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Thread: Well at least a searchable online database wasn't put up yet for VA..

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    Regular Member Riana's Avatar
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    :shock:

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Well, they've already moved this to the NY forum, and I suppose rightly so.

    However, FYI, there is no "yet" for Virginia, at least under current State law, the only central database of CHP holders is specifically protected from public disclosure, under the CHP statute 18.2-308.

    Buried in Paragraph K, it says: "The State Police shall withhold from public disclosure permittee information submitted to the State Police for purposes of entry into the Virginia Criminal Information Network..."

    The information is still available from the Court Clerk of each jurisdiction. Closing this gaping whole in personal privacy is one of the next big legislative goals in Virginia.

    TFred


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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    I would bet money that there are some VERY high-profile people (mayors, senators, representatives, etc) with NY permits that are not on this database for "security" reasons...


    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    TFred wrote:
    Well, they've already moved this to the NY forum, and I suppose rightly so.

    However, FYI, there is no "yet" for Virginia, at least under current State law, the only central database of CHP holders is specifically protected from public disclosure, under the CHP statute 18.2-308.

    Buried in Paragraph K, it says: "The State Police shall withhold from public disclosure permittee information submitted to the State Police for purposes of entry into the Virginia Criminal Information Network..."

    The information is still available from the Court Clerk of each jurisdiction. Closing this gaping whole in personal privacy is one of the next big legislative goals in Virginia.

    TFred
    If there is a possibility that a person, or group of persons, may gather info on CHP holders on a locality by locality basis then there is still a possibility that said information could be compiled into a searchable database.

    There is still a "yet."

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Yet? It already happened, doesn't anyone remember the Roanoke Times putting it online? Luckily it got taken down quickly, but certainly exposed a few people in the interim.

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    zoom6zoom wrote:
    Yet? It already happened, doesn't anyone remember the Roanoke Times putting it online? Luckily it got taken down quickly, but certainly exposed a few people in the interim.
    Was that a list only, or searchable site like this? Was it on the Roanoke Times page or its own domain dedicated solely for it?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Curtis wrote:
    If there is a possibility that a person, or group of persons, may gather info on CHP holders on a locality by locality basis then there is still a possibility that said information could be compiled into a searchable database.

    There is still a "yet."
    Theoretically, yes, but practically, no. Each jurisdiction would have their own policy and format for providing this information. There are around 123 different Circuit Courts in the state of Virginia. It would cost a small fortune to collect, computerize and set up a method to disseminate this information in its entirety. I have not heard anyone report on how successful attempts are to go to a clerk and request their whole database. That might be interesting to try in various jurisdictions, just to know for future lobbying use.

    The General Assembly made it very clear in 2009 (unanimous votes in both houses) that they were not in favor of mass publication of the information, and we came the closest yet this year to closing the rest of that gaping hole. You can thank Senator Marsh and his Death Committee who saw the writing (votes) on the wall, and had to cheat as his only way to stop it this year.

    TFred

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    Publication of such in Pennsylvania would also be illegal. 18 Pa. C.S. § 6111(g)(3.1) states: " Any person, licensed dealer, licensed manufacturer or licensed importer who knowÂ*ingly and intentionally obtains or furnishes information collected or maintained pursuant to section 6109 [licenses] or any purpose other than compliance with this chapter [sale or transfer of firearms] or who knowingly or inÂ*tentionally disseminates, publishes or otherwise makes available such information to any person other than the subject of the information commits a felony of the third degree."

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    TFred wrote:
    Curtis wrote:
    If there is a possibility that a person, or group of persons, may gather info on CHP holders on a locality by locality basis then there is still a possibility that said information could be compiled into a searchable database.

    There is still a "yet."
    Theoretically, yes, but practically, no. Each jurisdiction would have their own policy and format for providing this information. There are around 123 different Circuit Courts in the state of Virginia. It would cost a small fortune to collect, computerize and set up a method to disseminate this information in its entirety. I have not heard anyone report on how successful attempts are to go to a clerk and request their whole database. That might be interesting to try in various jurisdictions, just to know for future lobbying use.

    The General Assembly made it very clear in 2009 (unanimous votes in both houses) that they were not in favor of mass publication of the information, and we came the closest yet this year to closing the rest of that gaping hole. You can thank Senator Marsh and his Death Committee who saw the writing (votes) on the wall, and had to cheat as his only way to stop it this year.

    TFred
    State Police already have the list. In most Courts all you would need to do is to go the counter and ask to see the file, as it is public record. Now publication of the file or list is another thing totally.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    kenny wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    Curtis wrote:
    If there is a possibility that a person, or group of persons, may gather info on CHP holders on a locality by locality basis then there is still a possibility that said information could be compiled into a searchable database.

    There is still a "yet."
    Theoretically, yes, but practically, no. Each jurisdiction would have their own policy and format for providing this information. There are around 123 different Circuit Courts in the state of Virginia. It would cost a small fortune to collect, computerize and set up a method to disseminate this information in its entirety. I have not heard anyone report on how successful attempts are to go to a clerk and request their whole database. That might be interesting to try in various jurisdictions, just to know for future lobbying use.

    The General Assembly made it very clear in 2009 (unanimous votes in both houses) that they were not in favor of mass publication of the information, and we came the closest yet this year to closing the rest of that gaping hole. You can thank Senator Marsh and his Death Committee who saw the writing (votes) on the wall, and had to cheat as his only way to stop it this year.

    TFred
    State Police already have the list. In most Courts all you would need to do is to go the counter and ask to see the file, as it is public record. Now publication of the file or list is another thing totally.
    Actuall, no it isn't. There is nothing in Virginia law which prohibits publication of at least some of the information about CHP holders. That's the whole point of the problem. Several newspapers used to routinely publish names and streets of new CHP recipients, and there have been recent reports tht one is still doing it. Nothing in the law has changed recently concerning this practice.

    TFred

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    This person finally posted an email contact, but dismissively says "don't expect a response."

    I emailed them anyway, asking "why not post the names and addresses of violent released felons because they are the real danger."

    Yes, under New York State Law license holder information is a public record, but what does this person think they're accomplishing?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Overtaxed wrote:
    This person finally posted an email contact, but dismissively says "don't expect a response."

    I emailed them anyway, asking "why not post the names and addresses of violent released felons because they are the real danger."

    Yes, under New York State Law license holder information is a public record, but what does this person think they're accomplishing?
    I suspect it's the same thing that the anti-gun press here in Virginia thinks they are accomplishing. And they are somewhat successful at it too. By regularly publishing the names and addresses of permit holders, they do in fact, dissuade some people from getting a permit.

    Keep in mind there are several camps of people who get permits. Some folks are under threat from domestic situations, and are literally in hiding from people who would do them harm, but also want to have the means to protect themselves discretely (or in the case of NY, legally, since a permit is required to carry in any form). By publishing this personal information, these media outlets directly threaten the very lives of these victims. Nice work, huh?

    What has happened in many states, my state of Virginia included, people who don't want to play the "public information game" opt for Utah permits, which are honored in 30+ states. Utah keeps their names private.

    The question I would like to ask an anti-gun person who publishes such data is this: If a person has already decided to buy and carry a gun*, would you rather they have, or not have a concealed carry permit? I suspect their brain would just lock up, rather than be able to actually process the question and provide an answer.

    *Again, this applies to Virginia, where un-permitted Open Carry is perfectly legal.

    TFred


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