Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Open Carry? Not any more. For this guy.

  1. #1
    69Charger
    Guest

    Post imported post


  2. #2
    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    513

    Post imported post

    Be aware and carry a BUG.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Kent, Washington, USA
    Posts
    376

    Post imported post

    Just goes to show that even an armed civilian isn't truly safe. Just means you need to stay on your toes but if a robber has the jump on you and your staring down the wrong end..... hmmm.

    Lucky for him the robber didn't shoot him outright.

    The robber knows going in it's a high risk robbery (man with gun). It definitely pushes up the risk factor for everyone involved. Meaningthe robbermust be willing to shoot since he knows you havea gun.

    Situational awareness? I didn't see the situation of how he got robbed. Meaning under what conditions (dark, alone or secluded area, snuck up behind him, etc).

    Goes to show that - someone that is going to commit a crime - sometimes there is no stopping it. Glad he made it alive.You can always buy another gun. I don't know about not everOC'ing.... But it's a personal choice as many will argue Pro/Con.

    This is just one story. It's hard to get numbers on how many crimes have been deterred by someone that has OC'd. No hard numbers to compare.
    Young Kim, NRA Endowment Member
    NRA Certified Instructor (pistol)
    NRA Range Safety Officer

    www.shootonthemove.org

    "Shoot Safetly, Shoot Often and Share Your Sport!"
    Jim Scoutten, Shooting USA

  4. #4
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Yakima, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,463

    Post imported post

    This is a risk anyone of us face when we choose to carry and a strong reminder to never let down your guard down and seek training so we can prepare ourselves if it does happen.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  5. #5
    Regular Member USMC1911's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Vancouver, Washington, USA
    Posts
    190

    Post imported post

    OC'ing is one thing, being mentally prepared to react when the feces hits the oscillating machine is a whole other thing! I run "What If" scenarios every where I go and with everyone I meet along the way. It's not just a Boy Scout saying, it is a saying to live by, "Always be prepared" !
    I am a Sheep Dog, ... Wolves Beware !

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Port Angeles, Washington, USA
    Posts
    295

    Post imported post

    So if he was CCing, he wouldn't have been robbed?

  7. #7
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338

    Post imported post

    olypendrew wrote:
    So if he was CCing, he wouldn't have been robbed?
    Beat me to it.

    60% of criminals won't bother people if they know they are armed, that still leaves 40% who might still be braven to try this.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  8. #8
    Regular Member Son_of_Perdition's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    SW , Washington, USA
    Posts
    166

    Post imported post

    Hum?

    Thinking out loud here... I wonderif a person could make a holster that looks like a wallet that completely conceals a little Kel Tec or derringer .45 ACP?If you were to be robed youcould pull out your wallet/Gun and put one threw their eye. The bad guy wouldn't be the wiser. He would just think you were going to give him your wallet?

  9. #9
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    north mason county, Washington, USA
    Posts
    4,381

    Post imported post

    i think there is a law against "wallet guns",, even with a CPL...
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Tacoma, WA, ,
    Posts
    886

    Post imported post

    So, in the last two weeks, we've had examples of people not practicing situational awareness (as they should) and failing to conduct themselves in public in a manner that does not "warrant alarm for the safety of others." (Ruby's thread @ the Ben's Loans incident)

    Lesson out of all of this....YOU CAN SCREW UP. These people did.

    It just means that while OCing/CCing we all need to make sure we are well-aware of our surroundings andconducting ourselves in a manner that is beyond question in the eyes of 9.41.270.

    If there's anything good go come out of these two instances, it shows the rest of us examples of what NOT to do...

    -G20

  11. #11
    Regular Member Son_of_Perdition's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    SW , Washington, USA
    Posts
    166

    Post imported post

    1245A Defender wrote:
    i think there is a law against "wallet guns",, even with a CPL...
    That's interesting. However, I didn't mean to imply that the wallet was a gun or that the gun was concealed in an actual wallet. Only that a holster for a vary small gun looks square and proportionally shaped like a wallet but in no way have any wallet like paraphernalia in it. Such as money, licence or credit cards. I thought that there wasn't a legal holster definition in regards to shape or size. But I could be wrong.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Tacoma, WA, ,
    Posts
    886

    Post imported post

    Son_of_Perdition wrote:
    1245A Defender wrote:
    i think there is a law against "wallet guns",, even with a CPL...
    That's interesting. However, I didn't mean to imply that the wallet was a gun or that the gun was concealed in an actual wallet. Only that a holster for a vary small gun looks square and proportionally shaped like a wallet but in no way have any wallet like paraphernalia in it. Such as money, licence or credit cards. I thought that there wasn't a legal holster definition in regards to shape or size. But I could be wrong.


    Sorry about the crappy cut/paste job, but this is what I found in an ATF newsletter dated 1997. If your gun can fire without being removed from the holster, it is an NFA item, but if you have to remove it first, it's just a pocket holster that prints like a wallet...




    WALLET GUNS


    ATF has received numerous inquiries regarding wallet guns and wallet holsters. As defined in section 5845(e) of the National Firearms Act (NFA), the term “any other weapon” includes certain concealable weapons. Various types of disguised weapons such as cane guns, belt buckle guns, and briefcase guns (with remote control firing mechanisms) fall within the “any other weapon” category. It is unlawfil to make, possess, or transfer such firearms without complying with the provisions of the NFA.


    During the 1970’s, ATF determined that various small handguns combined with certain “wallet holsters” fall into the “any other weapon” category and are subject to the provisions of the NFA. These wallet holsters are generally rectangular in shape, are designed to disguise the appearance of the handgun, and are designed to allow the weapon to be fired while it is contained within the wallet. The handgun combined with the wallet holster constitutes an NFA firearm.

    A conventional pistol or revolver which is possessed without the wallet holster would not be an NFA firearm. A wallet holster alone is not subject to NFA controls and cannot be registered or transferred a- a firearm. Firearms contained in conventional holsters, trouser pockets, purses, gun cases, or various other forms of carrying cases have not been determined to fall within the definition of an “any other weapon,” even though it maybe possible to discharge a firearm while it is carried in such a manner. In order for an individual to lawfully “make” a wallet gun, that is to say, acquire both the handgun and the wallet holster, the person must first submit an Application to Make and Register a Firearm (ATF Form 1), pay a $200.00 making tmq and receive approval of the application. The serial number appearing on the handgun should be used to register the firearm. Transfer of a wallet gun requires an approved transfer application and payment of a $5 transfer tax. A transfer will not be approved unless the wallet gun has been registered to the transferor.

    Mere sale or possession of the wallet holster without the handgun is not a violation of the NFA. However, 18 U.S.C. section 2 provides that a person who aids or abets another person in the commission of an offense is also responsible for the offense. Therefore, sale or distribution of a wallet holster with knowledge that it will be used to make an unregistered NFA firearm may also place the seller or distributor of the holster in violation of the NFA.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Son_of_Perdition's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    SW , Washington, USA
    Posts
    166

    Post imported post

    G20, good to know. So it is possible, but not simple.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Covington, WA & Keenesburg, CO
    Posts
    566

    Post imported post

    Notice that the linked story took place in Wisconsin, where a concealed pistol of any type (back-up, primary, whatever) is illegal. If the victim of this robbery wanted to protect himself with a gun he had to open carry by law.

    MD



  15. #15
    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Mercer Island, Washington, USA
    Posts
    922

    Post imported post

    Good reason to keep a hidden backup... when the guy takes your other gun... and is now burdened with two guns or looks away at all... you unload your other gun into him.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0D78JtxmqI

    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    57

    Post imported post

    Son_of_Perdition wrote:
    1245A Defender wrote:
    i think there is a law against "wallet guns",, even with a CPL...
    That's interesting. However, I didn't mean to imply that the wallet was a gun or that the gun was concealed in an actual wallet. Only that a holster for a vary small gun looks square and proportionally shaped like a wallet but in no way have any wallet like paraphernalia in it. Such as money, licence or credit cards. I thought that there wasn't a legal holster definition in regards to shape or size. But I could be wrong.
    DeSantis Nemesis is about as close as you can get.


  17. #17
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Marysville, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,522

    Post imported post

    Not much info in the article. It could have also been a gang member, who's task was to have to rob an armed citizen cause there is more involved.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

  18. #18
    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Kitsap County
    Posts
    872

    Post imported post

    60% of criminals won't bother people if they know they are armed, that still leaves 40% who might still be braven to try this.
    [/quote]
    Got me thinking about that statistic. Is that a real statistic from some were? A actual study on this would be interesting
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,666

    Post imported post

    fire suppressor wrote:
    60% of criminals won't bother people if they know they are armed, that still leaves 40% who might still be braven to try this.
    Got me thinking about that statistic. Is that a real statistic from some were? A actual study on this would be interesting[/quote]


    http://www.nraila.org/issues/articles/read.aspx?id=117

    I believe the number is actually higher. Yes they surveyed prisoners on armed/unarmed victims.
    Live Free or Die!

  20. #20
    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Kitsap County
    Posts
    872

    Post imported post

    "Fifty-six percent of the felons surveyed agreed that "A criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun;" 74% agreed that "One reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot." A 57% majority agreed that "Most criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police."

    Thank you for sharing that with with me gogodogs it was a fascinating read
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Kent, Washington, USA
    Posts
    398

    Post imported post

    Son_of_Perdition wrote:
    Hum?

    Thinking out loud here... I wonderif a person could make a holster that looks like a wallet that completely conceals a little Kel Tec or derringer .45 ACP?If you were to be robed youcould pull out your wallet/Gun and put one threw their eye. The bad guy wouldn't be the wiser. He would just think you were going to give him your wallet?
    There are dozens of companies that make and sell pocket-holsters for firearms like the one in the picture shown earlier. They are as common as spit. Google "Pocket Holster" and you will find a million of them.

    The trick is not to purchase or modify a holster in a manner that allows you to fire the gun without removing it completely from the holster.

    For instance, if you took the DeSantis shown above and cut a hole for your finger to go through to allow you to pull the trigger you have just committed a felony. You don't even have to put the gun in it, just possessing it would be illegal. It doesn't even matter how well it works either, even if it means the gun would jam when you pulled the trigger and therefore fire only one time, it is still an illegal "All other weapons" (AOW) weapon.

    Other than that though, they are quite popular and common. I have one myself for my Kel-tec P32.

  22. #22
    Regular Member skiingislife725's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Lake Stevens, WA
    Posts
    400

    Post imported post

    On the topic of wallet guns, there are a couple of manufacturers that claim that the ATF classifies their holster as a modified grip and not an AOW. http://artofthehide.com/ is one of the companies. I don't think it's as safe as a Desantis Nemesis though; on top of having a crappy grip on the gun. The Nemesis looks like it'd still print like a wallet, which is the idea anyways.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •