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Thread: Help! CZ-75B or Berreta M9 for OC....

  1. #1
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    Hey everyone!

    I've been following this website for about 3 or 4 months now and finally registered...

    I'm turning 21 in about 6 months, I live in Washington state, and because of my preference of pistol (full size, steel, exposed hammer, single action)and my relitively small size, I've decided that when I am of age, I will be carrying openly (while having a cpl).

    As you can tell by the title, I'm having a little trouble deciding which would be better for me while open carrying, the CZ 75B (da/sa or sa only) or a Berreta M9.

    I prefer and feel more comfortable with the CZ hands down....It is cheaper, the sights can be changed,the trigger isa good bitnicer in both sa and da, it fits my hand just ever so slightly better, and probably the biggest factor, I can carry it cocked and locked...

    The M9 feels just fine in my hand and I don't mind the price either, but having to fire the first shot in that extremely long, heavy DA mode just isn't at all appealing...

    So it sounds like a pretty easy decision so far right? Well, here is where I start going back and forth... I can't seem tofindany reputable retention holsters for the CZ and being as I plan to open carry, something like a SERPA seems pretty important to me. The Berreta of course, has a ton of holsters available...

    Should I get the CZ and not worry so much about active retention or should I get the M9 and learn to deal with the ginormous DA pull?

    What's a guy to do???


    ps I moved this thread here after not getting any replys on the handgun page...

  2. #2
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    The Beretta will be harder to conceal. If that is a factor, I would go CZ. Both are fine weapons.
    Dave

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    I would go with the M9/92FS.....but I am very partial to those pistols. Practice enough (like anyone who carries should) and the DA pull will not even be an issue at all. If you do decide to go the M9/92FS route, you can order a 92D (DAO version of the 92) hammer spring and install it in your M9. It considerably reduces the DA pull and is completely dependable. Good luck.....

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    Regular Member WinchesterModel12's Avatar
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    i vote for the M9
    If guns kill people......then all of mine are defective........ UNCLE TED

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    That's a tough one.

    There are no main holster companies making a retention holster for the CZ. I was sure there must of been but nope. At least what I could find while doing a quick search. There are many holsters but notonethat isretention II or III.

    So, what's more important - the gun or the holster? That's your choice.

    Since this will be your first gun (OC or not). It's important to remember you'll be using this as your target range gun too. Which one do you like shooting? The DA trigger can be overcome after time and practice.

    I don't know your experience level but I'll assume it's relatively new - it's one thing to have a pistol on your hip - it's another to be able to shoot it well (under pressure). With that said, practice practice when you can. Target shooting and also incorporating the use of your retention holster.

    Life is full of compromises - which one will you compromise? The gun or holster.

    I haveread that the CZ may work in the Beretta holsters but I'm not convinced for the hard plastic - it seems it may for leather holsters as it gives more. For an OC or CC holster - how important is getting it in retention? Is it a must? Then the answer is a bit clear for you.

    Hope this helps. Regardless of which one - practice!


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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum,

    - One thing to also consider between an M-9 (92FS) and the CZ-75B is that one has a hammer drop safety (92FS) and the other is Cocked and Locked like a 1911 (75B). Yes you can manually lower the hammer on the 75B, but then your going to carry it revolver style (DA 1st shot / no safety engaged) - and visa- Your going drop the hammer each time the safety is engaged with the 92FS. Both have their merits, both are fine handguns. Each has a little different mechanics, and that is something to be aware of, think about, and consider. What is your personal style, method of carry, method of draw and engage. Take your time and put good thought into both.

    - My wife has a 84FS, and she loves it

    - I have a CZ75B that was my carry gun for many moons - I love it too.

    - I been thinking about getting a 92FS to compliment my wife's Beretta, and depending on scenario and mood, sometimes i like cocked and locked, other times i like hammer down on safe... really just depends.

    - I'll bet in the long run, you'll end up with both, and love both equally - hehe - Congrats on buying a sweet pistol (or five).

    - Both are excellent choices, you will love either.

    - The long hard pull on the Beretta is as an intentional safety feature, the CZ goes for a smoother lighter pull in order to acquire a faster, more accurate first shot. The Beretta will helpmanage your safety and you'll have to train your way to a more accurate first shot. Compare, the CZ will be an easier accurate first shot, but you'll have to train a little more on attention to safety, as the CZ, though double action, treats it's mechanics as if it was a 1911. My comments regarding "safety" areadressing a stressful situation, where fine motor skills and jittery reactions (etc.)may be an issue, and your finger is on the trigger (or indexed next to it depending), safety off, esentially ready to fireat an enemy combatant.

    - As for the holster, and weather or not to choose a gunbased onholster availability is a very personal choice. Personally, i choose the firearm, and then holster. However, i likelower retention rigs, and focus more on placement and awareness, some will dispute that and have their own philosophy. So, in the end, it comes down to your personal skill, style and philosophy, but over all, sounds like your looking at a "win win" your choices so far are all top notch quality. A little training will put you ahead of the game with either.

    Bat


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    i would not trust a cz pistol as far as i could throw it.

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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    Bravo_Sierra wrote:
    i would not trust a cz pistol as far as i could throw it.

    The ONLY time mine has ever had problems was with a crappy set of bottom shelf rounds that frankly would not cycle any 9mm auto reliably.

    - Short of that, i have received complete reliability from my CZ-75B and havenever hadreservations using it as my defensive firearm.

    - I'd be curious what brings you to that conclusion. In comparison, the US military had an issue with the M9s slides cracking. The reputable Glock has had issues with damaged rails, the Colts had a small period of quality issues, I have seen Sigs that were rendered inoperable from springs breaking, seen an AK47 dead locked shut. Seen a Ruger .44 Mag with a stretched top strap (prolonged abuse with uber hot rounds), seen other revolversfail from either breakage or primer setback. my M-14 once threw it's extractor out along with the empty shell, seen an M-16A2 rifles toss the barrel loose (cracked retaining ring), etc. etc. etc. ... been shooting for most my life, and i can tell you... with100% conviction ... no gun is perfect - period.One can play in to the "perfect gun" fantasy attheir own risk. Some are worse than others - yes true - but most major brands are going to operate respectfully reliable. The only truth out there, is that you are responsible for your own safety, that means knowing your firearm, how to manage it if it fails, and how to deal with a threat in the event your firearm breaks when you need it most.

    No insults intended here - just my personal experience being expressed.

    Bat

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    Oldkim and Batousaii ,

    Very nice replies and itseems it comes down to.......

    Personal preference lol......

    Oldkim (and anyone else), IS active retention THAT important when open carrying?? I'm sure I would feel a little safer with something like a SERPA, but is a friction fit holster ok too??

    As yall know, I'm new to this, so I guess I don't really know the standard in holster retention for open carry....

    If it's not, then I'll most likely lean toward the CZ in a plastic friction holster from like bladetech, but if active retention is something that you really should have for open carry, then I'll probably just get the M9...

    And BTW, has anyone looked at the newer M9A1 vs the older M9? IMHO the newer M9 is one sexy pistol.....

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    I am still kinda new here myself but I tend to look at holsters like this:

    a level 3 retention holster takes longer for me and anyone else trying to unholster my pistol.

    A level 2 holster takes someone else more time, but not really me (serpas have that clip right where your triggier finger is "straight and off the trigger until you intend to fire")

    Any other holster makes it easy for anyone (including myself, but more so others) to grab my pistol.

    Thus I personally belive that a level 2 holster is the best bet. Again that is a matter of personal preference.

    However any little advantage I can get, no matter how big or small will always help. I see that as an advantage (level 2 holsters) personally.
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
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    ramper50@hotmail.com wrote:

    And BTW, has anyone looked at the newer M9A1 vs the older M9? IMHO the newer M9 is one sexy pistol.....
    M9A1 is a very cool edition, but you are going to be hard pressed to find one. and if you do, it is going to cost a pretty penny. It will also limit your holster options due to the rail. If you are dead set on getting a 92 variant with a rail, you can also get a Vertec model, or a soon to be released 92A1. The 9x series of pistols, to me anyways, is about as good looking as it gets, with 1911's in a close second.

    Heres one of mine.......one of the best shooting smoothest actioned pistols I have owned. Oldkim has seen this one in action


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    ramper50@hotmail.com wrote:
    Oldkim and Batousaii ,

    Very nice replies and itseems it comes down to.......

    Personal preference lol......

    Oldkim (and anyone else), IS active retention THAT important when open carrying?? I'm sure I would feel a little safer with something like a SERPA, but is a friction fit holster ok too??

    As yall know, I'm new to this, so I guess I don't really know the standard in holster retention for open carry....

    If it's not, then I'll most likely lean toward the CZ in a plastic friction holster from like bladetech, but if active retention is something that you really should have for open carry, then I'll probably just get the M9...

    And BTW, has anyone looked at the newer M9A1 vs the older M9? IMHO the newer M9 is one sexy pistol.....
    I'd start out with the M9. More common, good caliber, easy to find parts... and your trigger complaints will lessen with practice and break-in. And if it's still not comfortable to you, you could pay a Gunsmith a few bucks to lessen it.

    My strict advice is, that since it is an exposed barrel... OIL OIL OIL.

    [EDIT: My 92FS is one of the two pistols I own that I will OC.]
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    I carry a Beretta 92FS. Personally I do not mind the first shot. I would go with the Beretta, but I am bias.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    m9
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    CZ, without reservation. I conceal-carried a clone of the CZ-75, as my first carry pistol. Loved it. Circumstances are the only reason I no longer own it. I have no experience with the Beretta, except handling a friends at the range once upon a time. Seemed overly large and heavy for only being a 9mm.

    And I will echo Col. Coopers' sentiment on DA - a solution to a non-existent problem.
    I hate them. I'd go with the SA CZ-75B. One of the finest pistols ever, in my opinion. I'm a .45 man, so I'd consider stepping up to the CZ-97, but thats tangential. Good luck!

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    The ultimate solution: Get a Glock!

    Seriously, though. I'd get what you shoot best with, especially what you shoot best with in double action. You could carry with the hammer back, I trust Berettas with the hammer back, they won't go BANG unless you pull the trigger. Overall, though, I'd say that what you shoot best with takes precedence over all other factors. There's bound to be some sort of holster out there for the CZ. A leather holster with a thumb break retention mechanism is better than an open top for retention, though situational awareness is the best retention method, IMHO. I carried in an open top leather holster for a bit, just kept it around the 2 o'clock position on my belt and maintained situational awareness.
    Quote Originally Posted by SayWhat View Post

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    So, the pistol shouldn't be comprimised over the lack of active retention holsters... But to be perfectly honest, the thought of not having active retention still somewhat scares me... So what about a third option?

    I'm a 1911 fan. I've shot one really nice springfield and a couple lower grade ones... When I first shot the nice Springfield (I think it was an older edition trp or something) I was IN LOVE... The recoiland action seemed soooo smooth (compared to the glock 17 in 9mm and the HK USP .40 that I shot before that),it fit my hand pretty well, andI love the looks, safeties, and operation of the firearm...I knew what I wanted.

    My next trip to the range though, I only had the opertunity to try out a Rock island and a seemingly mid grade Kimber 1911 (note that these were very heavily used range guns) and they just seemed overly harsh with lots of recoil (From an accurate follow-up shot point of view at least...). At that point I decided to take another look at 9mm, except this time in the CZ (which I liked a lot and here we are...)

    So I guess my question is: Could I get something like a Springfield Mil-spec and make it shoot smoothly enough to be comfortable with as far as a carry gun goes? Is it as simple as tuning via recoil springand mainspring? Or would it be just too much work to make a 1911 in the $600 range shoot a little less harsh?

    Ps I've looked at some of the 1911's out there in 9mm and I'm pretty sure I don't really like what's available as far as that goes....



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    *Deleted by Sylvia*


    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    ramper50@hotmail.com wrote:
    So, the pistol shouldn't be comprimised over the lack of active retention holsters... But to be perfectly honest, the thought of not having active retention still somewhat scares me... So what about a third option?
    Safariland makes two SLS holsters for the 75B.

    Here is one of them.

    http://safariland.com/DutyGear/product.aspx?pid=6280
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

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    Sylvia: Settle down!

    I'm meerly suggesting that if I were able to get a smooth shooting 1911 for a reasonable price, that it would be a very viable option for me...

    How am I trolling? (I'm still not quite sure I even know what that means...) And note that when I referenced 9mm in my last post, I was firing POLYMER guns.... I know that it wasn't the 9mmor .40round that I didn't really like, it was the top heavy poly guns, which is why I stated in my first post that I wanted an all steel pistol...

    When I said That I didn't like what was available in 9mm 1911's, I meant just that... I simply don't see a 1911 in 9mm that I find particularly appealing.... The fact that I was looking at them in the first placeshould say something right?

    joeroket: Thanks for a helpful post (slight sarcasm towards you, sylvia)... For some reason I can't get my computer to load the holsters.com page. (Comm here in the AOR isn't exactly the best lol)... How much are they, do you or anyone else here have any experience with them?

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    ramper50@hotmail.com wrote:
    Sylvia: Settle down!

    I'm meerly suggesting that if I were able to get a smooth shooting 1911 for a reasonable price, that it would be a very viable option for me...

    How am I trolling? (I'm still not quite sure I even know what that means...) And note that when I referenced 9mm in my last post, I was firing POLYMER guns.... I know that it wasn't the 9mmor .40round that I didn't really like, it was the top heavy poly guns, which is why I stated in my first post that I wanted an all steel pistol...

    When I said That I didn't like what was available in 9mm 1911's, I meant just that... I simply don't see a 1911 in 9mm that I find particularly appealing.... The fact that I was looking at them in the first placeshould say something right?

    joeroket: Thanks for a helpful post (slight sarcasm towards you, sylvia)... For some reason I can't get my computer to load the holsters.com page. (Comm here in the AOR isn't exactly the best lol)... How much are they, do you or anyone else here have any experience with them?
    Safariland is one of the top retention holster manufactures in the world. The majority of officers carry in a 070 level 3 or 4 holster.

    The one I posted for the CZ is around $120. It is pretty expensive but it is a top rated retention holster and has a manufacture that will back it up. The other that they make is a 1 inch drop version of the same holster.

    Planetoptics.com usually has some of the lowest prices for holsters. I have not bought one from them but I have bought plenty of telescope components from them and they have pretty decent service. ( don't ask why they sell holsters, I don't have the answer to that one)

    http://www.opticsplanet.net/safarila...280-90-61.html
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Bravo_Sierra wrote:
    i would not trust a cz pistol as far as i could throw it.


    Spoken like a man who has either never owned one, shot one, or both. I have an SP-01 Tactical, and I am not alone when I say that it's a better buy than an "M-9".

    With a 20 round capacity (19+1), that plus a reload (19) gives you the best part of a box of ammo on your belt. I have about 8,000 rounds through mine and it has yet to malfunction.

    The only downside it it is a touch heavy but for OC but I carry mine in a Bladetech with no issues.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    My personal pererence is for the CZ75 , my first CCW pistol was my Pre B CZ75 I brought back from Germany . I just like the ergonomics better than the M9 , both are quite reliable . Another factor for me was the cocked n locked ability which ironically had me getting a Taurus PT99AF .

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    I have shot a handful of CZ's and would not call them anything other than reliable and accurate. They are a good design, with that said, they don't fit my hand right, so I don't own one.

    I do carry an M9, and shoot it often. Out of the box, the DA trigger pull is offensive. What you need is to go to http://www.olhasso.com/PS/parts.htm and buy a "D" spring from him. It will put the trigger pull weight at the same range as the DAO version of the Beretta 92. It makes a HUGE difference. You can also go to Wolff gunsprings and get the 16lb hammer spring. Replacing the spring is unbelievably easy. If you want it smoother, there are several websites that show how to smooth out the hammer and/or sear. Once you get a spring, sit in front of the tv and practice the DA trigger pull. It becomes instinctual in no time.

    It is big, but I've found it really easy to carry. Lots of holsters available, but if you go with a CZ, I don't think you will be disappointed either.

  25. #25
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Norman wrote:
    I have shot a handful of CZ's and would not call them anything other than reliable and accurate. They are a good design, with that said, they don't fit my hand right, so I don't own one.

    I do carry an M9, and shoot it often. Out of the box, the DA trigger pull is offensive. What you need is to go to http://www.olhasso.com/PS/parts.htm and buy a "D" spring from him. It will put the trigger pull weight at the same range as the DAO version of the Beretta 92. It makes a HUGE difference. You can also go to Wolff gunsprings and get the 16lb hammer spring. Replacing the spring is unbelievably easy. If you want it smoother, there are several websites that show how to smooth out the hammer and/or sear. Once you get a spring, sit in front of the tv and practice the DA trigger pull. It becomes instinctual in no time.

    It is big, but I've found it really easy to carry. Lots of holsters available, but if you go with a CZ, I don't think you will be disappointed either.
    Especially since you won't have to do all the modifications that the M-9 seem to require.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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