• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

The DISCLOSE Act and the NRA: Some Bad News, H. A. von Spakovsky on NationalReview.com

Doug Huffman

Banned
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,180
Location
Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
imported post

The Wall Street Journal

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704009804575308470831235224.html

[Excerpt] The National Rifle Association is suffering a sudden onset of amnesia this week, as the gun lobby cuts a deal to exempt itself from the latest Congressional attempt to repeal the First Amendment. NRA members may soon regret the organization's bid to ingratiate itself with Democrats at the expense of its longtime free-speech allies.

The campaign finance bill, sponsored by Senator Chuck Schumer and Representative Chris Van Hollen, is the Democratic response to the Supreme Court's January decision in Citizens United v. FEC, which restored the First Amendment right of corporations, unions and nonprofits to make independent campaign expenditures. At ...
 

The Donkey

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2006
Messages
1,114
Location
Northern Virginia
imported post

I have not readthe ever changinglegislation, but the summary of what it is supposed to accomplish. Here are the major points:

1. Enhance Disclaimers
Make CEOs and other leaders take responsibility for their ads.

2. Enhance Disclosures
It is time to follow the money.

3. Prevent Foreign Influence
Foreign countries and entities should not be determining the outcome of our elections.

4. Shareholder/Member Disclosure
We should allow shareholders and members to know where money goes.

5. Prevent Government Contractors from Spending
Taxpayer money should not be spent on political ads.

6. Provide the Lowest Unit Rate for Candidates and Parties
Special interests should not drown out the voices of the people.

7. Tighten Coordination Rules
Corporations should not be able to “sponsor” a candidate.

Generally, I support these points, and don't believe that they pose a threat to free speech. The NRA carve out bothers me.

Would be interested in hearing your viewson the rest of the legislation.
 

AtackDuck

Regular Member
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
214
Location
King George, Virginia, USA
imported post

I just called the NRA-ILA and asked who worked on the DISCLOSE Act compromise and who authorized the compromise. The very nice lady on the phone almost went into "the spiel" of NRA's spin on the subject before I cut her off and further clarified my questions, explaining that someone or some group of people at the NRA had to be responsible for the decision to compromise and throw everyone else under the bus. Simply asked: who are they. She admitted she did not know but would find out and call me back.

I really want to know who the enemy is. Who to go after and in the words of that great orator -- "...whose ass to kick."

It is indeed time to clean our congressional house and it appears, it isalsotime to clean house at the NRA.
 

AtackDuck

Regular Member
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
214
Location
King George, Virginia, USA
imported post

Thinking on the many organizations that will be affected by this law, I realized the Brady Bunch, VPC and their ilk must reallybe sweating bullets (pun intended), if the law requires release of membership lists and donors.:what:

Law of unintended consequences?:banghead:
 

Straight_Shooter

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
266
Location
, Iowa, USA
imported post

AtackDuck wrote:
She admitted she did not know but would find out and call me back.

I really want to know who the enemy is. Who to go after and in the words of that great orator -- "...whose ass to kick."

It is indeed time to clean our congressional house and it appears, it isalsotime to clean house at the NRA.
Let us know how that works out for you (the NRA calling you back I mean) . . . . then maybe the rest of us can call too.

I left the NRA when they threw out Neal Knox in deference to Wayne La Pierre . . . that guy is nothing more than a huckster growing rich from the misplaced trust of American gun owners . . .
 

streetdoc

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Messages
341
Location
Unionville, Virginia, USA
imported post

Called the NRAILA this morning, took about 20 minutes to get through to a person, he didn't want to hear about my dissatisfaction with the NRA selling us out to protect themselves but not the Second Amendment, backdoor deals. So, I told that they can cancel my membership, they will never get another dime from me. NRA Headquarters didn't want to hear about the sell-out either and to cancel my membership I need to do it in writing.
 

crstrode

New member
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Messages
10
Location
Cheney, WA
imported post

HR 5175 READ THE LEGISLATION! Critics should take the time to actually READ THE LEGISLATION!

This is Deja vu all over again - Just like the boneheads that have not read the Obamacare legislation, or the Arizona Immigration law.

The NRA is being criticized for seeking to have exemptions written into the so-called DISCLOSE Act. The DISCLOSE Act, an acronym for the egregiously misnamed “Democracy Is Strengthened by Casting Light On Spending in Elections Act”

Criticism of the NRA is off the mark.
The NRA is right on target with this one.

Read More: http://badgerlakeobserver.blogspot.com/2010/06/hr-5175-read-legislation.html
 

SlackwareRobert

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2008
Messages
1,338
Location
Alabama, ,
imported post

crstrode wrote:
HR 5175 READ THE LEGISLATION! Critics should take the time to actually READ THE LEGISLATION!

This is Deja vu all over again - Just like the boneheads that have not read the Obamacare legislation, or the Arizona Immigration law.

The NRA is being criticized for seeking to have exemptions written into the so-called DISCLOSE Act. The DISCLOSE Act, an acronym for the egregiously misnamed “Democracy Is Strengthened by Casting Light On Spending in Elections Act”

Criticism of the NRA is off the mark.
The NRA is right on target with this one.

Read More: http://badgerlakeobserver.blogspot.com/2010/06/hr-5175-read-legislation.html
Please explain in more detail how getting yourself exempt from a law make the
law good for everyone else? Any law that lets the crooks in government
decide speach is illegal is BAD! Remember that media cannot censor campaign
ads, and yet they outright refused to sell Ross Perot air time for his. And the
NRA is OK with giving them more cover to keep the truth from getting out.

Is anyone else getting nra calls? I keep telling them when hell freezes over,
they can talk about their support of clintons gun ban till they are blue in the face.
I support freedom, not criminal enterprises who think themselves above the law.
 
T

TWG2A

Guest
imported post

Temporary Good News On The DISCLOSE Act5175




“Gun Owners of America has been one of the key players in opposing the DISCLOSE Act.” – Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA)
Friday, June 18, 2010


Thank you all for your hard work. The DISCLOSE Act is on the ropes!

Here’s what The Washington Post reported this morning:


One of President Obama’s top legislative priorities is in serious doubt after top House Democrats’ attempt to satisfy the National Rifle Association backfired badly.
The Post says that “top Democrats abandoned plans for a Friday vote in the House” on the DISCLOSE Act after several Representatives and organizations “rose up against the deal with the NRA.”

Interestingly, the Post also reported that the intended beneficiaries of the deal — that is, the Blue Dog Democrats who were expected to drop their opposition to the DISCLOSE Act once the NRA dropped theirs — were still “spooked” by public resistance to the bill.

You can pat yourselves on the back knowing that you were a huge part of the outpouring of opposition that was generated this week. You played a big role in “spooking” the politicians who are going to be soliciting your votes in November.

You should know that the sponsors of the bill are still looking for ways to resuscitate the legislation, so GOA will continue to keep you abreast of further developments.

But for now, enjoy the victory and have a great weekend!

[FROM THE GOA E ALERT EMAIL]
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
imported post

The NRA spoke out against this in May, effectively placing it on hold then.

The Democrats handed the NRA an exemption; effectively making this unpassable. Pelosi tabled it last night.


The NRA did what they should have done. They spoke against this bill which would have damaged their ability to effectively support the goals of their membership. Further, they understood that the Democrats provided them the ability to do just that. Now the bill is on hold. Seems to me a good outcome.




SlackwareRobert wrote:
crstrode wrote:
HR 5175 READ THE LEGISLATION! Critics should take the time to actually READ THE LEGISLATION!

This is Deja vu all over again - Just like the boneheads that have not read the Obamacare legislation, or the Arizona Immigration law.

The NRA is being criticized for seeking to have exemptions written into the so-called DISCLOSE Act. The DISCLOSE Act, an acronym for the egregiously misnamed “Democracy Is Strengthened by Casting Light On Spending in Elections Act”

Criticism of the NRA is off the mark.
The NRA is right on target with this one.

Read More: http://badgerlakeobserver.blogspot.com/2010/06/hr-5175-read-legislation.html
Please explain in more detail how getting yourself exempt from a law make the
law good for everyone else? Any law that lets the crooks in government
decide speach is illegal is BAD! Remember that media cannot censor campaign
ads, and yet they outright refused to sell Ross Perot air time for his. And the
NRA is OK with giving them more cover to keep the truth from getting out.

Is anyone else getting nra calls? I keep telling them when hell freezes over,
they can talk about their support of clintons gun ban till they are blue in the face.
I support freedom, not criminal enterprises who think themselves above the law.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
imported post

wrightme wrote:
The NRA spoke out against this in May, effectively placing it on hold then.

The Democrats handed the NRA an exemption; effectively making this unpassable. Pelosi tabled it last night.


The NRA did what they should have done. They spoke against this bill which would have damaged their ability to effectively support the goals of their membership. Further, they understood that the Democrats provided them the ability to do just that. Now the bill is on hold. Seems to me a good outcome.
Did the NRA express support, remove their disapproval, or not react (leaving their disapproval in place) after the change in the bill that exempted them from its provisions?
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
imported post

eye95 wrote:
wrightme wrote:
The NRA spoke out against this in May, effectively placing it on hold then.

The Democrats handed the NRA an exemption; effectively making this unpassable. Pelosi tabled it last night.


The NRA did what they should have done. They spoke against this bill which would have damaged their ability to effectively support the goals of their membership. Further, they understood that the Democrats provided them the ability to do just that. Now the bill is on hold. Seems to me a good outcome.
Did the NRA express support, remove their disapproval, or not react (leaving their disapproval in place) after the change in the bill that exempted them from its provisions?
It really is irrelevant. It is not a 2nd Amendment issue.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
imported post

wrightme wrote:
eye95 wrote:
wrightme wrote:
The NRA spoke out against this in May, effectively placing it on hold then.

The Democrats handed the NRA an exemption; effectively making this unpassable. Pelosi tabled it last night.


The NRA did what they should have done. They spoke against this bill which would have damaged their ability to effectively support the goals of their membership. Further, they understood that the Democrats provided them the ability to do just that. Now the bill is on hold. Seems to me a good outcome.
Did the NRA express support, remove their disapproval, or not react (leaving their disapproval in place) after the change in the bill that exempted them from its provisions?
It really is irrelevant. It is not a 2nd Amendment issue.
I think it's relevant. It goes to the character of the NRA. Are they willing to do anything to protect only their interests? Or, do they support the right thing, Knowing that, in the end, it will help their cause as well as other Liberty-seeking causes?
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
imported post

eye95 wrote:
wrightme wrote:
eye95 wrote:
wrightme wrote:
The NRA spoke out against this in May, effectively placing it on hold then.

The Democrats handed the NRA an exemption; effectively making this unpassable. Pelosi tabled it last night.


The NRA did what they should have done. They spoke against this bill which would have damaged their ability to effectively support the goals of their membership. Further, they understood that the Democrats provided them the ability to do just that. Now the bill is on hold. Seems to me a good outcome.
Did the NRA express support, remove their disapproval, or not react (leaving their disapproval in place) after the change in the bill that exempted them from its provisions?
It really is irrelevant. It is not a 2nd Amendment issue.
I think it's relevant. It goes to the character of the NRA. Are they willing to do anything to protect only their interests? Or, do they support the right thing, Knowing that, in the end, it will help their cause as well as other Liberty-seeking causes?
They DID the right thing. They focus on the 2nd Amendment. Do you think they should spend their political capital (and the dues and donations of NRA members) on non-2nd Amendment issues? Follow the ball. Why do other groups spend time bashing the NRA instead of focusing on the issues they were created to focus on?

The character of the NRA in this is exactly where it should be; focused on the 2nd Amendment wrt the membership of the NRA.


Now Pelosi tabled this bill because the Democrats provided an exemption for the NRA and other organizations of similar demographics.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
imported post

I'll put the question to the general board populace:

Did the NRA express support, remove their disapproval, or not react (leaving their disapproval in place) after the change in the bill that exempted them from its provisions?

(Please note: I am not looking for NRA-bashing, just a simple answer to a simple question. I am interested in the facts only. I'll make my own judgment.)
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
imported post

eye95 wrote:
I'll put the question to the general board populace:

Did the NRA express support, remove their disapproval, or not react (leaving their disapproval in place) after the change in the bill that exempted them from its provisions?

(Please note: I am not looking for NRA-bashing, just a simple answer to a simple question. I am interested in the facts only. I'll make my own judgment.)
Such information is readily available. Have you not seen it?


http://www.nraila.org/

NRA-ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox's Message on H.R. 5175

I appreciate the concerns that some NRA members have raised regarding the NRA's position on H.R. 5175, the "DISCLOSE Act". Regrettably, our position has been misstated by some and intentionally misrepresented by others. I hope you'll allow me to provide the proper context.

The U.S. Supreme Court's Citizens United decision was a significant victory for free speech and the Constitution. The NRA filed a strong brief in that case, which the Court specifically cited several times in its opinion. The DISCLOSE Act is an attempt to reverse that victory and that's why we told Congress we oppose it.
The NRA has never supported--nor would we ever support -- any version of this bill. Those who suggest otherwise are wrong.

The restrictions in this bill should not apply to anyone or to any organization. My job is to ensure they don't apply to the NRA and our members. Without the NRA, the Second Amendment will be lost and I will do everything in my power to prevent that.
We believe that any restriction on political speech is repugnant. But some of our critics believe we should put the Second Amendment at risk over a First Amendment principle to protect other organizations. That's easy to say--unless you have a sworn duty to protect the Second Amendment above all else, as I do.

The NRA is a single-issue organization made up of millions of individual members dedicated to protecting the Second Amendment. We do not represent the interests of other organizations. Nor do all groups fight all issues together. For example, we didn't support the U.S. Chamber of Commerce when it backed amnesty for tens of millions of illegal aliens and we did not join the Chamber in its support of President Obama's stimulus bill. And we've been in direct opposition when the Chamber has tried to restrict Second Amendment rights in publicly accessible parking lots.

Rather than focusing on opposing this bill, some have encouraged people to blame the NRA for this Congress's unconstitutional attack on free speech. That's a shame. If you oppose this bill, I hope you will contact your Member of Congress and Senators so they can hear from you.
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
imported post

[align=center]Response from David Keene, NRA First
Vice President, to DISCLOSE Act Criticism
[/align]
"As an NRA member, I am writing to express my outrage that the NRA would do a backroom deal with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to regulate and limit the First Amendment right to political free speech of other groups, while carving out an exemption for the NRA. Your unsavory and unprincipled deal with the Democratic leadership makes it likely that the House will now pass the DISCLOSE Act, H. R. 5175. Besides being unconstitutional, the DISCLOSE Act could have dire political consequences in the 2010 Congressional elections. The NRA’s leadership should be ashamed of selling out the interests of its members."
I am writing in response to your email to NRA Institute for Legislative Action Executive Director Chris Cox protesting what you term a "backroom" deal with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to "regulate and limit the First Amendment right to political free speech of other groups."

I have been an NRA Board member for some years and currently serve as NRA’s First Vice-President -- that you may know. What you may not know is that I have been in the forefront of the fight against liberal attempts to tilt the political playing field their way for decades through what they like to call campaign finance reform. This is a battle that began in the seventies when I put together the case that went to the United States Supreme Court known as Buckley v. Valeo. I was a vocal opponent of the so-called McCain-Feingold "reforms" that shackled groups like the NRA in recent years, and I have served as a First Amendment Fellow at Vanderbilt University’s Freedom Forum.
I can assure you that I would never countenance a "deal" of the sort you think the NRA made with Congress to further Democratic attempts to restrict political speech. I consider such restrictions to be not only repugnant, but blatantly unconstitutional, an opinion shared by NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre and Institute for Legislative Action Executive Director Chris Cox.
The so-called "DISCLOSE ACT" is a horrible piece of legislation designed to do exactly what you suggest. It would require advocacy groups to run a regulatory gauntlet designed to make it very difficult for many of them to play the role for which they were formed and is both bad policy and flies in the face of recent Supreme Court decisions.
But I’m afraid there’s more … particularly how it would affect the NRA. When you think of the NRA you no doubt think mostly about the NRA’s advocacy on Second Amendment issues, but the NRA also provides training to its members, law enforcement and military personnel, works with states, counties and private organizations to build ranges and runs competitive events such as those at Camp Perry in Ohio. Since Camp Perry is a military base, public monies go into range development and federal funds go to training military and police personnel, the NRA would be classed with government contractors and TARP recipients under the DISCLOSE ACT as originally written and effectively prohibited from engaging in any meaningful political activity.
In other words, this act as originally written by anti-gun legislators like New York Senator Chuck Schumer would have silenced the NRA …which would have been the death knell for the Second Amendment.
NRA has one major mission … to defend the right of its members and all Americans to keep & bear arms as guaranteed by the Second Amendment. Therefore, the NRA served notice on Congress that since the act threatened our very existence, we were prepared to do anything and everything that might be required to defeat it unless it was changed so that we could continue to represent the views of our members in the public arena. The letter, sent on May 26, was public. The NRA did not engage in back room shenanigans, but told Congressional leaders quite clearly that we would do whatever we needed to do to protect the rights of our members and our ability to defend the Second Amendment.
Last week Democratic leadership in the House capitulated by agreeing to exempt the NRA from the act – not in return for NRA support, but to avoid a political war that might cost them even more seats this fall.
I have to tell you that I never thought the Democrats would agree to this – not because they have much regard for constitutional rights – because I didn’t believe their left wing would allow it. The events since their capitulation convince me that their fear of NRA retaliation forced them to take steps that split their coalition and could easily doom the whole bill.
Consider this: on Thursday night, California Senator Diane Feinstein, one of the most anti-Second Amendment members of the Senate, announced that she wouldn’t support the DISCLOSE ACT if it exempted the NRA. By Friday some two-dozen left wing activist groups that had previously been pressing Congress to pass the bill announced that now they wanted it defeated.
The bottom line is that in refusing to risk its members’ rights and the very survival of the Second Amendment, the NRA has also made it less rather than more likely that support for this terrible legislation will collapse and the free speech rights of every one of us will benefit.
 
Top