him and the asst manager)
A Jackson County deputy named... Heckadon??? stopped me as I was exiting Raytown Walmart. He started by asking if I was an LEO. He was so polite I stopped and decided to engage him. I said no. He asked why I was carrying a weapon. I asked him if he had time to protect me 24 hours a day. He said no. I said "That's why I carry." He asked if I felt I was in danger. I said "No more or less than any other citizen but I decided not to be an ignorant victim like the rest." He chuckled slightly at that, so I decided to continue the conversation and did not ask to leave. He asked if I knew that it was not ok to carry in the store. I said that I had not seen any signs asking me not to and if it was the local store policy. He said it was policy for ALL Walmarts. I was tempted to start in on my "Am I being detained?" mantra but he seemed to be gearing up to puff his chest and start strutting and I was in the mood to find out how much law he knew. So I took over and started asking questions like, "Do you know the Raytown ordinance concerning illegal use of weapons or the Missouri statute?" He said he could not quote them so I did
Then I asked him why he was stopping me. He said because he had NEVER seen a civilian open carry before, "unusual behavior". I asked him if he had ever heard of situational awareness because I HAVE seen other people carry open in the Kansas City area. He tried to take control by asking what I would do if someone tried to take my gun. I said, "Why do you think they would be able to?" He asked if I had any weapons retention training (which I do). I asked, "Why would you think that I don't." He said I certainly had military bearing (US Army veteran) so I must be former military or law enforcement. I did admit that I had a background conducive to having some knowledge of what I was doing. He said, "I'm a cop and even I don't carry off duty." I asked him, "Do you like being defenseless out in public?" He said it was a bother to carry around the extra weight. I asked, "So why carry now?" He said it was part of his job. We went through all the same old tired "What ifs" and I answered them all with questions of my own. When he finally suggested that he thought some guys might carry just to look tough, I told him that insults were an end to the conversation and he tried to recover by saying, "Well, not you specifically, you don't need to get sensitive" so I asked, "Is that why YOU became a cop, to look tough?" He looked kind of pissed then I said, "Fair is fair, you fired first," and I chuckled a little to lighten the mood which seemed to work. At one point, he started telling me that he had a RIGHT and duty to stop anyone and ask questions. I said, "Would I have a right to refuse to answer his questions?" He said, "Technically, except you would have to tell who you are." I asked if that was state law. He said yes. I asked, "Does Missouri statute require you to detain me for a specific articulable crime before requiring me to identify myself," to which he said no. I said," I recommend you brush up on the law. Do you read all statutes and ordinances for the jurisdictions that you work in." Of course he said yes so I said, "Then it must be a memory issue," and I quoted him the statutes by number and text and offered to let him view them on my iPhone, which he declined. He said,"You seem to be well versed in the law." I said, "Would you expect less from an intelligent citizen who knows that he will be questioned occasionally by law enforcement officers for a legal activity?" He said, "Then why do it?" to which I replied, "Do you do everything you do because it makes everyone else around you happy?" I knew I had out-"alpha-dogged" him when he pulled out that he was being assigned to DEA as a way to bring up his street cred. I congratulated him and told him I would be happy to leave and that I would follow up with management to clarify the issue and I thanked him for his time, shook his hand and walked off!!! lol... That was a little risky because he did not dismiss me EXPLICITLY but he inferred it by shaking my hand and nodding as I began to move away. He had also earlier informed me that failure to stop on a "ped check" was reasonable suspicion, just like failing to pull over in your car. They can stop you any time. One thing: He never asked for my name or ID. He knew (we knew) I was in charge of the interview. Next time I see him, I might resort to the "Am I being detained?" stonewall... but it was kind of fun knowing I did not HAVE to answer his questions. And 98% of my half of the conversation was questions. That is the way to control the conversation. CheckPointUSA on youtube taught me that. The worst part was that my phone battery died when I hit record on the video cam. I knew it was low when I left the house... lesson learned... I have been prepared about 30 different times over the last few weeks when I have seen LEO's about but none have approached me... until my phone died... lol... this would have been fun to hear I sent an email to Walmart corporate. I already read a previous response from Walmart on another thread, a confusing response. Corporate policy says it is ok if it is legal... unless the manager says so. Way to be clear... we will see what I get.
Make sure to go after 9pm if you wish to see the deputy. DON'T mention this incident or he may accuse you of trying to cause trouble because you already know the policy (according to him and the asst manager)
