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Thread: New to Missourri

  1. #1
    Regular Member frommycolddeadhands's Avatar
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    Hi all,

    I just recently moved from ND to MO, and I was wondering what the state laws are around here, specifically Open Carry after sundown and Open Carry in a vehicle
    God is the one driving this stagecoach, I'm just riding shotgun.

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    Campaign Veteran ComSec's Avatar
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    state legal but cities can restrict OC

    car carry is fine - your car is a extension of your home, so cities cant stop you

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    ComSec wrote:
    state legal but cities can restrict OC

    car carry is fine - your car is a extension of your home, so cities cant stop you
    CONCEALED car carry is fine as long as you are at least 21 and lawfully entitled to possess the firearm in question, or if you meet the other criteria specified in RSMO 571.030.3. Cities and other jurisdictions can and do restrict openly carried firearms in a vehicle. I dare say that you would NOT want to try to drive through the city of St. Louis with a shotgun in a gun rack in the rear window of a pickup truck.

    frommycoldeadhands - Missouri statutes regarding firearms can be found in Chapter 571 of the Revised Statutes of Missouri: http://www.moga.mo.gov/STATUTES/C571.HTM

    Missouri state law regarding preemption can be found in Chapter 21 (Section 21.750) of the Revised Statutes of Missouri: http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c000-099/0210000750.htm

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    Regular Member frommycolddeadhands's Avatar
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    cshoff wrote:
    ComSec wrote:
    CONCEALED car carry is fine as long as you are at least 21 and lawfully entitled to possess the firearm in question, or if you meet the other criteria specified in RSMO 571.030.3. Cities and other jurisdictions can and do restrict openly carried firearms in a vehicle. I dare say that you would NOT want to try to drive through the city of St. Louis with a shotgun in a gun rack in the rear window of a pickup truck.

    Ok, so just to make sure I got this right: If I simply want to get in my car and drive to Wal Mart or the grocery store, can I have a pistol holstered on my belt in an open carry manner, or do I need to conceal it inside a glove compartment until I get out of the car?
    God is the one driving this stagecoach, I'm just riding shotgun.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Broondog's Avatar
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    cshoff wrote:
    Cities and other jurisdictions can and do restrict openly carried firearms in a vehicle.
    please give a citation for this comment. i know of none so please Show Me.


    I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.
    Jimi Hendrix

    NRA Benefactor Member & 03 FFL

  6. #6
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    frommycolddeadhands wrote:
    cshoff wrote:
    ComSec wrote:
    CONCEALED car carry is fine as long as you are at least 21 and lawfully entitled to possess the firearm in question, or if you meet the other criteria specified in RSMO 571.030.3. Cities and other jurisdictions can and do restrict openly carried firearms in a vehicle. I dare say that you would NOT want to try to drive through the city of St. Louis with a shotgun in a gun rack in the rear window of a pickup truck.

    Ok, so just to make sure I got this right: If I simply want to get in my car and drive to Wal Mart or the grocery store, can I have a pistol holstered on my belt in an open carry manner, or do I need to conceal it inside a glove compartment until I get out of the car?
    I will bold the relevant parts for you:

    Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties. 571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:
    (1) Carries concealed upon or about his or her person
    a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use; or

    .
    .
    .
    3. Subdivisions (1), (5), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section do not apply when the actor is transporting such weapons in a nonfunctioning state or in an unloaded state when ammunition is not readily accessible or when such weapons are not readily accessible. Subdivision (1) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply to any person twenty-one years of age or older transporting a concealable firearm in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, so long as such concealable firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed, nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, or is in his or her dwelling unit or upon premises over which the actor has possession, authority or control, or is traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state. Subdivision (10) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply if the firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed by a person while traversing school premises for the purposes of transporting a student to or from school, or possessed by an adult for the purposes of facilitation of a school-sanctioned firearm-related event.

    If the firearm is concealed (not visible) from outside the vehicle, then you should be good to go.

  7. #7
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Broondog wrote:
    cshoff wrote:
    Cities and other jurisdictions can and do restrict openly carried firearms in a vehicle.
    please give a citation for this comment. i know of none so please Show Me.

    You want to see what? St. Louis City's ordinance against open carry? Or do you want to see the State Statute that only preempts concealed carry of firearms?



  8. #8
    Regular Member Broondog's Avatar
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    frommycolddeadhands wrote:
    cshoff wrote:
    ComSec wrote:
    CONCEALED car carry is fine as long as you are at least 21 and lawfully entitled to possess the firearm in question, or if you meet the other criteria specified in RSMO 571.030.3. Cities and other jurisdictions can and do restrict openly carried firearms in a vehicle. I dare say that you would NOT want to try to drive through the city of St. Louis with a shotgun in a gun rack in the rear window of a pickup truck.

    Ok, so just to make sure I got this right: If I simply want to get in my car and drive to Wal Mart or the grocery store, can I have a pistol holstered on my belt in an open carry manner, or do I need to conceal it inside a glove compartment until I get out of the car?
    as far as i understand the law you may carry any way you see fit inside your vehicle per the MO Castle Doctrine, which makes your vehicle an extension of your home. CCW or OC is fine in your car but if you OC you should be aware of where you are and that areas municipal code about (or not about as the case may be) OC. you can have your pistol velcro'd to the dashboard if you see fit and it would be perfectly legal....maybe not wise, but legal.


    I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.
    Jimi Hendrix

    NRA Benefactor Member & 03 FFL

  9. #9
    Regular Member Broondog's Avatar
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    cshoff wrote:
    Broondog wrote:
    cshoff wrote:
    Cities and other jurisdictions can and do restrict openly carried firearms in a vehicle.
    please give a citation for this comment. i know of none so please Show Me.

    You want to see what? St. Louis City's ordinance against open carry? Or do you want to see the State Statute that only preempts concealed carry of firearms?

    what i want to see is a citation that makes OC inside your vehicle illegal.

    I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.
    Jimi Hendrix

    NRA Benefactor Member & 03 FFL

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    Regular Member usmcbess's Avatar
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    Imkeep my pistol in the seat next to me when i have no passengers.

    I would like to add though if u do have a pistol in your seat, hand, dashboard, lap, etc if you get pulled over dont wait for the cop to walk up and see it yell out the window that our armed so you dont get shot.

  11. #11
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Broondog wrote:
    frommycolddeadhands wrote:
    cshoff wrote:
    ComSec wrote:
    CONCEALED car carry is fine as long as you are at least 21 and lawfully entitled to possess the firearm in question, or if you meet the other criteria specified in RSMO 571.030.3. Cities and other jurisdictions can and do restrict openly carried firearms in a vehicle. I dare say that you would NOT want to try to drive through the city of St. Louis with a shotgun in a gun rack in the rear window of a pickup truck.

    Ok, so just to make sure I got this right: If I simply want to get in my car and drive to Wal Mart or the grocery store, can I have a pistol holstered on my belt in an open carry manner, or do I need to conceal it inside a glove compartment until I get out of the car?
    as far as i understand the law you may carry any way you see fit inside your vehicle per the MO Castle Doctrine, which makes your vehicle an extension of your home. CCW or OC is fine in your car but if you OC you should be aware of where you are and that areas municipal code about (or not about as the case may be) OC. you can have your pistol velcro'd to the dashboard if you see fit and it would be perfectly legal....maybe not wise, but legal.

    Care to cite that law? The Castle Doctrine only extends your right to use force and/or deadly force to a vehicle in which you are lawfully present. It doesn't change local open carry restrictions. The same thing applies to property you own; you don't need a CCW permit to lawfully carry a concealed firearm on property you own in St. Louis City, but you best not walk around your front yard with your openly carried firearm or you will be in violation of City ordinances.

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Broondog wrote:
    cshoff wrote:
    Broondog wrote:
    cshoff wrote:
    Cities and other jurisdictions can and do restrict openly carried firearms in a vehicle.
    please give a citation for this comment. i know of none so please Show Me.

    You want to see what? St. Louis City's ordinance against open carry? Or do you want to see the State Statute that only preempts concealed carry of firearms?

    what i want to see is a citation that makes OC inside your vehicle illegal.
    If a firearm is inside your vehicle, and cannot be seen from the outside, it is not being openly carried. If, however, it is hanging in a gun rack in the rear window, it would be openly carried. So, do you want to see some ordinances from around the state that prohibit open carry?


  13. #13
    Regular Member Broondog's Avatar
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    cshoff wrote:
    Broondog wrote:
    frommycolddeadhands wrote:
    cshoff wrote:
    ComSec wrote:
    CONCEALED car carry is fine as long as you are at least 21 and lawfully entitled to possess the firearm in question, or if you meet the other criteria specified in RSMO 571.030.3. Cities and other jurisdictions can and do restrict openly carried firearms in a vehicle. I dare say that you would NOT want to try to drive through the city of St. Louis with a shotgun in a gun rack in the rear window of a pickup truck.

    Ok, so just to make sure I got this right: If I simply want to get in my car and drive to Wal Mart or the grocery store, can I have a pistol holstered on my belt in an open carry manner, or do I need to conceal it inside a glove compartment until I get out of the car?
    as far as i understand the law you may carry any way you see fit inside your vehicle per the MO Castle Doctrine, which makes your vehicle an extension of your home. CCW or OC is fine in your car but if you OC you should be aware of where you are and that areas municipal code about (or not about as the case may be) OC. you can have your pistol velcro'd to the dashboard if you see fit and it would be perfectly legal....maybe not wise, but legal.

    Care to cite that law? The Castle Doctrine only extends your right to use force and/or deadly force to a vehicle in which you are lawfully present. It doesn't change local open carry restrictions. The same thing applies to property you own; you don't need a CCW permit to lawfully carry a concealed firearm on property you own in St. Louis City, but you best not walk around your front yard with your openly carried firearm or you will be in violation of City ordinances.
    i asked you first but since you feel the need to dodge the question lets take a look at things.

    yep MO Castle Doctrine makes your vehicle an extension of your home. http://www.learntocarry.com/docs/CastleDoctrine.html under 563.011 Sec 2. since carry of any sort is legal on/in property you own OC'ing is legal in your car.

    this also makes OC in your front yard (being on property you own) perfectly legal no matter where it is. cities/towns/villages may only restrict OC on public property or property owned and operated by the govt. if STL City charges you with breaking the law for OC'ing on your own (private) property they would be breaking the law, not the property owner.

    i answered you, your turn.


    I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.
    Jimi Hendrix

    NRA Benefactor Member & 03 FFL

  14. #14
    Regular Member Broondog's Avatar
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    cshoff wrote:
    Broondog wrote:
    cshoff wrote:
    Broondog wrote:
    cshoff wrote:
    Cities and other jurisdictions can and do restrict openly carried firearms in a vehicle.
    please give a citation for this comment. i know of none so please Show Me.

    You want to see what? St. Louis City's ordinance against open carry? Or do you want to see the State Statute that only preempts concealed carry of firearms?

    what i want to see is a citation that makes OC inside your vehicle illegal.
    If a firearm is inside your vehicle, and cannot be seen from the outside, it is not being openly carried. If, however, it is hanging in a gun rack in the rear window, it would be openly carried. So, do you want to see some ordinances from around the state that prohibit open carry?
    when did we start talking about Bubba's shotgun in the window of his truck?

    this is about OC of a handgun in holster in your car. SHOW ME.


    I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.
    Jimi Hendrix

    NRA Benefactor Member & 03 FFL

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Broondog wrote:
    cshoff wrote:
    Broondog wrote:
    cshoff wrote:
    Broondog wrote:
    cshoff wrote:
    Cities and other jurisdictions can and do restrict openly carried firearms in a vehicle.
    please give a citation for this comment. i know of none so please Show Me.

    You want to see what? St. Louis City's ordinance against open carry? Or do you want to see the State Statute that only preempts concealed carry of firearms?

    what i want to see is a citation that makes OC inside your vehicle illegal.
    If a firearm is inside your vehicle, and cannot be seen from the outside, it is not being openly carried. If, however, it is hanging in a gun rack in the rear window, it would be openly carried. So, do you want to see some ordinances from around the state that prohibit open carry?
    when did we start talking about Bubba's shotgun in the window of his truck?

    this is about OC of a handgun in holster. SHOW ME.

    We are talking about openly carried firearms; shotguns, pistols, rifles, doesn't really matter what flavor you prefer. It appears that you are either intentionally being obtuse, or you genuinely just don't know the difference between open and concealed.

    A shotgun, handgun, or rifle EXPOSED to outside view (such as in a gun rack, or as you mentioned, using "velcro" to attach it to the dashboard) would be subject to ordinances in jurisdictions that regulate open carry. A CONCEALED firearm (one attached to your body in a holster that CANNOT be seen from the outside of the vehicle) would NOT be subject to any local ordinances.

    Now, would you like for me to show you some local ordinances around the state that restrict openly carried firearms?


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    Regular Member frommycolddeadhands's Avatar
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    cshoff wrote:
    frommycolddeadhands wrote:
    cshoff wrote:
    ComSec wrote:


    If the firearm is concealed (not visible) from outside the vehicle, then you should be good to go.
    Ok, and since the weapon would be 'concealed' in my vehicle, do I need a CCW?
    God is the one driving this stagecoach, I'm just riding shotgun.

  17. #17
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    frommycolddeadhands wrote:
    cshoff wrote:
    frommycolddeadhands wrote:
    cshoff wrote:
    ComSec wrote:


    If the firearm is concealed (not visible) from outside the vehicle, then you should be good to go.
    Ok, and since the weapon would be 'concealed' in my vehicle, do I need a CCW?
    As long as you are at least 21 and are lawfully entitled to be in possession of the firearm, then no, you would not need a CCW permit. The State Statute I posted above is the relevant one to your question.

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    Campaign Veteran ComSec's Avatar
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    do you have ANYTHING to support your claim

    because I would have been arrested by now LOL to OC ___EDIT

  19. #19
    Regular Member frommycolddeadhands's Avatar
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    cshoff wrote:
    frommycolddeadhands wrote:
    If the firearm is concealed (not visible) from outside the vehicle, then you should be good to go.

    Ok, and since the weapon would be 'concealed' in my vehicle, do I need a CCW?
    As long as you are at least 21 and are lawfully entitled to be in possession of the firearm, then no, you would not need a CCW permit. The State Statute I posted above is the relevant one to your question.
    Awesome, thanks for the help. Also, in North Dakota, the law was that you could OC during daylight hours, but after sundown you had to have a CCW permit. Is that the same here, or can you OC at any hour?
    God is the one driving this stagecoach, I'm just riding shotgun.

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    Campaign Veteran ComSec's Avatar
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    any hour

  21. #21
    Regular Member frommycolddeadhands's Avatar
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    Great, thanks for your input everyone, it's a big help!
    God is the one driving this stagecoach, I'm just riding shotgun.

  22. #22
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Broondog wrote:
    cshoff wrote:
    Broondog wrote:
    frommycolddeadhands wrote:
    cshoff wrote:
    ComSec wrote:
    CONCEALED car carry is fine as long as you are at least 21 and lawfully entitled to possess the firearm in question, or if you meet the other criteria specified in RSMO 571.030.3. Cities and other jurisdictions can and do restrict openly carried firearms in a vehicle. I dare say that you would NOT want to try to drive through the city of St. Louis with a shotgun in a gun rack in the rear window of a pickup truck.

    Ok, so just to make sure I got this right: If I simply want to get in my car and drive to Wal Mart or the grocery store, can I have a pistol holstered on my belt in an open carry manner, or do I need to conceal it inside a glove compartment until I get out of the car?
    as far as i understand the law you may carry any way you see fit inside your vehicle per the MO Castle Doctrine, which makes your vehicle an extension of your home. CCW or OC is fine in your car but if you OC you should be aware of where you are and that areas municipal code about (or not about as the case may be) OC. you can have your pistol velcro'd to the dashboard if you see fit and it would be perfectly legal....maybe not wise, but legal.

    Care to cite that law? The Castle Doctrine only extends your right to use force and/or deadly force to a vehicle in which you are lawfully present. It doesn't change local open carry restrictions. The same thing applies to property you own; you don't need a CCW permit to lawfully carry a concealed firearm on property you own in St. Louis City, but you best not walk around your front yard with your openly carried firearm or you will be in violation of City ordinances.
    i asked you first but since you feel the need to dodge the question lets take a look at things.

    yep MO Castle Doctrine makes your vehicle an extension of your home. http://www.learntocarry.com/docs/CastleDoctrine.html under 563.011 Sec 2. since carry of any sort is legal on/in property you own OC'ing is legal in your car.

    this also makes OC in your front yard (being on property you own) perfectly legal no matter where it is. cities/towns/villages may only restrict OC on public property or property owned and operated by the govt. if STL City charges you with breaking the law for OC'ing on your own (private) property they would be breaking the law, not the property owner.

    i answered you, your turn.

    First off, you are posting a link that doesn't work, and if it did work, would be to a website that is neither an official state site, nor a site that provides legal opinions.

    Regardless, St. Louis ordinance 15.130.040 explicitly prohibits openly carried firearms:

    .... in any place of public accommodation or at any public gathering or on any public property, street or thoroughfare, shall carry on or about his person, any firearm, pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle or springback knife, or other weapon proscribed under Section 564.610 Missouri Revised Statutes, exposed in whole or in part to view.
    While it may not be legal, and it certainly isn't Constitutional, it is being enforced by STL City police in vehicles and on private property. I know 2 people that, in recent years, have been cited for "openly carrying a firearm" by the city of St. Louis; one was a person with a .22 rifle in the gun rack in the back window of his pickup truck, the other was leaving the property of a relative while carrying a borrowed shotgun out to his vehicle. In both cases, fines of $100 were issued. So before you say it can't or won't happen, you better guess again, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if similar citations have been issued in other jurisdictions around the state.

    Hey, if you have the time and resources to fight St. Louis on this, then more power to you. But I would never recommend to someone who is new to the state to come on down and be a guinea pig as a grand "welcome" the the show me state.

    ETA - My "guess" is that the City of STL is using the words, "street or thoroughfare" in their ordinance as justification to enforce the law when someone has an exposed firearm in their vehicle.


  23. #23
    Regular Member frommycolddeadhands's Avatar
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    I live down in the Warrensburg area out in a pretty rural area. (Standing on my front porch I can count perhaps 3 houses within seeing distance). I'm not a big fan of cities, and aside from an occassional trip into Warrensburg to pick up groceries or get gas I usually stay outside of city limits. I don't have any intention of putting a gun rack in the back window of my car (although that would be cool...) I just wanted to make sure that if I have a gun on my belt that I'd be legal to drive without separating the ammo from the firearm and all that, and that I wouldn't get into any problems getting in and out of my car at the store.

    Like I mentioned, in ND I had to CC at night (which I thought was pretty silly, considering I especially want to have a firearm while traveling at night, and when my wife makes a midnight run to the store I feel a little better when she's armed, but I digress) Anyway, it seems that MO is a much more carry friendly state.
    God is the one driving this stagecoach, I'm just riding shotgun.

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    Campaign Veteran ComSec's Avatar
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    its called abuse of power, does not mean they where in the right, SL is corrupt as hell as it is. Laws are LAWS, Rights are RIGHTS if you wont stick up for yours then yea its against the "law", if they didnt fight it then thats on them. Dont come in here telling us STORIES find the law to back you up, I have been researching MO OC Laws for years, and OC 24/7 I dont by it.......... your car is a extension of your home, and you can protect it as such, I CC/OC at home and in the car, I have had contact with LEOs in both that knew I was armed, never a problem more than the Officer Safety crap.

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran ComSec's Avatar
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    frommycolddeadhands I grew up in Warrensburg and OC there often your not going to have any problem there.

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