Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Hello and my letters to the DA

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    3

    Post imported post

    Hello, I am new here and wanted your opinions and experiences w/ your local DAs.

    I live in Calhoun County and sent the following two letters to Joe Hubbard our DA.The first letter was sent in AUG 09 and the second in APR 10. As yet, I have been completely blown off by the DA's office.:?

    Has anyone else had a similar experience w/ Mr. Hubbard or your local DA? Thanks.

    The text of the two letters is posted below:


    QUOTE


    August 20, 2009

    Joseph D. Hubbard
    District Attorney
    Calhoun County Courthouse
    25 W. 11th Street, Ste. 400
    Anniston, AL 36201-4537

    Dear Mr. Hubbard,

    I am writing you with some questions concerning the open carry of firearms in the state of Alabama.

    I have reviewed the Alabama Code concerning the OPEN carry of firearms and cannot find any statutes specially addressing this action. Title 11 addresses many requirements to include concealed carry (13A-11-74) and vehicle carry. Carrying a weapon in plain view is not referenced.

    To further complicate matters, on the reverse of pistol permits issued by the Calhoun County Sherriff, it is written, “This permit does not permit you to carry a gun openly.”

    As far as my limited research can determine, a permit is not required for open carry. I also discovered Alabama Attorney General Opinion 1984-00205, dated March 22, 1984 (attached). In this opinion, Assistant Attorney General Bernard F. Sykes states,

    1. A person afoot carrying an unconcealed pistol needs no license or permit.

    2. A license is required to carry a pistol in a vehicle.

    3. A license is required to carry a concealed pistol on or about the person.

    4. It is an offense for a person who has no license thereof (except on his land, abode or place of business):

    a) to carry a pistol in any vehicle; or

    b) to carry a pistol concealed on or about his person.

    My question is threefold;

    1. Is it legal for an individual to carry a pistol unconcealed in the state of Alabama?

    2. Is a specific permit required for open carry?

    3. If legal, are local and state law enforcement officials informed and educated in the legality of the act?

    I have heard of citizens who are openly carrying a pistol, being harassed and charged with disorderly conduct (13A-11-7), I have also heard of citizens being told by law enforcement officials, outside of your district, that open carry is in fact illegal.

    State vs. Reid, Morris vs. State, Looney vs. State, K.J. vs. State, and Attorney General Opinion 2007-054 might provide some insight to this issue.

    Thank you very much for your time and service. I look forward to your response.

    Sincerely,

    James H


    April 13, 1010

    Joseph D. Hubbard
    District Attorney
    Calhoun County Courthouse
    25 W. 11th Street, Ste. 400
    Anniston, AL 36201-4537

    Dear Mr. Hubbard,

    Last August I sent you a letter with some questions concerning the legality of the OPEN carrying of a firearm in the state of Alabama. As of yet, I have not received a response. I am fearful that the original letter must have been lost, misplaced, or not made it to your office; therefore, I am including a copy of the original correspondence.

    This issue has become even more confusing due to the fact that CBS channel 42, in Birmingham, had recently done several stories on the issue of open carry in Alabama.

    The first story was aired on March 11, 2010. In the story it is said that open carry is, in fact, legal in this state. Chief Deputy Randy Christian of the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Department is also interviewed for the story.

    This was followed up with an April 11th story about an “open carry blood drive” that was conducted in Hoover on April 10, 2010. In this story, many people were openly displaying holstered pistols and revolvers in public and once again it was affirmed that open carry of a pistol is legal in the state of Alabama.

    Links to these news videos are listed below:

    http://www.cbs42.com/content/localne...j5hCOpIuQ.cspx

    http://www.cbs42.com/content/localne...Zsqr3lafQ.cspx

    As I wrote in my original correspondence of August 20th, I have three questions:

    1. Is it legal for an individual to carry a pistol unconcealed in the state of Alabama?

    2. Is a specific permit required for open carry?

    3. If legal, are local and state law enforcement officials informed and educated on the legality of the act?

    Please feel free to respond by emailor by traditional mail.

    Thank you very much for your time and service. I look forward to your response.

    Sincerely,

    James H

    END QUOTE



  2. #2
    Regular Member AL Ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    238

    Post imported post

    Don't sweat the little things, man! A lot of people in the law don't like or want to admit that OC is legal. Just go ahead and deal with what comes at you on a one-to-one basis. OC is legal regardless of what some might say. None of us want to get in trouble but sometimes that is what it takes to clear the air. We are fighting for our rights here and it might get a little hot at times.
    Check out my home page @ www.alabamaopencarry.com and Carry On!

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Urban Skeet City, Alabama
    Posts
    897

    Post imported post

    Send it again, registered mail. CC the county commission. Remember that you might not be able to sue an official under qualified immunity, but you can sue the county commissioners (elected officials).
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    87

    Post imported post

    I justwent into our DA's office, sat down and waited to see someone. I simply asked to see an attorney. They do afterall work for us. The man who saw me was cordial and quite frank, yes, OC is legal in Alabama.

    I do think the DA's office is the place to go, as any charges brought for carrying an illegal firearm are going to be decided on by this office. After having that conversation, speaking witha couple of other LEO's who told it was illegal, replying "That's not what the DA says" brought a palable change in the tone of conversation. On eeven told me of a guy in an adjoining county that had be OCing and there was nothing they could do about it. They know the truth of things. The problem is a few who don't want the boat rocked.

    Another way of dealing with it is to also cc the state attorney general office.

    Don't forget, we don't have to ask permission to do this.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Urban Skeet City, Alabama
    Posts
    897

    Post imported post

    If you're gonna talk to them in person, request that you get a letter on thier letterhead to the effect of what they've told you. It shouldn't take too long to type up (hell, if they'll talk, I'll dictate. I can type at 100+WPM.) and will help you out if you have to deal with any deputies.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

  6. #6
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    4,047

    Post imported post

    Kirbinator wrote:
    If you're gonna talk to them in person, request that you get a letter on thier letterhead to the effect of what they've told you. It shouldn't take too long to type up (hell, if they'll talk, I'll dictate. I can type at 100+WPM.) and will help you out if you have to deal with any deputies.
    I don't know the law in AL but in WI you can bring an undercover tape recorder with you and record it.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Alabama, ,
    Posts
    1,338

    Post imported post

    paul@paul-fisher.com wrote:
    Kirbinator wrote:
    If you're gonna talk to them in person, request that you get a letter on thier letterhead to the effect of what they've told you. It shouldn't take too long to type up (hell, if they'll talk, I'll dictate. I can type at 100+WPM.) and will help you out if you have to deal with any deputies.
    I don't know the law in AL but in WI you can bring an undercover tape recorder with you and record it.
    Nope, no sheep down here. We can have our recorders out in the open,
    of course if you mess up and tell them you don't know anything about
    the recorder you would be breaking the law unless they knew.
    From the reaction I got from the chief, I think the site of a recorder goes up
    as #2 behind a gun. You get the same response also.. "THAT'S ILLEGAL":what:
    Shame it was back in the old days when I thought you only turn it on
    when needed. Would have been a great audio to have.


  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    3
    I spoke with the Calhoun Co Chief ADA Wednesday. He said they get questions quite a bit from local LE and they tell them that open carry is LEGAL as long as it is not inside a vehicle then a CCW is required.

    He did say you have to be careful of violations local ordinances which are not processed by the DA's office. I think that Ala. Code 11-45-1.1 addresses that however.

    He was very helpful and plesant.

    I sent him the 1984 and 2007 AG opinions, Looney vs. State etc.

    So, in short, it looks good for Calhoun Co.

  9. #9
    Regular Member FedFirefighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Hattiesburg, MS.
    Posts
    103
    Great news! Thanks for the update. Have you been to alabamaopencarry.com ? You gotta check it out, anyway thanks again for the info.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    63
    For what it's worth, I wrote to both the Madison County Sheriff and the acting Huntsville Chief of Police three weeks ago and haven't received a response. I figure that official correspondence is a 30 day affair, especially since any response to my letter is going to have to run the legal gauntlet, so I'm patiently waiting. If I don't get a response, I'll follow your technique and write to the DA. Thanks for giving me a Plan B!

    I've also written to my state representative, Howard Sanderford, about the changes that need to be made to the Alabama State Cold now that the Supreme Court has issued its McDonald ruling. The NRA rates Rep. Sanderford highly and I've corresponded with him before, so I think he's a friendly audience.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by AL Ranger View Post
    Don't sweat the little things, man! A lot of people in the law don't like or want to admit that OC is legal. Just go ahead and deal with what comes at you on a one-to-one basis. OC is legal regardless of what some might say. None of us want to get in trouble but sometimes that is what it takes to clear the air. We are fighting for our rights here and it might get a little hot at times.
    I would also add that it is imperative that you have an audio recording device and a small hand held video camera with you when you open carry. I also have a copy of the Alabama attorney general's opinion and a couple of other documents to give any interested party who might stop me or question my RIGHT to lawfully open carry.

    Last edited by NathanForrest; 07-06-2010 at 04:03 PM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Kirbinator wrote:


    I don't know the law in AL but in WI you can bring an undercover tape recorder with you and record it.
    My phone has 'voice notes' which acts as a voice recorder. Would be hard to miss that attached to my shirt in recording mode. Not to mention the small Sony video camera I carry. Both will be running if I'm ever stopped.

  13. #13
    Regular Member FF/EMT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Anniston, Alabama
    Posts
    8
    I've recently been dealing with the Calhoun County Sheriff's Office with this same matter and I got a totally different answer. Everyone I've talked to has said OC is ILLEGAL and I was also told that I would be arrested for nothing more than OCing in public if the S.O. got any kind of call about it. Not arrested for Disorderly Conduct, but OC.

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Ask them under which law you will be charged. Then ask them to research case law.

    They will find that folks charged with OC have had the charges thrown out. The only way to convict someone on possession charges is if they carry concealed and have no permit. Period.

    Then, once you have pointed this out, refer them to St. John v. McColley. Once they know (or should have known) that OC is legal, the department and the individual officers are liable for civil judgments against them if they unlawfully detain an OCer. Maybe that will scare them straight.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    oxford, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    59
    Quote Originally Posted by FF/EMT View Post
    I've recently been dealing with the Calhoun County Sheriff's Office with this same matter and I got a totally different answer. Everyone I've talked to has said OC is ILLEGAL and I was also told that I would be arrested for nothing more than OCing in public if the S.O. got any kind of call about it. Not arrested for Disorderly Conduct, but OC.
    I took their safty class for conceal carry and was told the same thing maybe its time I sent a email too, I really haven't oc much this past month I've CC (due to the weapon I choose to carry)
    I see your in anniston, finally another member close to me
    Maybe we can meet up at Starbucks soon

  16. #16
    Regular Member FF/EMT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Anniston, Alabama
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by solidsnake.45 View Post
    I took their safty class for conceal carry and was told the same thing maybe its time I sent a email too, I really haven't oc much this past month I've CC (due to the weapon I choose to carry)
    I see your in anniston, finally another member close to me
    Maybe we can meet up at Starbucks soon
    Awesome. I usually end up at Starbucks on Wednesdays and Saturdays. I personally like the one in the Target store in the Oxford Exchange.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    oxford, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    59
    Quote Originally Posted by FF/EMT View Post
    Awesome. I usually end up at Starbucks on Wednesdays and Saturdays. I personally like the one in the Target store in the Oxford Exchange.
    Great I work not far from the Oxford exchange and pass by it everyday on my way home

  18. #18
    Regular Member FF/EMT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Anniston, Alabama
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Ask them under which law you will be charged. Then ask them to research case law.

    They will find that folks charged with OC have had the charges thrown out. The only way to convict someone on possession charges is if they carry concealed and have no permit. Period.

    Then, once you have pointed this out, refer them to St. John v. McColley. Once they know (or should have known) that OC is legal, the department and the individual officers are liable for civil judgments against them if they unlawfully detain an OCer. Maybe that will scare them straight.
    Eye, dude, that is an awesome case!!! I'm trying to find it in a printable version that looks like what you would get if you went down to the court house and requested a copy. I think it would be a great tool for dealing with the common patrol officer.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Opelika, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    100
    Quote Originally Posted by FF/EMT View Post
    Eye, dude, that is an awesome case!!! I'm trying to find it in a printable version that looks like what you would get if you went down to the court house and requested a copy. I think it would be a great tool for dealing with the common patrol officer.
    FF, Here is a site for the case...
    http://scholar.google.com/scholar_ca...=1&oi=scholarr

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Quote Originally Posted by FF/EMT View Post
    Eye, dude, that is an awesome case!!! I'm trying to find it in a printable version that looks like what you would get if you went down to the court house and requested a copy. I think it would be a great tool for dealing with the common patrol officer.
    Remember, the case is from New Mexico, so it is not controlling in Alabama. However, it will be persuasive.

  21. #21
    Regular Member FF/EMT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Anniston, Alabama
    Posts
    8

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Remember, the case is from New Mexico, so it is not controlling in Alabama. However, it will be persuasive.
    Well, the rulings in favor of the plaintiff are based on national court cases and Federal Supreme Court rulings so I would think it could be admisable in an Alabama court. If nothing else, it would be a great starting point for an attorney. I really think Jonathan_Norris and condition1ftw need to see this case and show it to their attorney(s) in reference to their July 4th experience.

  22. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Quote Originally Posted by FF/EMT View Post
    Well, the rulings in favor of the plaintiff are based on national court cases and Federal Supreme Court rulings so I would think it could be admisable in an Alabama court. If nothing else, it would be a great starting point for an attorney. I really think Jonathan_Norris and condition1ftw need to see this case and show it to their attorney(s) in reference to their July 4th experience.
    It's not a matter of admissibility. The attorneys will be able to use it in argument. The judge will not be compelled to follow it (not controlling), but will likely choose to follow it (persuasive).

    This case has been mentioned numerous times here and at ALOC. Jonathon is well aware of it.

  23. #23
    Regular Member FF/EMT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Anniston, Alabama
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    It's not a matter of admissibility. The attorneys will be able to use it in argument. The judge will not be compelled to follow it (not controlling), but will likely choose to follow it (persuasive).

    This case has been mentioned numerous times here and at ALOC. Jonathon is well aware of it.
    Ahh. My apologies. I had never heard of it til now. I am glad they do know about it though.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •