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Thread: Can we change the law to include an IQ test for your CPL?

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    At about 2:30 a.m. Sunday, police heard a single gunshot in the area just to the north of a nightclub in the 2200 block of Western Avenue. Security personnel for the club told police that a man armed with a handgun had just gotten into a red Cadillac.
    
    Police located the man and ordered him from the car. Police searched him, but didn't find a handgun. However, police looked inside the car and spotted a black semiautomatic handgun, with the hammer cocked, sticking out from under the driver's seat.
    
    The man told officers he fired a shot into the air. But he claimed it was in response to two other men who had been flashing their own guns. Police said there were no witnesses or evidence to support the man's claim.
    
    Police said the man had a valid concealed weapons permit. The man also pointed officers to the spot where the gunshot was fired. There, police found a spent casing.
    
    The man refused to give officers consent to search his car so it was impounded until police can obtain a search warrant.
    
    The man was released at the scene.
    
    The shooting was the second in two days reported at or a near a Seattle nightclub.
    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...gunplay_a.html

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    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
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    Damn. There's always an idiot that tries to ruin it for everybody else.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Take the below gun, load it, hand it to them and tell them to shoot 5 rounds into a paper target.




    If they fail, they will have their grade before they hit the floor.



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    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    Maybe he's an undercover brady/wa ceasefire agent paid for his sacrifice and charges.


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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    The man refused to give officers consent to search his car so it was impounded until police can obtain a search warrant.

    So, what crime were they investigating where searching the car would produce evidence? What evidence are they searching for?

    I have no doubt that a judge will sign the warrant, but if he does not, doesn't it then become an unlawful seizure?


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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Poosharker wrote:
    Maybe he's an undercover brady/wa ceasefire agent paid for his sacrifice and charges.
    I was just thinking the same thing. Hard to tell, there are allot of stupid people out there. Don't believe it, then you haven't spent enough time people watching at Mal-Wart. Most of witch are most likely able to get a CPL, unfortunately their not able to dress themselves to go out in public.

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    Regular Member trevorthebusdriver's Avatar
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    So even with RAS and seeing a gun in the car they can not search it without permission?
    I thought they could, like if they saw a bag of drugs in the car they could search it.
    So if you get pulled over for speeding and have a bunch of drugs, guns, dead hookers in your car they can't search it?

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    trevorthebusdriver wrote:
    So even with RAS and seeing a gun in the car they can not search it without permission?
    I thought they could, like if they saw a bag of drugs in the car they could search it.
    So if you get pulled over for speeding and have a bunch of drugs, guns, dead hookers in your car they can't search it?
    The rules on vehicular searches incident to arrest have changed recently. Departments are not typically searching for evidence in a vehicle without a warrant unless exigent circumstances exist. They will write a warrant outlining their PC and have a judge sign it. Then in court it is much harder for the defense to have it thrown out due to an unlawful search.
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    A search warrant remains the gold standard for ensuring the evidence is admissible, even if there is some other exception to the warrant requirement that might come into play. Sometimes, even if the suspect has consented in writing to a search, a warrant is still obtained, just to cover all bases.

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    We had a vehicular homicide case that had the log book thrown out, since there was no search warrant before it was seized.

    Now, this was a fatality accident, and the court system says the troopers have to have a search warrant to get the trucker's log book? I dunno.

    But, in this case, be extra careful, get the warrant, dot the t, cross the i (or something like that) and do it up right.

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    NavyLT wrote:
    Actually, my response of "nope" was to the question: wouldn't that be an illegal search and seizure. I do not believe it would be illegal. They have an eye witness saying the guy committed the crime of unlawfully discharging the gun. They have an eye witness that described the car. They stop the car meeting the description, with a guy in it meeting the description, and, upon removing the guy from the vehicle see a portion of a handgun in plain sight.

    I would think given all those circumstances it would be perfectly legal for them to remove the firearm from the vehicle. It IS evidence of the crime for which they have both RAS and PC to believe was committed. Seizing the gun both contributes to the evidence of the crime and protects existing evidence of a crime.

    Otherwise they would have to impound the car right there on the spot and wait for a search warrant to retrieve evidence that is already in plain sight.
    Due to the plain sight rule, and the mobile conveyance exception, they could have easily picked up the gun and called it a day.

    My question is, they get the gun, what else can they cite on the warrant to justify searching the ENTIRE car....What EVIDENCE is there other than the gun that they don't need a warrant to get?

    See my point?

    They're trying to justify searching an entire car, they have to justify the search by stating what evidence they hope to find. They FOUND the gun, KNOW where the gun is, how can they justify fully searching the car? What evidence do they expect to find?

    I'm thinking it's a 'he refused, we'll find a way' search....


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    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
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    Techno, that's exactly what I've been thinking about. I figure it's standard procedure to find anything that will stack charges. I hate to think about them going through every inch of my truck. I'd have to sell it.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Hmmmm.... maybe his story is true?

    No evidence to back up his point, is there evidence to prove noone else flashed guns? Unless there is I am siding with the civilian until proven otherwise. I am just wierd like that.


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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Can we change the law to include an IQ test for your CPL?
    If we did that then we'd have to require it for Marriage Licenses, Driver's Licenses, Home Purchases, Credit Card Applications, Filings for Public Office, etc.

    Just think how many of society's problems that could be solved it an "Intelligence Test" was required for anything that requiredan application form to be filled out.
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    amlevin wrote:
    Can we change the law to include an IQ test for your CPL?
    If we did that then we'd have to require it for Marriage Licenses, Driver's Licenses, Home Purchases, Credit Card Applications, Filings for Public Office, etc.

    Just think how many of society's problems that could be solved it an "Intelligence Test" was required for anything that requiredan application form to be filled out.
    By definition .....

    HALF of the people have less than average intelligence......
    Live Free or Die!

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    and since when does intelligence actually mean someone is smart?

    I work with way too many "intelligent" people who wear velcro shoes.

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    TheJeepster wrote:
    and since when does intelligence actually mean someone is smart?

    I work with way too many "intelligent" people who wear velcro shoes.
    I stick with slip-ons - even Velcro™ taxes my abilities ...






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    TheJeepster wrote:
    and since when does intelligence actually mean someone is smart?

    I work with way too many "intelligent" people who wear velcro shoes.
    What does velcro shoes have to do with anything. Over 95% of the people wearing lace up shoes can't tie the correct knot. If you will use a square knot instead of a granny knot your shoes will stay tied better. If you are wearing lace up check and see which you are using. Velcro instead of worrying about knots shows that they are intelligent.

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    I am lazy as all get out. I wear the boots with zippers to work
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    PT111 wrote:
    TheJeepster wrote:
    and since when does intelligence actually mean someone is smart?

    I work with way too many "intelligent" people who wear velcro shoes.
    What does velcro shoes have to do with anything. Over 95% of the people wearing lace up shoes can't tie the correct knot. If you will use a square knot instead of a granny knot your shoes will stay tied better. If you are wearing lace up check and see which you are using. Velcro instead of worrying about knots shows that they are intelligent.
    I agree.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    besides,,, how often do you call yourself on the phone??
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    1245A Defender wrote:
    besides,,, how often do you call yourself on the phone??
    Some of us loners call ourself just so we have someone to talk to
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


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    edited to delete comment based on mis-reading a poster's text
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    gogodawgs wrote:
    By definition .....

    HALF of the people have less than average intelligence......
    Why does it always seem that the bottom half is greater than 50%?:quirky
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    amlevin wrote:
    gogodawgs wrote:
    By definition .....

    HALF of the people have less than average intelligence......
    Why does it always seem that the bottom half is greater than 50%?:quirky
    It's because many of them are sofarbelow average.
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