Lakewood Police and Open Carry

imported post

I just arrived home from Belmar, where I was happily OC'ing my Hi Point .40 JC.

I decided to catch a bus home (I work for the local FD and have the privilege of free rides on all public transit, so long as i flash my badge). While I was waiting for one of the final buses that would drop me off in front of my apartment complex, I noticed an abandoned building wasn't so abandoned if you know what I mean ;-) (a vagrant was squatting in an old home). Anyways, i have an obligation to notify PD of any and all illegal activity I observe on or off duty, so I called the police.

I did what any good OC'er who anticipates police contact would do and notified dispatch that I was carrying a loaded firearm. They did not so much as ask my name. They sent three officers to my location. When the first officer approached I held my hands in the air to show them i was not going to reach for my piece. i allowed the officer to approach (she did not know I have an employment with FD, we are in different jurisdictions) and I did not show her my badge or department ID. I asked if she wanted or needed to take possession of my sidearm for her own safety. her response was" I don't care, just don't reach for it" and turned her back! NO ID CHECK OR EVEN SO MUCH AS ASKING MY NAME!

She then searched the premesis, found the vagrant and made them move on!

As she was leaving, she did not even ask for ID or anything. i decided to walk happily home with my gun, knowing that that OC encounter with Lakewood PD shows that as long as you're respectful and mindful of the officer and their authority, you will not be hassled for exercising your OC rights.

Has anyone else had a similiar situation? Let me know!

imported post

I did what any good OC'er who anticipates police contact would do and notified dispatch that I was carrying a loaded firearm.

Since when did that become a good thing for an OCer to do?

imported post

Working for the FD, I know that any information we have before a call is good information. In our case, especially with medical calls this can be important.

For the officer who responded, knowing that they were driving into a situation where a firearm was present allowed them to both mentally and physically prepare themselves. knowing before hand was a lot better than driving up to a scene and seeing a gun on someone's hip! (or worse, pointed at them!)

imported post

I am conflicted on this.

On one hand letting LE know you are armed before they get there may put them at ease and the encounter may go more smoothly.

On the other hand telling LE we are armed says there is something strange or abnormal about our activity. Would we tell dispatch that we had a 3" Spyderco clipped to our right jeans pocket or had an Android Cell phone OC at 3oclock weak side?


I just don't know.

imported post

OFFICER SAFETY = MY SAFETY.

by identifying myself as carrying a loaded gun before the officer arrived, I allowed dispatch to relay that information to them. This allowed the officer to make decisions that could save their life while on scene. By allowing the officer to know that my gun was on scene, I allowed them to be prepared with specific instructions for me on how to handle my firearm (see original post where I asked if they would like to take possession for their OWN safety) If they know I have it, they can defend against it.

imported post

wthornton0206 wrote:

OFFICER SAFETY = MY SAFETY.

by identifying myself as carrying a loaded gun before the officer arrived, I allowed dispatch to relay that information to them. This allowed the officer to make decisions that could save their life while on scene. By allowing the officer to know that my gun was on scene, I allowed them to be prepared with specific instructions for me on how to handle my firearm (see original post where I asked if they would like to take possession for their OWN safety) If they know I have it, they can defend against it.

Click to expand...

Why does the officer have to defend themselves against your weapon? Are you planning on using it against the officer or is yours one of those evil guns that springs from the holster and starts spitting lead on its own?

How is officer safety compromised by a LAC's HOLSTERED defensive firearm?

imported post

I'll have to agree with Kingfish here. While you didn't necessarily handle the situation improperly, I don't think that there is a need to inform the responding officers of anything. You did a service to the community and that does not give them grounds to ask questions about your lawfully carried, safely holstered firearm. I personally have a tendency to dig in my heels with LE for a variety of reasons, but mainly I feel that many of them overstep their authoritative bounds too often and shouldn't be allowed to do so and the only way to stop them from doing it is to be a pain in their backside. I understand that this isn't always the answer and when I have a nice cop talk to me I'm courteous right back. They have to start understanding that it is a part of everyday life for many people and that they don't have a reason to be fearful or even just act differently towards an OCer than they would an unarmed citizen (or one that they believe is unarmed).

Just my opinion on this subject and probably worth less than what you paid for it.

imported post

Not to be rude here, but open carrying of a loaded firearm on public transportation is a class 6 felony. But I don't know if working for the FD allows you and if it does ignore me.

[align=JUSTIFY]18-9-118. Firearms, explosives, or incendiary devices in facilities of public transportation.[/align]


[align=JUSTIFY]A person commits a class 6 felony if, without legal authority, he has any loaded firearm or explosive or incendiary device, as defined in section[/align] 9-7-103, C.R.S., in his possession in, or carries, brings, or causes to be carried or brought any of such items into, any facility of public transportation, as defined in section 18-9-115 (4).
[align=JUSTIFY] Source: L. 77: Entire section added, p. 976, § 7, effective June 29. L. 89: Entire section amended, p. 841, § 89, effective July 1.[/align]

imported post

you are correct!

imported post

I just started openly carrying when and where I can so I'm notoverly sure about open carrying but I believe my CCW is my "legal authority."

imported post

I don't think I was clear on the subject. the officer would not have to worry about ME using the firearm or for that matter anyone who probably belongs to this forum, but it does make it present in their minds that firearms ARE on scene, not firearms COULD POTENTIALLY BE on scene.

As far as open carrying of firearms on public transportation, I have received authorized training from the PD Academy that allows me to carry on all rigs at work as well as having my department ID marked as such.

imported post

Not to be rude here, but open carrying of a loaded firearm on public transportation is a class 6 felony

Click to expand...

Just curious, if you had a concealed permit and a concealed handgun would it override that statute since:

18-12-214. Authority granted by permit - carrying restrictions.

(1) (a) A permit to carry a concealed handgun authorizes the permittee to carry a concealed handgun in all areas of the state, except as specifically limited in this section.

The section doesn't mention public transportation. If so, it's kind of funny that a few millimeters of cloth would be the difference between being legal and a felony.

imported post

WThornton; I'm glad you've shared the same experience I have in Lakewood. I am a resident and I open carry. It's a non-issue here in this city. The officers are extremely well trained- every single one of them- and you'll basically never even get a MWAG call in Lakewood. The police basically notify that OC is legal and move on.

About carrying your loaded Open Carried handgun on the bus- Look into that. Concealed is one thing but Open Carry with a CHP is still different territory for the bus.

imported post

wthornton0206 wrote:

Has anyone else had a similiar situation? Let me know!

Click to expand...

Yes, but not in Lakewood.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=28559&forum_id=13

As for notifying dispatch, I agree with you. The last thing you need is a LEO showing up with half information and thinkingYOU'RE the vagrant and oh, great, now you're armed. Though, giving them your description would sub for notifying them of your weapon. In fact, I think giving them your description is probably MORE pertinent info than thatyou're armed.

A decade or so ago, I was walking by the 30th and Downing station in Denver. There were some thugs harrassing the black passengers waiting for the bus andyelling racist epithetstrying to start a fight. I made my way aroundto the pay phone and called 911 and gave the descriptions. Particularly of theone wearing a grey tshirt andjeans armed with what looked like a stick. I hung up the phone and looked down at the rolled up paper in my hand and realized I just gave the dispatcher MY description.

The LEO arrived and I walked over to them to give more info on what happened after I hung up. And ALSO so I didn't get a mistaken ID on me. I gave the LEO my statement and he even said, "Yeah, that's pretty much YOUR description."I smiled and agreed and gave him some moredetails.

Asking if she needed you to disarm for her safety, that was probably a bit much.If I were the LEO I'd be thinking, "Yes, I see you have a gun. Pretty. Now shaddup about it so I can deal with this situation and get on with my day?" Look at it this way. When you get called on an FD call, how do you feel about the neighbor who called it in rushing up to you with the hose hooked up to her spigot and asking "Do you need some extra water?"


ETA: That was a fun 911 call for other reasons.

"911, what is your emergency?"

"I'm at the 30th and Downing bus station and there's <situation+descriptions>."

"And where is this happening?"

"At the 30th and Downing station."

"Is there an address?"

"THIRTIETH and DOWNing. It's a bus station. It's anopen air lot and takes up the entire block."

"Is there a major landmark?"


"Yes, the BUS station. There is a light rail stand there. I'm pretty sure the officer can find it...."

imported post

mahkagari wrote:

ETA: That was a fun 911 call for other reasons.

"911, what is your emergency?"

"I'm at the 30th and Downing bus station and there's <situation+descriptions>."

"And where is this happening?"

"At the 30th and Downing station."

"Is there an address?"

"THIRTIETH and DOWNing. It's a bus station. It's anopen air lot and takes up the entire block."

"Is there a major landmark?"


"Yes, the BUS station. There is a light rail stand there. I'm pretty sure the officer can find it...."

Click to expand...

thats exactly how the converstion goes when i call a cab downtown.