http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=89624
Here's a link to page 1 of a MGO thread where this was discussed. The best relevent content starts around page 8, with emphasis on page 10 also. What a clusterf**k. You may want to read the whole thread (15 pages) but I think it starts getting juicy around page 8. Lots of gray. I believe it was essentially left at needing an AG opinion and/or cae law.
Sorry, I wasn't correct about Zig having case laws backing him up - but upon reading, you'll see that his information DOES have relevence. Now I'm a little anxious to see what your takes on this are...
BTW - the email posted on page 1 of that thread may be confusing, as it was amended long after being originally posted.
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I begin by stating I am not a lawyer and this is in no way legal advice... just an opinion provided for education. It is your responsibility to read and understand the law; do not rely on anything written here.
My response:
1st Point
I looked at what Zig wrote and am in 100% agreement w/ him. A school MAY be a local unit of Government in my, yours, and anyone else's opinion and, in most instances, I would agree. But we are not talking about most instances and personal opinions. The FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION Act 319 of 1990 defines "local units of Government" as used in this act:
MCL 123.1101 Definitions.
Sec. 1.
As used in this act:
(a) “Local unit of government” means a city, village, township, or county.
Jennifer Granholm alludes to the problem of definition in opinion # 7120 here dealing with the definition of "entertainment facility" where she states:
"The statutory term "entertainment facility" is not defined by the Legislature. The question therefore arises whether a municipal outdoor park, as described in your request, constitutes an entertainment facility for purposes of the gun-free zones created by section 5o(1)(f) of the Act. Words not defined by the Legislature are to be given their generally understood meaning consistent with the intent of the Legislature. Royal Globe Ins Co v Frankenmuth Mutual Ins Co, 419 Mich 565, 573; 357 NW2d 652 (1984). Courts will consult dictionaries to ascertain the meaning of undefined statutory terms unless the legislative intent may be discerned from the statute itself. People v Stone, 463 Mich 558, 563; 621 NW2d 702 (2001). The term "entertainment" is defined as an act to divert, amuse or to cause someone's time to pass agreeably, such as a concert. Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged (1964). The term "facility" is defined as something built or constructed to perform some particular function.
If this doesn't help, perhaps the following will. Many states define "firearms" as something that uses an explosive mixture to propel ammunition... or something to that effect. In Michigan's definition of firearm, they also include a device that propels by air. So, in Michigan at least, a firearm includes an airgun. Michigan then goes on to say that it does not include air-guns with certain attributes but I think you get my point. Is an airgun truly a "firearm"? Not in my opinion but my opinion does not matter.
Are school boards listed under preemption? Nope. Therefore, until a court or the legislature modifies the definition in the act, a school is able to make or enforce a policy or rule banning firearms.
How can they do this... they are a governmental entity and are making a law concerning firearms?
Yep, they can. See AG opinion 7123 where Mike Cox states that:
Section 5o of the Act, MCL 28.425o, identifies specific locations where the carrying of a concealed pistol is expressly prohibited. These locations are commonly referred to as gun-free zones and include: A school or school property; a public or private daycare center, public or private child care agency, or public or private child placing agency; a sports arena or stadium; certain premises licensed by the Michigan Liquor Control Commission; property owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship; an entertainment facility that seats 2,500 or more people; a hospital; or a dormitory or classroom of a college or university. The list of gun-free zones in section 5o is not all-inclusive, however, because section 5c(2) of the Act also prohibits the carrying of a concealed pistol in those locations where such a ban is "otherwise provided by law."
The phrase "provided by law" was construed by the Michigan Supreme Court in Viculin v Dep't of Civil Service, 386 Mich 375; 192 NW2d 449 (1971). In holding that appeal procedures set forth in a Michigan court rule were properly considered a method of review "provided by law" as used in Const 1963, art 6, § 28, the Court explained that the rule fell within the scope of this phrase because "it was adopted pursuant to the power vested" in the Court. 386 Mich at 397, n 20.
An examination of the Michigan laws dealing with the possession of firearms discloses several additional instances where the prohibition of firearms is "otherwise provided by law." Among these is 2001 PA 225, MCL 259.80f, effective April 1, 2002, which prohibits the possession of a firearm in the "sterile" (i.e., secure) area of a commercial airport. In addition, the Michigan Supreme Court, in Administrative Order 2001-3, 464 Mich 1xxv, has, with certain exceptions, prohibited the possession of a weapon in any courtroom or facility used for official business of the court. A person violating the order may be held in contempt of court. The Michigan Department of Agriculture has also promulgated a rule making it unlawful for any person, except authorized peace officers and other persons authorized by law, "to enter upon a fairgrounds and have in his possession any firearm loaded or unloaded." 1979 AC, R 291.208.
So, since Michigan limits concealed pistols from those areas listed in the Concealed Weapons Act, they are also prohibited in other areas which are prohibited by law. A school, given the powers to operate and manage schools, have been given the power to ban firearms. What though, is the consequence of doing so? I would imagine, much like a private entity, you would be asked to leave and, if one chooses not to, would be charged under Trespassing.
BTW, I think there is some confusion as to whether a school can evict someone from the campus. Yes they can and they can for almost any reason. Yes, a school is a public entity. But, the fact that it is does not automatically provide you with the right to be there at any time and in any manner you please. The legal powers given to a school board or their representative is quite broad: see MCL750.170 Disturbance of Lawful Meetings.
2nd Point: The chief's understanding of the law is incorrect (MGO Post 1). In his email, the chief of police states that schools are not listed in the areas in which a CPL allows one to possess a pistol. (Read possess as being able to OC) To support his understanding, he cites AG Opinion # 7097. Although enlightening, it is not persuasive. The chief should have read opinion #7120... I've included the pertinent part here:
"The carrying of firearms in public is [also] restricted by the Michigan Penal Code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.1 et seq. Section 234d of the Penal Code identifies certain "gun free zones" similar to those enumerated in section 5o of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act; within those specified zones, the possession of firearms is strictly prohibited, subject to limited exceptions. Specifically, section 234d(1) of the Penal Code provides that:
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
(b) A church or other house of religious worship.
(c) A court.
(d) A theatre.
(e) A sports arena.
(f) A day care center.
(g) A hospital.
(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
This language is significantly broader than that employed by section 5o of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act. By its express terms, section 234d(1) of the Penal Code applies to firearms generally, not merely to pistols, and applies to firearms whether concealed or not. Subsection (2) of this provision creates several specific exceptions to this prohibition, two of which are germane to your inquiry. It provides, in pertinent part that:
(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
* * *
(b) A peace officer.
(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
Similarly, section 237a(4) of the Penal Code prohibits possession of a firearm in a weapon free school zone, a term defined in section 237a(6)(d) as "school property and a vehicle used by a school to transport students to or from school property." Like section 234d(2),[ the prohibition against possessing firearms in a school zone does not apply to a peace officer or to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon. Section 237a(5).
Therefore, as I am not a lawyer, I will defer to Jennifer Granholm (an attorney) who states that carrying a pistol in a school is legal. However, I will add that a CPL holder may not carry a CONCEALED pistol in a school zone NOT because of anything in this MCL. As she states above, there is no mention made of concealed so IF this were the ONLY operative law for CPL holders, we could carry concelaed in a school. Howeevr, CPL holders are bound to the restrictions placed in The Concealed Pistol Licensing Act, 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 et seq, which regulates the possession and carrying of concealed pistols.
From Opinion 7120
The Act prohibits persons from carrying a concealed pistol unless they have been licensed in accordance with the provisions of that Act. Amendatory 2000 PA 381 made significant changes to the Act. Section 5b(7) sets forth specific qualifications a person must possess in order to receive a license to carry a concealed pistol and further provides that a county concealed weapon licensing board "shall issue a license" to an applicant who meets those requirements. The Act also provides that a person who is issued a license under the Act may carry a concealed pistol "anywhere in this state" except in certain designated classes of locations listed in section 5o of the Act. Those exceptions, commonly referred to as "gun free zones," include the following:
I copied this section from the current list of premises on which carrying concelaed weapons prohibited
FIREARMS (EXCERPT)
Act 372 of 1927
28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.
Sec. 5o.
(1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:
(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.
(b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.
(c) A sports arena or stadium.
(d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.
(e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
(f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.
(g) A hospital.
(h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.
(2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code promulgated under the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226.
(3) As used in subsection (1), "premises" does not include parking areas of the places identified under subsection (1).
(4) Subsection (1) does not apply to any of the following:
(a) An individual licensed under this act who is a retired police officer or retired law enforcement officer. The concealed weapon licensing board may require a letter from the law enforcement agency stating that the retired police officer or law enforcement officer retired in good standing.
(b) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is employed or contracted by an entity described under subsection (1) to provide security services and is required by his or her employer or the terms of a contract to carry a concealed firearm on the premises of the employing or contracting entity.
(c) An individual who is licensed as a private investigator or private detective under the professional investigator licensure act, 1965 PA 285, MCL 338.821 to 338.851.
(d) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is a corrections officer of a county sheriff's department.
(e) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is a motor carrier officer or capitol security officer of the department of state police.
(f) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is a member of a sheriff's posse.
(g) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is an auxiliary officer or reserve officer of a police or sheriff's department.
(h) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is a parole or probation officer of the department of corrections.
(i) A state court judge or state court retired judge who is licensed under this act. The concealed weapon licensing board may require a state court retired judge to obtain and carry a letter from the judicial tenure commission stating that the state court retired judge is in good standing as authorized under section 30 of article VI of the state constitution of 1963, and rules promulgated under that section, in order to qualify under this subdivision.
A plain reading of section 5o(1) of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act discloses, however, that its prohibition applies only to the carrying of pistols that are "concealed." A holstered pistol carried openly and in plain view is not "concealed" and therefore does not violate the prohibition contained in that section. See, e.g., OAG, 1951-1952, No 1388, p 228 (April 18, 1951) ("Should they be so directed by their superior officers, auxiliary police while on duty may carry weapons openly, the prohibition in the Penal Code applying only to 'concealed' weapons."), Cf., People v Johnnie W. Jones, 12 Mich App 293, 296; 162 NW2d 847 (1968); and People v Kincade, 61 Mich App 498, 502; 233 NW2d 54 (1975).
In conclusion, I state emphatically that I am not an attorney but the plain reading seems to allow a person with a CPL to open carry a pistol in a school and to CC a pistol in a vehicle dropping off one's child OR in any parking area. A school representative may ask you to leave. If you do not leave you will be charged with Tresspassing.
