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Thread: Public Hunting Areas

  1. #1
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    I have been looking for a place to target shoot near my home, and I wondered about the public hunting areas. I found a sign with the nunber 299.927 State parks and recreation areas ; unlawful acts, but when I searched the MCL, it came up with nothing.

    There are several areas near my home marked with signs "Public Hunting Area", And I was wondering where to find thew laws concerning these areas. There is a white sign, a full page of rules with blue lettering on it. As I was reading it there was a scction that reads as follows : 299.927 State parks and recreation areas: unlawful acts. Rule 27 (b). To carry or have in his or her posession a firearm unless unloaded in both barrel and magazine, to shoot an air gun, gas gun, spring loaded gun or slingshot etc....

    Doesnt preemption cover this? If not why not? Where do I find laws about these areas? Can I target shoot there? CPL or OC legal? Do you have to wear orange?

    Sorry to ask so many questions all at once, but you know how the laws can be.



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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    i dont have any cites,but the DNR guys at the rose lake office told me its legal as long as its at a clearly identifiable artificially constructed target.

    since they told me that,ive only been out to the rose lake range once or twice,choosing to instead shoot on the adjacent public hunting area.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Ive seen these areas near the pit in lapeer as well. But the pit is 50 miles from my house. Still cheaper than range fees, but I would love to drive 10 minutes instead of 2 hours. I just want to know the ins and outs of using them legally.

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    In State Parks and State Recreational Areas, target shooting is prohibited except in designated areas. Here are the relevant admin rules:



    http://www.state.mi.us/orr/emi/admin...NE&RngHigh=

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    From what I have been able to find for Target Shooting on State Land:

    State Game Areas: Yes, Identifiable Target, Good Backstop (recommendations)

    State Forests: Yes, Identifiable Target, Good Backstop (recommendations)

    State Recreation Areas: No, excepton adesignated shooting range

    State Parks: No, excepton adesignated shooting range


    http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10363_10913-31687--,00.html

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    I think that the area in question is a state game area, based on the public hunting sign, but how do I KNOW which one Im in?

    What about the sign I mensioned? It said that mere posession was illegal, so Im getting mixed messages here. Would preemption make this sign invalid?

    Where do CPLs come in to play in all this.

    Public lands, hunting and hunting areas are a totally new subject for me.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Click here to get state hunting lands for your county
    http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7...0319--,00.html

    Or here: (Actually better)
    http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7...00.html#picker

    When you click on the pdf file for the specific map, I believe the rules are on the second page of the pdf file.
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    I ran across the following in reading one of the links. Its the same thing that I posted from the sign I saw at the site. It says that you cant have a gun in a state park or recreation area. I was under the impression that you could. Could someone clear this up for me?

    R 299.927 State parks and recreation areas; unlawful acts.
    Rule 27. In addition to the unlawful acts specified in R 299.922, in
    state parks and state recreation areas, it is unlawful for a person or
    persons to do any of the following: ) To carry or have in his or her possession a firearm, unless unloaded
    in both barrel and magazine; to shoot an air gun, gas gun, spring-loaded gun,
    or slingshot; or to shoot with a bow and arrow or crossbow, except
    during established hunting seasons on lands designated open to hunting
    under the authority of an order issued under sections 40107 and 40113a of
    1994 PA 451, MCL 324.40107 and 324.40113a. This subdivision does not apply
    to a target range or archery range officially established by the
    department or to an officially sanctioned field trial. A person shall
    not engage in target shooting, except on designated shooting ranges.


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    stainless1911 wrote:
    I ran across the following in reading one of the links. Its the same thing that I posted from the sign I saw at the site. It says that you cant have a gun in a state park or recreation area. I was under the impression that you could. Could someone clear this up for me?

    R 299.927 State parks and recreation areas; unlawful acts.
    Rule 27. In addition to the unlawful acts specified in R 299.922, in
    state parks and state recreation areas, it is unlawful for a person or
    persons to do any of the following: ) To carry or have in his or her possession a firearm, unless unloaded
    in both barrel and magazine; to shoot an air gun, gas gun, spring-loaded gun,
    or slingshot; or to shoot with a bow and arrow or crossbow, except
    during established hunting seasons on lands designated open to hunting
    under the authority of an order issued under sections 40107 and 40113a of
    1994 PA 451, MCL 324.40107 and 324.40113a. This subdivision does not apply
    to a target range or archery range officially established by the
    department or to an officially sanctioned field trial. A person shall
    not engage in target shooting, except on designated shooting ranges.
    Old rules that have been recently preempted.Lots of the information on the DNRE site has outdated rules posted. Takes time to rescan new maps, etc. with rule updates.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    So these rules are invalid? So what do I say to the officer who confronts me with these laws, trying to take my gun and give me a ticket?

    I called the DNR office in Southfeild, and they said that they would not allow target shooting, but said nothing about posession.

  11. #11
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    See #6 that I have highlighted below.

    IANAL, but my take:

    CPL Holders can possess Pistols in State Parks and Recreation Areas outside of hunting seasons established for those parks/areas

    http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7...1687--,00.html

    (All state parks and recreation areas are closed to hunting from April 1 through September 14, except in areas designated open during the earlyCanada goose season and spring wild turkey season).



    NATURAL RESOURCES AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION ACT (EXCERPT)
    Act 451 of 1994

    324.504 Department of natural resources; rules for protection and preservation of lands and property; duties of department; report; applicability of subsections (2) and (3) to commercial forestland; certain rules prohibited; orders; violation as civil infraction; fine.

    Sec. 504.

    (1) The department shall promulgate rules to protect and preserve lands and other property under its control from depredation, damage, or destruction or wrongful or improper use or occupancy.
    (2) Subject to subsection (4), the department shall do all of the following:

    (a) Keep land under its control open to hunting unless the department determines that the land should be closed to hunting because of public safety, fish or wildlife management, or homeland security concerns or as otherwise required by law.

    (b) Manage land under its control to support and promote hunting opportunities to the extent authorized by law.

    (c) Manage land under its control to prevent any net decrease in the acreage of such land that is open to hunting.

    (3) Subject to subsection (4), by April 1, 2010 and each year thereafter, the department shall submit to the legislature a report that includes all of the following:

    (a) The location and acreage of land under its control previously open to hunting that the department closed to hunting during the 1-year period ending the preceding March 1, together with the reasons for the closure.

    (b) The location and acreage of land under its control previously closed to hunting that the department opened to hunting during the 1-year period ending the preceding March 1 to compensate for land closed to hunting under subdivision (a).

    (4) Subsections (2) and (3) do not apply to commercial forestland as defined in section 51101.

    (5) This section does not authorize the department to promulgate a rule that applies to commercial fishing except as otherwise provided by law.

    (6) The department shall not promulgate or enforce a rule that prohibits an individual who is licensed or exempt from licensure under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435, from carrying a pistol in compliance with that act, whether concealed or otherwise, on property under the control of the department.


    (7) The department shall issue orders necessary to implement rules promulgated under this section. These orders shall be effective upon posting.

    (8) A person who violates a rule promulgated under this section or an order issued under this section is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be ordered to pay a civil fine of not more than $500.00.


    History: 1994, Act 451, Eff. Mar. 30, 1995 ;-- Am. 1996, Act 171, Imd. Eff. Apr. 18, 1996 ;-- Am. 2004, Act 130, Imd. Eff. June 3, 2004 ;-- Am. 2009, Act 47, Imd. Eff. June 18, 2009
    Popular Name: Act 451
    Popular Name: NREPA
    Admin Rule: R 299.291a et seq. and R 299.921 et seq. of the Michigan Administrative Code.
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  12. #12
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Wow... my bad. I didn't even notice they had the "old" rules on the link I provided. PDinDetroit is correct, though. There was even an Attorney General Opinion under the old rules (Mike Cox) who said it needed to be unloaded. The legislature then changed it to what PD cited.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    PDinDetroit wrote:
    See #6 that I have highlighted below.

    IANAL, but my take:

    CPL Holders can possess Pistols in State Parks and Recreation Areas outside of hunting seasons established for those parks/areas
    (6) The department shall not promulgate or enforce a rule that prohibits an individual who is licensed or exempt from licensure under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435, from carrying a pistol in compliance with that act, whether concealed or otherwise, on property under the control of the department.
    #6 applies to OC as well. There are two supporting points:

    [Red] The MCL range covers the LTP license to carry (28.422).

    [Blue] "otherwise" means openly.

  14. #14
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    CoonDog wrote:
    PDinDetroit wrote:
    See #6 that I have highlighted below.

    IANAL, but my take:

    CPL Holders can possess Pistols in State Parks and Recreation Areas outside of hunting seasons established for those parks/areas
    (6) The department shall not promulgate or enforce a rule that prohibits an individual who is licensed or exempt from licensure under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435, from carrying a pistol in compliance with that act, whether concealed or otherwise, on property under the control of the department.
    #6 applies to OC as well. There are two supporting points:

    [Red] The MCL range covers the LTP license to carry (28.422).

    [Blue] "otherwise" means openly.
    It appears you are correct sir due to 28.422 and the LTP (Pistol Purchase Permit). I have not seen anything from the DNR to date that appears to confirm their understanding of this as all references in the Hunting Guides refer to CPL Holders and not LTP Holders.
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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    PDinDetroit wrote:
    See #6 that I have highlighted below.

    IANAL, but my take:

    CPL Holders can possess Pistols in State Parks and Recreation Areas outside of hunting seasons established for those parks/areas

    http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7...1687--,00.html

    (All state parks and recreation areas are closed to hunting from April 1 through September 14, except in areas designated open during the earlyCanada goose season and spring wild turkey season).



    NATURAL RESOURCES AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION ACT (EXCERPT)
    Act 451 of 1994

    324.504 Department of natural resources; rules for protection and preservation of lands and property; duties of department; report; applicability of subsections (2) and (3) to commercial forestland; certain rules prohibited; orders; violation as civil infraction; fine.

    Sec. 504.

    (1) The department shall promulgate rules to protect and preserve lands and other property under its control from depredation, damage, or destruction or wrongful or improper use or occupancy.
    (2) Subject to subsection (4), the department shall do all of the following:

    (a) Keep land under its control open to hunting unless the department determines that the land should be closed to hunting because of public safety, fish or wildlife management, or homeland security concerns or as otherwise required by law.

    (b) Manage land under its control to support and promote hunting opportunities to the extent authorized by law.

    (c) Manage land under its control to prevent any net decrease in the acreage of such land that is open to hunting.

    (3) Subject to subsection (4), by April 1, 2010 and each year thereafter, the department shall submit to the legislature a report that includes all of the following:

    (a) The location and acreage of land under its control previously open to hunting that the department closed to hunting during the 1-year period ending the preceding March 1, together with the reasons for the closure.

    (b) The location and acreage of land under its control previously closed to hunting that the department opened to hunting during the 1-year period ending the preceding March 1 to compensate for land closed to hunting under subdivision (a).

    (4) Subsections (2) and (3) do not apply to commercial forestland as defined in section 51101.

    (5) This section does not authorize the department to promulgate a rule that applies to commercial fishing except as otherwise provided by law.

    (6) The department shall not promulgate or enforce a rule that prohibits an individual who is licensed or exempt from licensure under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435, from carrying a pistol in compliance with that act, whether concealed or otherwise, on property under the control of the department.


    (7) The department shall issue orders necessary to implement rules promulgated under this section. These orders shall be effective upon posting.

    (8) A person who violates a rule promulgated under this section or an order issued under this section is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be ordered to pay a civil fine of not more than $500.00.


    History: 1994, Act 451, Eff. Mar. 30, 1995 ;-- Am. 1996, Act 171, Imd. Eff. Apr. 18, 1996 ;-- Am. 2004, Act 130, Imd. Eff. June 3, 2004 ;-- Am. 2009, Act 47, Imd. Eff. June 18, 2009
    Popular Name: Act 451
    Popular Name: NREPA
    Admin Rule: R 299.291a et seq. and R 299.921 et seq. of the Michigan Administrative Code.
    Not just CPL holders 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435, covers purchase permits, etc. So it basically states if the handgun is legal and you can possess it you are good to go.

    Edit to add: Dang it, I didn't read all the posts, but this reiterates what was said above.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    PDinDetroit wrote:
    It appears you are correct sir due to 28.422 and the LTP (Pistol Purchase Permit). I have not seen anything from the DNR to date that appears to confirm their understanding of this as all references in the Hunting Guides refer to CPL Holders and not LTP Holders.
    Thank-you PDinD. DNR guides, similar to the MSP website, demonstrates someone's summary of the statutes, not the statutes themselves. It is frustrating, however, that these supposed "official" sources of information treat non-CPL carriers as second-class citizens, especially when the relevant statute's wording is clear.

    One future issue may crop up if pending legislation removes the LTP requirement. Without an LTP, will non-CPL carriers no longer be covered under MCL 324.504? Or, will non-CPL "registered" pistol owners become "exempt from licensure" for the purposes of this section?

  17. #17
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    I was wondering about that too.

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