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  1. #1
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    Hey has anyone seen this book yet? We just published it. It is geared toward concealed weapon permit holders. It is a compilation of all the self-defense laws in every state.

    I want to answer questions and get feedback on this book. So if anyone has any questions regarding the Castle Doctrine in any state or the duty to retreat, Battered Women Syndrome. Lets talk about it and how this book does at setting myths to rest.

    Here is a link to where you can find the book
    http://www.amazon.com/Defense-States...0678812&sr=8-1

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    if nothing else,id buy it for the cover...and have a giant poster made out of it.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    cabbitone wrote:
    The cover definitely catches the eye.
    That it does.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    well you dont need to buy the book to get the image for a poster..
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Thanks guys

    We chose the cover for that reason. We haven't made posters yet but why not right?

    I was also hoping that some one would have questions regarding self-defense laws. This book gives simple explainations for self-defense laws in EVERY state for topics like:

    The Castle Doctrine (What are some of the legal traps for using force against an intruder in your home?)
    The Duty to Retreat (Does your state require you to retreat before you use force when faced with a threat?)
    Civil liability and using force in self-defense
    Self-defense and Battered Women Syndrome (how the rules can change)

    If there are any questions regarding these topics I want to help you guys find some answers.

    But thanks for the feedback thus far.

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    gwpublishinginc wrote:
    Thanks guys

    We chose the cover for that reason. We haven't made posters yet but why not right?

    I was also hoping that some one would have questions regarding self-defense laws. This book gives simple explainations for self-defense laws in EVERY state for topics like:

    The Castle Doctrine (What are some of the legal traps for using force against an intruder in your home?)
    The Duty to Retreat (Does your state require you to retreat before you use force when faced with a threat?)
    Civil liability and using force in self-defense
    Self-defense and Battered Women Syndrome (how the rules can change)

    If there are any questions regarding these topics I want to help you guys find some answers.

    But thanks for the feedback thus far.
    It is a book I am sure I will order this afternoon, again the image catches the readers eye. Not sure how you all came up with the idea for the image but good choice.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    Do you guys cover court cases in criminal and civil suits? And what that precedent means for the gun owners who defend themselves against the BG?
    Patrick Henry didn't say "Give me safety , or give me death". Liberty is what America is about.

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    It would be really nice if the members of the forum were given a code to enter into the "discount code" when ordering. A good discount never hurt anyone.

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    A book like this can be very useful, since many people new to self defense wouldn't even think of the questions. But for the most definitive ANSWERS, it is vital that each person go to the state AG and read the actual laws of their own state (or if they travel armed, the states they will be entering.)

    It is almost impossible for any book to remain current, even if they are totally accurate to start with. Laws change, and so does the case law used to instruct juries.

    Find out for yourself... straight from the horse's mouth, as it were.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

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    To XDSTEEL:

    We did. We included landmark case quotes on issues of self-defense throughout the book. Typically we did this only when there were no statutes on a particular self-defense issue/topic (one of which is civil liability) in a particular state. There is a whole chapter dedicated to civil liability and self-defense (Chapter 15).

    http://www.amazon.com/Defense-States...0678812&sr=8-1

    We researched each of following topics in EVERY STATE. If the state didn't have statutes on the issue then we looked for case law precedence or jury instructions. Chapters 3 and 4 are meant to help you understand the crucial terms of self-defense law and explain what these "template" topics mean.

    [Defense of Self and Others]
    [Non-Deadly Force]
    [Deadly Force]
    [Use of Deadly Force to Prevent Serious Felonies]
    [Defense of Third Persons]
    [Exceptions to Justifiable Self Defense]
    [Initial Aggressor]
    [Provocation]
    [Committing Felony or Unlawful Act]
    [Mutual Combat]
    [Exceptions to the Exceptions]
    [Withdraw and Communicate]
    [No Duty to Retreat- Generally]
    [Defense of Person(s)s in Special Places €“ (eg Home, Business, Occupied Vehicle)]
    [No Duty to Retreat From Special Places]
    [Co- Habitants; Co- Employees]
    [Presumption of Reasonableness in Special Places]
    [Reckless Injury to Innocent Third Parties]
    [Civil Liability]
    [Defense of Property]
    [Helpful Definitions Relating to this State€™s Self-Defense Statutes]

    I don't want to spill anymore beans. I hope this helps. This book is two years of research compiled and organized to help and assist the common person understand what kind of legal traps are out there.

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    kdt1970 wrote:
    It would be really nice if the members of the forum were given a code to enter into the "discount code" when ordering. A good discount never hurt anyone.
    If you live in Utah, you can avoid shipping cost by going to one of our retailers.

    http://www.firearmslaw.com/author-retailers.html

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    Does the book cover only statutes? Or, does it also provide court opinion quotes with citations?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Does the book cover only statutes?* Or, does it also provide court opinion quotes with citations?
    It provides both and more. That is, statutes, landmark court case quotes, or pattern/court approved jury instructions. Here is an example:

    Lets take the duty to retreat. Common law rule is that one retreat to "the wall" before resorting to deadly force. Many states have upheld this common law rule in their statutes or in land mark cases. Other states have not and in fact have adopted a "stand your ground" statute or case ruling. These "stand your ground" laws have also been called "no duty to retreat laws," "make my laws" etc. Not to be confused with the Castle Doctrine (which is another topic we researched for every state). Note: language in the brackets is our commentary and will appear read in the book.

    So here's what it will look like, the topic "duty to retreat" in every form:

    Where we have found an answer to it (the duty to retreat or not before using deadly force) statutorily.

    Alabama
    [ No Duty to Retreat – Generally ]
    ALA. CODE § 13A-3-23 (b).
    . . .
    (b) A person who is justified under subsection (a) in using physical force, including deadly physical force, and who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and is in any place where he or she has the right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground.
    [ This no-retreat provision was added in 2006. Before that, in any place besides your home, you had to retreat (if it could be done safely) before you could use a deadly weapon to defend yourself. Because it’s so new, we haven’t found any case law that interprets it. Under the new law, you have no duty to retreat if you are in a place you have a legal right to be and are otherwise acting lawfully. Florida passed a similar law a few years ago and it received national media attention as the “Make-My-Day” law, named after a great line in the Clint Eastwood movie Sudden Impact. States like Utah and Texas have had such a law for years without blood running in the streets. Such laws act as a deterrent to hoodlums and muggers to leave law-abiding citizens alone. ]


    Where we could not find it statutorily (meaning that particular state doesn't clarify the topic statutorily) we've included case law:

    Wyoming

    [ Duty to Retreat – Generally – Yes ]

    “We have stated that the law in Wyoming requires that, prior to resorting to deadly force, a defendant has a duty to pursue reasonable alternatives under the circumstances, and that among those reasonable alternatives may be the duty to retreat.” Baier v. State, 891 P.2d 754 (Wyo. 1995).
    [ Wyoming juries can consider retreat as a reasonable alternative to using deadly force. Unless you are in your own home, if you can do so without a significant risk of being injured, always retreat before using deadly force. ]

    And finally court approved jury instruction:

    Oklahoma

    [ No Duty to Retreat – Generally ]
    OUJI-CR 8-52 – DEFENSE OF SELF-DEFENSE – NO DUTY TO RETREAT
    A person who was not the aggressor or did not provoke another with intent to cause an altercation or did not voluntarily enter into mutual combat has no duty to retreat, but may stand firm and use the right of self-defense.
    [ If you are completely innocent, you have no duty to retreat before using force in self-defense. However, as explained above, you must retreat if you started a fight, agreed to fight, or provoked a fight. You must also retreat if you were trespassing when attacked. See jury instructions below. ]

    For a better glimpse at what this material will look like in the book go to the link and look at some of the different states.
    http://www.firearmslaw.com/content/s...t-standard.pdf

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    Thank you.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Just to let you guys know. Mitch just appeared on Tom Greshem's Gun Talk Radio, the only nationally syndicated radio talk show about firearms, shooting and gun rights.

    http://www.guntalk.com/site.php

    He discussion the book and some of the issues in it on the show. To hear the segment of the show go to:

    http://guntalk.libsyn.com/guntalk_2010_06_20_part_c

  16. #16
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    Geared toward Concealed Carry?

    This site is dedicated to Open Carry.

    I am curious how self defense law changes for CC vs OC.

    Are we held to different standards in a defensive shoot?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    Are we held to different standards in a defensive shoot?

    That, dear friend, is the $1,000,000 question...

    Since we have no accounts of an OCer having to use lethal force yet, and there have therefore been no court cases to examine this question, the quick and dirty answer is "nobody knows"...

    However, State Self Defense laws are, to my knowledge NOT limited to CC. The Self Defense laws, Justifiable use of lethal force laws, and "where and when you can discharge a firearm" laws are pretty clear in most states, and in most states the statutes do NOT differentiate between CC and OC...

    But without an OC-related self-defense incident, it's still a little "up in the air" because you NEVER know how the courts will go.

    Personally, I find this lack of case law history with regards to OC to be the BIGGEST justification for OC. There is a TON of case law regarding CC-related SD shootings. None for OC-related incidents. You do the math...

    That tells me that CCers end up getting attacked a LOT more than OCers, and end up having to use lethal force a LOT more than OCers.

    OC is just a more peace-loving way to carry, because the case law shows that if you OC, you are less likely to be attacked and less likely to have to use lethal force. End of discussion...

    The only OC-related lawsuits I'm aware of where people are inured or killed are when some overzealous, color-of-law-weilding LEO decides to put some unfortunate OCer "in his place". And I think we know how THOSE usually pan out... Cha-ching for the OCer...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 07-20-2010 at 06:52 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Since we have no accounts of an OCer having to use lethal force yet
    Here's one:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=golden+market
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  19. #19
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Yea sort of

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The attack was not directed at the OCer. He just happened to be there. The assailant didn't know a MWAG was on scene. Not sure its the same thing.
    Last edited by simmonsjoe; 07-20-2010 at 11:23 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    The attack was not directed at the OCer. He just happened to be there. The assailant didn't know a MWAG was on scene. Not sure its the same thing.
    Not truly apples and apples, that is true. The event did not occur with BG having advance knowledge that there was an armed OCer present.

    It is a case though that, while OC did not prevent the crime, it did stop the BG from doing further damage, OCer did use lethal force, OCer was not treated any differently by the authorities because he was OCing than if he had been CCing.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Not truly apples and apples, that is true. The event did not occur with BG having advance knowledge that there was an armed OCer present.

    It is a case though that, while OC did not prevent the crime, it did stop the BG from doing further damage, OCer did use lethal force, OCer was not treated any differently by the authorities because he was OCing than if he had been CCing.
    We have that case from last year or the year before where the OCDO forum member was attacked from behind as he loaded (groceries?) in his car after dark. Turned and shot one of two robbers. I cannot recall if he was no-billed by the grand-jury or if the prosecutor just decided not to pursue charges. I do recall that it took a while to settle out. He may have been CCing at the time.
    Last edited by Citizen; 07-21-2010 at 01:42 AM.

  22. #22
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    Common sense says we should have a lower bar. After all anyone who would attack
    someone who obviously has a gun is definitely very unstable and dangerous.
    But unless you are politically connected don't bet on it, keep your mouth shut.

    I remember a Texas incident where he was OC'ing his shotgun when the two "Displaced Foreign Travelers"
    attacked him in his yard. The undercover cops comment of "I wasn't going out there, and be mistaken for one of them" ROTFL

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