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Thread: POLL--Hit it! Kansas City Star

  1. #1
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    "Will the open display of firearms at rallies turn America into a 'Wild West' society?"

    http://www.kansascity.com/2010/06/12...n-display.html
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    bump
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

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    I didn't know that I brandished. That's why we must listen to the antis: so that we can hear a proper description of what we are doing.

    BTW, I answered no only because the authors of the poll would think that is the positive outcome. The wild west of the movies is an inaccurate representation of the OC west of the 19th century. Unfortunately, the movie version is likely the one they had in mind as they wrote the question.

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    Regular Member Reverend BCal's Avatar
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    Wow, that first poster Josh Sugarmann from the Violence Policy Center needs to take a look at some gun crime statistics. Maybe he doesn't realize that cities like Chicago are quickly overpassing LA and Miami in gang related gun violence. I guess his Violence Policy only pertains to sheeple weiners and wussies.
    "Before all else, be armed." -Nicolo Machiavelli

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    Voted "No." Current results:

    Yes 2 3%
    No 63 97%
    Not sure 0 0%
    Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2010/06/12...#ixzz0qq89rVy4

    If the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.--Samuel Adams as Candidus, Boston Gazette 20 Jan. 1772

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  6. #6
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Reverend BCal wrote:
    Wow, that first poster Josh Sugarmann from the Violence Policy Center needs to take a look at some gun crime statistics. Maybe he doesn't realize that cities like Chicago are quickly overpassing LA and Miami in gang related gun violence. I guess his Violence Policy only pertains to sheeple weiners and wussies.
    Josh Sugarmann is the father of the virulently anti-gun term, "assault weapon" in its contemporary vernacular. He knew that using a term such as this, after the Stockton, CA school yard killings in 1989, would get picked up very quickly by the press and played over and over in a very negative and visceral light to move Americans towards accepting and even demanding firearms bans.

    His purpose was to confuse real assault rifles, which we all know what they are (I hope), with semi-auto look alikes and "evil" appearing rifles. He knew the general public and the press would accept his new definitions as fact.

    Now take a look at his article in the subject paper. He is deliberately using a term for an illegal act (brandishing) to once again confuse people into believing this is what open carriers are doing. He wants to get "brandishing" into public discourse and ultimately have people calling 911 to claim someone is brandishing a handgun when in fact, they are not. He is also grouping OC'ers with undesirables in an effort to show that they are miscreants, anti-social, and borderline outlaws.

    This guy knows exactly what he is doing. And the saddest part is no one in the press is going to call his hand on it.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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  7. #7
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    This use of words and images for propaganda and "molding public perception" is a pet topic of mine. As a graphic designer, printer, and writer, the topic of understanding how words and images effect public perception is, quite literally, my bread and butter...

    I've been doing some research on this issue lately, and am actually moving in a direction with my interests that look more and more like this may actually become my "thesis topic" for my Masters Degree. Interestingly enough, there is a LOT of academic writing on this topic--but it's not taught to people in the graphic design, creative writing, or journalism parts of academia. Where it IS taught (interestingly enough) is in the Public Policy, Political Science, and Public Relations programs, and these people then hire designers, writers, and printers to make their agenda "pretty" by polishing it up for public consumption.

    Most designers that I know (and I know quite a few, having been in the business for over 20 years) don't have a clue with regards to things like semiotics, socially-charged words, socio-political issues, and perception-based meanings.

    It's looking more and more like a LARGE part of my work as a grad student is going to be working toward expanding the awareness of new designers, so that they have a more clear understanding as to how their work is being used, and educating them as to the more insidious ways that their work is used to mold and shape public perception...

    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Reverend BCal wrote:
    Wow, that first poster Josh Sugarmann from the Violence Policy Center needs to take a look at some gun crime statistics. Maybe he doesn't realize that cities like Chicago are quickly overpassing LA and Miami in gang related gun violence. I guess his Violence Policy only pertains to sheeple weiners and wussies.
    Read the comments section below the article. Ironically, Sugarmann has an FFL. Sort of the heighth of hypocrisy don't you think?

    Facts, like the Constitution,are always inconvenient to the liberals predictions and theories. Despite their predictions not coming true in the National Parks, parking lot shootouts, crazed vendettas and so on,they continue to scream aboutcrazy gun-carriers and their propensity for violence.

    One might almost think that theseGUN SAFETY andVIOLENCE PREVENTIONorganzationsdesperatelyWANT it to happen..........

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    Regular Member hp-hobo's Avatar
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    Dreamer wrote:
    This use of words and images for propaganda and "molding public perception"...
    You mean something like this?


    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun."

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Josh Sugarmann, the Violence Policy Center
    wrote:
    Where gun ownership is low and exposure to firearms limited, overall gun death rates are far lower.
    Well duh, in places where vehicle ownership is low and exposure toautomobiles limited, overall vehicular homicide rates are lower too. What is it with these idiots?


    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

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    falcon1 wrote:
    Voted "No." Current results:

    Yes 2 3%
    No 63 97%
    Not sure 0 0%
    Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2010/06/12...#ixzz0qq89rVy4
    This poll ha absolutely no statistical value. All itreally says is that the majority ofpeople who voluntarily answer such polls are more likely to be pro gun.The only thing it proves is that pro gunpeople are more publiclyengaged in protecting their rights thananti gunpeople arepublicly active in restricting those rights. That says a lot when you think about it.

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    hp-hobo, that's awesome. I love it! I may have to print that out. :celebrate

  13. #13
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    DanM wrote:
    "Will the open display of firearms at rallies turn America into a 'Wild West' society?"

    http://www.kansascity.com/2010/06/12...n-display.html

    THIS IS A TRICK QUESTION. IT SHOULD BE:
    .. into a 'wild west' movie.

    The so-called 'Wild west' had very low murder-per-capita.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

  14. #14
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Dreamer wrote:
    This use of words and images for propaganda and "molding public perception" is a pet topic of mine. As a graphic designer, printer, and writer, the topic of understanding how words and images effect public perception is, quite literally, my bread and butter...

    I've been doing some research on this issue lately, and am actually moving in a direction with my interests that look more and more like this may actually become my "thesis topic" for my Masters Degree. Interestingly enough, there is a LOT of academic writing on this topic--but it's not taught to people in the graphic design, creative writing, or journalism parts of academia. Where it IS taught (interestingly enough) is in the Public Policy, Political Science, and Public Relations programs, and these people then hire designers, writers, and printers to make their agenda "pretty" by polishing it up for public consumption.

    Most designers that I know (and I know quite a few, having been in the business for over 20 years) don't have a clue with regards to things like semiotics, socially-charged words, socio-political issues, and perception-based meanings.

    It's looking more and more like a LARGE part of my work as a grad student is going to be working toward expanding the awareness of new designers, so that they have a more clear understanding as to how their work is being used, and educating them as to the more insidious ways that their work is used to mold and shape public perception...
    Good man, Dreamer.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

  15. #15
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    One might almost think that theseÂ*GUN SAFETY andÂ*VIOLENCE PREVENTIONÂ*organzationsÂ*desperatelyÂ*WANT it to happen..........Â*
    [/quote]

    Many of them subconsiously think want to be victimized so they can say "I told you so." and "look at poor me."
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

  16. #16
    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    After reading these comments...

    "Open-carry advocates take delight in thumbing their noses at societal norms by brandishing their firearms."

    Open-carry advocates — "from nose-thumbers to anti-government activists to white supremacists — all share a common belief that guns make them safer. Carrying guns may make them feel safer from the demons that populate their world, but what about the rest of us?"


    It is no wonder anti-gun people and organizations havelost battle after battle, all over the nation, for the last several years. My goodness, keep these people talking and we will have full constitutional restoration before we know it.

    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

  17. #17
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    simmonsjoe wrote:
    One might almost think that theseGUN SAFETY andVIOLENCE PREVENTIONorganzationsdesperatelyWANT it to happen..........
    Many of them subconsiously think want to be victimized so they can say "I told you so." and "look at poor me."
    [/quote]
    Ihave been thinking this for several years now.

    You can even spin it positively for the Bradyites and VPC'ers:

    A good example was the National Parks law. Despite the predictions of camping area shootouts, wide-scale animal poaching, drunken target-shooting and general mayhem, nothing happened. Where is the sigh of relief, the prayers of gratitude, celebrations of sanity and such at the Brady or VPC HQ?

    Shouldn't organizations which state in their request for non-profit status that their goal is to save lives through responsible gun laws feel a sense of accomplishment when a gun law or regulation change doesn't result in the predicted carnage anddestruction? Why didn't theyput outpressreleaseslike these?

    PEACE PREVAILS IN NATIONAL PARKS

    RESPONSIBLE CARRY LAWS RESULT IN SAFE WEEKENDS

    Why didn't they acknowledge that, "Thank Goodness! Our predictions were wrong, the gun-carrying community is more responsible than we thought!"

    Is it just possible that like certain politicians, they are so hung up on an agenda of personal aggrandizement that they fear to acknowledge the achievement of progress for fear it will hurt their own future (fund-raising, legislative goals, education, etc.)?

    Many years ago a very bad thing happened to James Brady (and R. Reagan of course). My heart and prayers went out for the Brady family in that time period afterward. The man did his job well and suffered as a result of a deranged individual's actions.However this somehow morphed into their single-minded, vicious attacks on the Constitutution and American freedoms and have erased that initial sympathy and understanding. Their falsification of data, refusal to acknowledge postive aspects of gun ownership and the feeling of the people are all symptoms of the very things we see in the leadership of our country today.

  18. #18
    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Arrrgh too bad I couldn't respond to the idiot

    [img]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/BOBAND%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/img][img]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/BOBAND%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.png[/img][img]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/BOBAND%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.png[/img]yes-4 no 189 IDK4 97% sure is a vast majority
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    Open-carry advocates — from nose-thumbers to anti-government activists to white supremacists ...
    [/quote]
    So, because I open carry, I hate black people? :shock:

    Oh, wait, hold on, I could also be either a social renegade or have plans to run into the Congressional Building shooting like mad. At least Josh was courteous enough to not stereotype OC'ers! MR SUGARMANN!

    You know what people like this make me do?





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